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Thread: Metallica- ...And Justice For All (30th Anniversary)

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    The Persistence of Time remains my favorite Anthrax album. It's far and away a better record than AJFA: better songs, better vocals, better guitar playing, better drumming (duh, haha), and yeah, a better MIX.
    I need to get more Anthrax (and Metallica, for that matter). I have only State Of Euphoria, which I bought in the same record club order, as ...And Justice For All, as a matter of fact. I seem to recall there was about 3 or 4 albums in that order, and those were two of them. I think the first album by Enuff Z'Nuff (think Cheap Trick gone glam metal) wasi n that order and maybe one other, but I'm not sure.

    Anyway, Persistence Of Time was one I meant to get when it came out, but never got around to. I know Among The Living (the album immediately before State Of Euphoria) is supposed to be some all time classic, but apart from borrowing it from the library once, I don't really know it.

  2. #27
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    You did NOT just liken Enuff Z'nuff to Cheap Trick.

  3. #28
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    You did NOT just liken Enuff Z'nuff to Cheap Trick.
    Well, they were recognized as the glam rock 80s version of Cheap Trick when they came out in the late 80s. There were almost always references to Cheap Trick back in the day.


    link

    Still, the album built Enuff Z’Nuff a rabid if modest following, and the band’s inspired power-chord pop sound won it a number of famous fans, including Steven Tyler, Robert Plant, Robert Palmer and the members of Cheap Trick (a big influence). Plant told MTV last year that he found Enuff Z’Nuff to be a perfect combination of pop music and metal.


    link

    More like Cheap Trick than Poison, Cheap Trick being another big influence on the band.



    link

    At the start of their career, Chicago's Enuff Z'Nuff were touted as the rightful heirs to Cheap Trick thanks to their uncanny talent for combining alluring pop melodies with controlled hard rock crunch.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    The Persistence of Time remains my favorite Anthrax album. It's far and away a better record than AJFA: better songs, better vocals, better guitar playing, better drumming (duh, haha), and yeah, a better MIX.
    First off, before I get to the quote.

    Enuff Z'nuff in a Metallica thread. Doesn't get much more ridiculous than that. Just awful and I'll die on that hill.

    Persistence of Time. When Ian and Belladonna, IIRC, ranked them on That Metal Show Ian said PoT was "unfinished". Then Bello came in(the be all end all) and supposedly got the order "right" and I forget what he came up with but that statement caught me as surprising, a little bit. Not knowing the circumstances, of course but that's a bit that caught my ear.

    Hell if I know why they don't like it that much or who was responsible.
    Carry On My Blood-Ejaculating Son - JKL2000

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    Well, they were recognized as the glam rock 80s version of Cheap Trick when they came out in the late 80s. There were almost always references to Cheap Trick back in the day.
    Donnie Vie's voice certainly sounded a lot like Robin Zander's, and Chip Z'nuff played a Hamer 12 string bass, and there was a very pop melody sensibility in the music, so yeah, I think the Cheap Trick comparison is apt.

  6. #31
    Cool interview with the band about that album and time period.

    Carry On My Blood-Ejaculating Son - JKL2000

  7. #32
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I had kind of forgotten about this project until I noticed that there was a massive thread on it on the Hoffman site. I went over to Amazon to check the reviews and at least a third of them started with the words STILL NO BASS! Man, they really fucked up a golden opportunity to fix this album.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  8. #33
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    I had kind of forgotten about this project until I noticed that there was a massive thread on it on the Hoffman site. I went over to Amazon to check the reviews and at least a third of them started with the words STILL NO BASS! Man, they really fucked up a golden opportunity to fix this album.
    Other than having Newsted or the third bassist (whatever his name is) lay down new licks there isn't a really good (clean) way to fix it, other than to EQ the shit out it. IMS, they don't have the individual tracks anymore. I myself have fussed and fussed with this album, using Goldwave wavefile editor and it sounds Improved to me but nothing to brag about. I knew guys in the Navy that loved that the bass was absent so there you go.

  9. #34
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I knew guys in the Navy that loved that the bass was absent so there you go.
    Not to mention fans that loved the tin drums and dry guitars.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  10. #35
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Man, coming back to this album I have to say Blackened must be the most technically complicated song they ever did, as far as the time sig changes go. I was counting along last night after a couple of glasses of wine and I got lost!
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

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  11. #36
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    need to get more Anthrax (and Metallica, for that matter). I have only State Of Euphoria,
    I've heard all the early albums on YT. Good band. I usually play Among The Living the most, but all the previous ones are pretty good.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by 3LockBox View Post
    Other than having Newsted or the third bassist (whatever his name is) lay down new licks there isn't a really good (clean) way to fix it, other than to EQ the shit out it. IMS, they don't have the individual tracks anymore..
    Why don't they have the individual tracks? What do you mean? Did they erase the multi-tracks or something? Well, that's a really stupid thing to do in 1988.

    If they don't have multi-tracks anymore, then how the frell are they going to overdub anything on it?

  13. #38
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    I never cared for the Justice album, even when it first came out. Not only didn't it sound good, I didn't like the overall feel of the album. Whenever I'd talk about how much Load, the first Alternica album sucked, fans of the album would say to me "they can't make the Justice album forever." My response was always I hope not, because even for a genuine thrash album, it too sucked.

    EDIT: I should point out that unlike some other diehard thrash fans, I never had a problem with the Black Album. Even thought it wasn't as thrashy as Master of Puppets or Ride the Lightning, I still thought it was an overall great album.
    Last edited by progmatist; 04-17-2020 at 04:12 PM.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    EDIT: I should point out that unlike some other diehard thrash fans, I never had a problem with the Black Album. Even thought it wasn't as thrashy as Master of Puppets or Ride the Lightning, I still thought it was an overall great album.
    I like Black too. I skip all the overplayed radio hits, but the fast, thrash songs are pretty good (Struggle Within, On Through The Never, etc. great tracks). My favorite tracks are My Friend Of Misery, and The God That Failed.

    Load is lame, but I really like Re-Load. Re-Load actually got me into Metallica. Go figger.
    E-A-T

  15. #40
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    I've always liked Black, Load and Reload. They were different, and had some skipper tracks, but the ones that weren't were great IMO. I've always been somewhat baffled by just how disliked they are. They still sound like Metallica to me, just less thrashy and complex than what came before. And I became a fan when Puppets was the current album, and lived and breathed those first four as a young metal fan.

    But, one must get used to criticism of this band, it's been there since their second album when people turned their noses up at Fade To Black.

    For me personally, the glaring weak spots came after Reload. The covers album and the orchestral one were fun novelties for a while at least, but St. Anger was very weak to my ears - not just the songs, but the sound of the recording was abysmal... I don't know what they were thinking. They gained some ground again with the very good Death Magnetic, but then took eighteen giant leaps back with the appalling Lulu. I can't even try to listen to it. Give me Load and Reload any day over that! Hardwired is an enormous improvement, of course.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    They gained some ground again with the very good Death Magnetic, but then took eighteen giant leaps back with the appalling Lulu. I can't even try to listen to it. Give me Load and Reload any day over that! Hardwired is an enormous improvement, of course.
    I dig Death Magnetic. I think I like the EP, Beyond Magnetic even more. Have you heard it? Highly recommended. It's epic-ish, adventurous Metallica. Four tracks that all average around 7 minutes each. Hardwired is about 50 percent good to me. Take the best from disc 1 and 2, and 2 or 3 tracks from the bonus disk and you've got one hell of a CDr. My favorite track from Hardwired is "Dream No More." It's "The Thing That Should Not Be 2."
    E-A-T

  17. #42
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    I always thought the Load album was a load of something alright.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  18. #43
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I dig Death Magnetic. I think I like the EP, Beyond Magnetic even more. Have you heard it? Highly recommended. It's epic-ish, adventurous Metallica. Four tracks that all average around 7 minutes each. Hardwired is about 50 percent good to me. Take the best from disc 1 and 2, and 2 or 3 tracks from the bonus disk and you've got one hell of a CDr. My favorite track from Hardwired is "Dream No More." It's "The Thing That Should Not Be 2."
    Yes, those four tracks are just as good as the main album for sure!
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

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  19. #44
    Member Paul's Avatar
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    I loved AJFA. I remember buying the 'Harvester of Sorrow' 12" on the day it was released, with the covers of 'Breadfan' and 'The Prince' on the b-side. It made me totally psyched for the album.
    Tu veux un camembert?

  20. #45
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    I like "Garage Inc" a lot too. I think my favorite track is the 11 minute "Mercyful Fate." Killer!
    E-A-T

  21. #46
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I like "Garage Inc" a lot too. I think my favorite track is the 11 minute "Mercyful Fate." Killer!
    Well yeah, that is a killer track for sure, but then Mercyful Fate were a killer band!
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

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