Good Morning from Northern Vermont!
Just finished listening to 'Aurora' by JLPonty. It seems as if I was focused, this listen, on the playing of Daryl Stuermer and hence this question for those who may know. Just how did Mr. Stuermer find his way into the Genesis camp? Perhaps well documented but either I have forgotten.... or just missed the story all together!
'Please Help' ~ 'Please Help'
Chris Buckley
From Wikipedia:
"In late 1977, Stuermer, on insistence of friend Alphonso Johnson, was recommended as a replacement for Steve Hackett to support Genesis for live performances. Johnson's audition was unsuccessful and put Stuermer's name forward.[6] Stuermer's only exposure to the band was when Ponty played him A Trick of the Tail, and a television clip showing Gabriel singing in costume.[5] A chance meeting with drummer Chester Thompson, who had replaced Bill Bruford as their touring drummer in 1976, convinced Stuermer to go for the audition. His audition with Rutherford took place in early 1978 in New York City, and landed the spot on the same day. He retained the role of lead guitarist and bass player with the band from 1978 to 1992: he also rejoined them for the 2007 Turn It On Again Tour."
Bill
I think that Chester Thompson, who had played with Zappa and Weather Report, had recommended Stuermer to the band because he was in tune with that more jazz fusiony stuff. I saw Ponty open for Renaissance on the 77 Novella tour, and little did I know at the time that Ponty's guitarist up on stage would be part of Genesis live a year later.
Edit--^^^beat me to it by a minute above, but I was in the general ballpark re Chester....
Last edited by DocProgger; 09-13-2018 at 04:09 PM.
Great player that was sadly out of his depth with Hackett's parts. No slight as very few, if any, could contend with that. Hackett was irreplaceable.
The Prog Corner
He only auditioned for Rutherford?? He was hired without auditioning for Tony and Phil?Originally Posted by Sputnik
I don't agree here at all. I thought he did a fine job with Hackett's parts. Played them well enough but also injected a little of his own personality.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
From what I remember reading, yes, he met with Rutherford who decided he could do it. I guess the others trusted him with the decision.
If memory serves - Gary Moore was offered the position and turned it down.
As fine a guitarist as Stuermer is I alway felt he was the wrong fit for the band.
I like Stuermer well enough and technically, he is probably a more accomplished guitarist than Hackett (if you disagree, I'm not going to argue the details... there is no need to quibble over who is the "better" guitarist) but by 2007, Stuermer's interpretation of the "Firth of Fifth" solo, among others, left me cold. I think Hackett's thin, keening, Frippian soaring sounds didn't need additional notes to improve them.
In fact, IMO, Hackett's version of "Firth" on his Genesis Revisited disc was ideal in terms of the embellishments he put on the solo. It was more of a melody or a theme than a solo.
Hackett's awfully good at playing just a few notes, but they're all the right notes, and you can't really imagine any other.
Hackett's parts(to me) came/come from deep within his soul, so some things can be played technically correct but it's hard to duplicate another person's soul. It's that "it" thing people talk about.
Soundcloud page: Richard Hermans, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/@richardhermans4457
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Well spoke, Puck! Yes, Mr. Hackett seems to channel things from an entirely different place.
While I loved Daryl in Ponty (saw him twice with JLP), enjoyed his solo records (especially "Go"), and really respected his work with Genesis (live), there is no replacing Mr. Hackett's wonderful tonal palette and that delightful mischievous side.
His guitar tone with Genesis often seemed to be too different than the choices Hackett used on the records. I was lucky to see Genesis in 1976 and 1977 (as well as the latter tours with Daryl); Hackett was a huge part of their sound.
The thing I found interesting was I remember Rutherford saying he wasn't sure if they need a "bass player/guitarist" or a "guitarist/bass player", which I guess is why he auditioned Alphonso Johnson, because he wasn't sure if he needed a bassist who played guitar, or a guitarist who played bass, if you understand the difference.
But I always thought it would have been obvious that whoever they chose would have to be a guitarist first. I mean, they were still doing a fair amount of stuff that Hacket played on, so you need someone who can play "lead" guitar, as it were, which isn't something you always find with bassists.
Also, as I recall, Rutherford himself was a guitarist first, who got kinda got drafted over to the rhythm section, presumably because nobody else wanted the job (and probably because Ant's "lead guitar" skills developed faster than Mike's). And I always felt that sort of played into how Rutherford played bass, because he was often times playing very melodic parts that went beyond "rhythm section" duties. So it would have seemed to me you needed someone who took a similar path, to perhaps cop the vibe that Mike had, if you were to want to recreate the parts onstage.
I'd still like to know how he came to audition Alphonso Johnson, though. It might have been interesting to hear what he might have done on the Hackett stuff.
As for Darryl, I think he did a fine enough job. Yeah, maybe sometimes he got a little carried wtih adding extra notes, as on Firth Of Fifth, but I think he rendered that solo well. He also did a very fine job with things like Ripples, The Cinema Show, In That Quiet Earth. OK, so he didn't play the songs note for note the way Steve did them in the studio. If he had, then everyone would be complaining he was too much of a clone or whatever.
Stuermer was in a no win position following Hackett. I understand why DS didn't try to mimic Hackett's style note for note on everything, particularly the signature solos like Firth, and I took awhile to begrudgingly accept his approach. I think overall he did a good job in a demanding live situation (playing bass on the newer stuff and playing Hackett's lead guitar on the older stuff). I think he by and large stayed true to the sound on the older material while still injecting a bit of himself into the soundscape, but it was never going to sound exactly the same.
Hackett had such a unique tone and atmosphere to his guitar playing. Daryl had different strengths and also was very talented, but he was no Hackett, similar to Rabin being no Howe. It could have been a lot worse/different, and I liken it more to a Wakeman to Moraz type situation.
good points
I like Hackett's style. He has his own sound and I definitely like his first few solo albums better than any Genesis albums, but I probably would not name him if someone asked me who I thought the top 25 guitarists of all time are... perhaps top 50
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
Johnson made out better playing with Phil on his solo records[emoji12]
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[QUOTE=DocProgger;840696]Yeah, a bit like Tommy Bolin or Steve Morse having to replace Ritchie Blackmore. There were people who wouldn't give the guy the time of day, just because he wasn't Blackmore.Stuermer was in a no win position following Hackett.
I would have liked Sterumer and Thompson to have appeared on a Genesis album, the live band always had a weight to it that the studio albums lacked, both great players, and different from Collins and Hackett, it would have been a good contrast
I would have liked later Genesis albums to have had an actual producer....
Good Morning Saturday.
Thanks for the responses folks!
Carry On
Chris Buckley
I think in the Chapter And Verse book, Stuermer said they had a tape of (most of) A Trick Of The Tail playing on the JLP tour bus, so he knew that album fairly well.
As I recall Stuermer said he auditioned playing "Squonk" and "Down and Out" and Rutherford was impressed that Stuermer could already play the songs properly, which I guess the other auditioning guitarists could not.
Personally, I love Daryl's contributions and cannot picture live Genesis without him honestly. I like the guy as a person too, at least based on how comes across in the interviews and behind the scenes stuff I've watched. Seems like he would be fun to be around.
Though I think Daryl was a better fit with JL-P. and love his work there, he was great in Genesis, as long as someone isn't looking for Hackett (who is utterly unique and irreplaceable). He was a pro who did as he was asked. If he had been on one of the studio records I'm sure he would have contributed more of his own feel to the writing/ improvisations.
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