This Suprised Me: Roine Stolt's The Flower King - MANIFESTO OF AN ALCHEMIST, Nov 2018

**LeFrog** · 12-07-2018

Originally Posted by SRS

Did they get equal time as Spock's? I saw pictures that showed both bands on stage for an encore as well.

Yes, both bands had roughly 90 minutes. Surprisingly, there appeared to be more people for The Flower Kings, the attendance seemed to decrease slightly after the intermission. I found it surprising because SB were officially headlining and in my opinion put on a much more punchy gig. I quite enjoy TFK but have always found them a bit boring live, with very little interaction with the audience. The fact that they played very few songs (because of their length) made their gig seem much shorter than Spock's (but looking at the start and end times they did have roughly the same length).

Unsually for Paris, the venue apparently had a 10:30 curfew which means that Ted Leonard asked for TFK to come back to the stage only to be told that the show was over. SB were almost rushed offstage, it was quite frustrating. So no encore with both bands onstage this time.

**JKL2000** · 12-10-2018

Originally Posted by LeFrog

I quite enjoy TFK but have always found them a bit boring live, with very little interaction with the audience.

I actually prefer them live to listening to the studio albums, though at this point it's been several years since I saw them live, but I did see them a pretty good number of times (starting with the Space Revolver tour). Live, I really liked just sort of letting the music wash over me.

I think you're right about not having enough audience interaction, though. Up to the band of course, but it did seem like there was a bit more when Tomas was in the band and he and Roine could joke around a bit.

**LeFrog** · 12-10-2018

Originally Posted by JKL2000

I actually prefer them live to listening to the studio albums, though at this point it's been several years since I saw them live, but I did see them a pretty good number of times (starting with the Space Revolver tour). Live, I really liked just sort of letting the music wash over me.

I think you're right about not having enough audience interaction, though. Up to the band of course, but it did seem like there was a bit more when Tomas was in the band and he and Roine could joke around a bit.

It's probably just me as I've seen a lot of people raving about the current tour, saying they've never seen them play so well and that they were so much better than SB. Guess I'll always be partial to the Beard. They just never disappoint whatever the lineup and there's something about the way they build their setlist that just works live.

**calyx** · 12-10-2018

The London gig yesterday was another fine performance. I didn’t think SB blew TFK off the stage in terms of stage presence as they had in Paris because for some reason Alan Morse seemed a bit removed and not as enthusiastic as he had been in Paris. There were curfew issues again but this time they made Hey Jude a priority and dropped Go The Way You Go, which wasn’t the most informed decision Prog-wise but made for a fun singalong. The full Truth Will Set You Free was again a highlight of the FK set. A strong evening of classic prog !

**LeFrog** · 12-10-2018

Originally Posted by calyx

The full Truth Will Set You Free was again a highlight of the FK set.

Technically it seems to me they didn't play the whole song although it was well over 20 minutes. It seems to me they cut what amounts to part 4. Maybe I dozed off but I don't remember a reprise of the main chorus in the latter part of the song like there should have been. But I'm just nitpicking.

Glad you agree with me about SB having so much more presence than TFK in Paris. I read reviews of the London gig that were mostly raving about TFK but you may have given part of the explanation.

**calyx** · 12-10-2018

Originally Posted by LeFrog

Technically it seems to me they didn't play the whole song although it was well over 20 minutes.

Well, there you go. It seemed more comprehensive than previous live versions from the 2012-14 tours (iirc), as opposed to the 2003 live version. It also seemed to both go by quite fast *and* more like 30 than 20 minutes, but I didn't time it...

**LeFrog** · 12-10-2018

Originally Posted by calyx

Well, there you go. It seemed more comprehensive than previous live versions from the 2012-14 tours (iirc), as opposed to the 2003 live version. It also seemed to both go by quite fast *and* more like 30 than 20 minutes, but I didn't time it...

Agreed. I tried to time it and it was somewhere between 20 and 30 minutes. It was much more than just an excerpt but I'm pretty sure it was missing a few sections before the concluding part.

**DTA** · 12-10-2018

I feel like The Flower Kings always did themselves a disservice live by not having a second keyboardist to fill out the sound. Their early albums had so many layers doing interesting things that when I hear those songs live, they sound empty and much less powerful.

**SRS** · 12-10-2018

Originally Posted by DTA

I feel like The Flower Kings always did themselves a disservice live by not having a second keyboardist to fill out the sound. Their early albums had so many layers doing interesting things that when I hear those songs live, they sound empty and much less powerful.

I think a 7 man XL Lineup like they had with Meet The Flower Kings works best. In that case it also had Daniel Gildenlöw and Hasse Brunisson. Brunisson adds a visual flare to their live performances and fleshes out the percussion section. Daniel added more guitar, keys, percussion as well as vocals (the 3 part harmonies with Hasse and Roine were great). That lineup really worked well live IMO. I know that they briefly brought along a second keyboardist/vocalist/guitarist Ola Heden for one live tour.

**JKL2000** · 12-10-2018

Originally Posted by SRS

I think a 7 man XL Lineup like they had with Meet The Flower Kings works best.

Don't forget the dancers!

**hFx** · 12-10-2018

Originally Posted by calyx

The London gig yesterday was another fine performance. I didn’t think SB blew TFK off the stage in terms of stage presence as they had in Paris because for some reason Alan Morse seemed a bit removed and not as enthusiastic as he had been in Paris. There were curfew issues again but this time they made Hey Jude a priority and dropped Go The Way You Go, which wasn’t the most informed decision Prog-wise but made for a fun singalong. The full Truth Will Set You Free was again a highlight of the FK set. A strong evening of classic prog !

The Stockholm gig on 1st December was a homerun for TFK - no wonder perhaps, in their "home arena". The band, especially Roine and Jonas, were terrific and there was a lot of audience interaction and conversations. SP were a bit off in the beginning, with Ted looking almost shy. I know some people in the audience were disappointed about SP and left early, though they did pick the pace up halfway trough the show. The Hey Jude encore was fun but totally whimsical

**DocProgger** · 12-10-2018

Any possibility this version of the FK come over to tour the States? I've seen them 4-5 times but its been awhile.

**miamiscot** · 12-11-2018

Originally Posted by DocProgger

Any possibility this version of the FK come over to tour the States? I've seen them 4-5 times but its been awhile.

Seems doubtful and that makes me sad. I've never seen Mr Stolt live...

**progmatist** · 12-11-2018

Originally Posted by LeFrog

Technically it seems to me they didn't play the whole song although it was well over 20 minutes. It seems to me they cut what amounts to part 4. Maybe I dozed off but I don't remember a reprise of the main chorus in the latter part of the song like there should have been. But I'm just nitpicking.

It's still better than just the last 7 minutes on the Instant Delivery DVD. Then again on that disc, it was the final encore. They couldn't very well play the whole thing, even if that would've been the prog thing to do.

**DarthVander** · 12-12-2018

I saw the gig in London as well. Enjoyed The Flower Kings more than I expected, and SB's set less than I expected, even though normally I'm a bigger fan of the latter (I find their output more consistently memorable than TFK's, who have a lot of stuff I love but also a ton of material that just goes past me without leaving any impression). I guess that's mainly due the songs performed. Loved hearing an almost full version of The Truth Will Set You Free and There Is More to This World. Stardust We Are is not one of my favourites but enjoyed it quite a bit. Shame we didn't get the full set they did on their South American tour which included I Am the Sun and The Flower King, was really hoping to hear those.

In contrast SB were fine, but as mentioned before a bit more subdued and less all out fun than usual. She Is Everything was the highlight for me. I was sure they only did 2 songs from the new album because they had to drop songs from the set, but looks like that's all they've been doing the whole tour which is quite surprising. Even if it is a shorter set than usual I would have thought they would prioritise the new stuff a bit more. They don't exactly come across as having a lot of faith in the new material this way.
While it's not one of my favourite albums I was still really looking forward to hearing Somebody's Home and Box of Spiders.
And of course Hey Jude in the encore while a nice way to include the TFK guys was a bit of a letdown after what already felt like a short set.

Still a fun gig, but definitely not as good as the other 3 times I've seen them since Ted joined. Oh and Mike Thorne is a monster drummer but of course vocally they are a lot weaker now than before.

**LeFrog** · 12-12-2018

Originally Posted by DarthVander

Oh and Mike Thorne is a monster drummer but of course vocally they are a lot weaker now than before.

Why do you consider them weaker vocally? Mike Thorne handles most of the backing vocals and was hired because he is a drummer who can sing, just like Nick and Jimmy before him. As for Ted, he's probably the best singer they ever had, from a technical standpoint. Is it just that you miss the time when it was Neal and Nick harmonizing together?

**DarthVander** · 12-12-2018

Why do you consider them weaker vocally? Mike Thorne handles most of the backing vocals and was hired because he is a drummer who can sing, just like Nick and Jimmy before him. As for Ted, he's probably the best singer they ever had, from a technical standpoint. Is it just that you miss the time when it was Neal and Nick harmonizing together?

I simply meant that Thorne (while a passable backing singer) is obviously nowhere near as good as NDV or Jimmy. They were incredibly lucky to have had not one, but two amazing drummers who also happened to be excellent singers. Compared to that I would say the current lineup (which may just last for this tour anyway as I think Thorne is not a full member - yet) is weaker on the vocal front.

Wasn't a knock on Ted - I was a big fan of him and Enchant long before he joined SB, though I have to admit these days at times I find his voice a bit too thin and strained sounding. Don't know if it's just age, or him having to sing Neal's and NDV's songs, whose voices to my ears have a warmer, fuller tone (while not having Ted's range of course).

**flatliner** · 12-12-2018

Getting back to the new album.....heard it for the first time last night on my drive home from work. Living in Atlanta, one has time to listen to an entire album almost daily (unfortunately). I really love the album, but to me, in the car, it has way to much bass in many parts, and not enough treble. Sounds almost like a towel is in front of every speaker. I had another cd, and it sounds just fine. Maybe it will sound much better on my home system. Am I the only one that’s noticed this? I also thought the same of The Sea Within. Seems like a lot of new releases don’t sound that great anymore. What’s happening here? Is mixing that hard?....other than this though, I think this is one of the better releases of the year....

**DarthVander** · 12-12-2018

What’s happening here? Is mixing that hard?

The people doing the mixing are getting older.

**flatliner** · 12-12-2018

So am I.....

**LeFrog** · 12-12-2018

Originally Posted by DarthVander

I simply meant that Thorne (while a passable backing singer) is obviously nowhere near as good as NDV or Jimmy. They were incredibly lucky to have had not one, but two amazing drummers who also happened to be excellent singers. Compared to that I would say the current lineup (which may just last for this tour anyway as I think Thorne is not a full member - yet) is weaker on the vocal front.

Wasn't a knock on Ted - I was a big fan of him and Enchant long before he joined SB, though I have to admit these days at times I find his voice a bit too thin and strained sounding. Don't know if it's just age, or him having to sing Neal's and NDV's songs, whose voices to my ears have a warmer, fuller tone (while not having Ted's range of course).

I think it's hard to judge of Thorne's ability as a backing vocalist in a live setting, unless you have prior knowledge of his work with Saga which is not my case. I thought he was doing a good job of it at the gig I saw, but the backing vocals will never be very up front in a live setting. The real test will be if he ever goes in the studio with them, I think.

**DocProgger** · 12-12-2018

I didn't even realize that Ted Leonard was lead singer of SB now, as I haven't followed them in awhile. I'm one who never really liked Leonard's vocal style. He was ok with Enchant when I saw them years ago at Nearfest, but I didn't rush to the merch table to snap up their albums. I just saw Enchant again at ProgStock, and I really didn't like their set--a lot of "rock star singer" stylings and posing. I enjoyed IZZ much more.

**DarthVander** · 12-13-2018

I think it's hard to judge of Thorne's ability as a backing vocalist in a live setting, unless you have prior knowledge of his work with Saga which is not my case. I thought he was doing a good job of it at the gig I saw, but the backing vocals will never be very up front in a live setting.

But that's true of NDV and Jimmy doing backing vocals live as well. And I still think they sounded better in the same situation. But anyway, I don't mean to come across as slagging off Mike Thorne, who did a great job. In any other band this wouldn't be an issue, and even with SB it's a minor one.