Nah. There is nothing as good as Turn Of The Century and Parallels on Tormato.Originally Posted by Trane
Nah. There is nothing as good as Turn Of The Century and Parallels on Tormato.
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Indeed. But, I find that Howe's Telecaster tone is particularly egregious on that godawful unaccompanied solo he rams into the middle of 'Sound Chaser,' which renders it all but unlistenable to me. This isn't helped by the fact that his playing in that section is so appallingly sloppy - ironic on an album where so much of his playing is absolutely bang-on, and probably amongst his most ambitious and accomplished from a technical standpoint. This reminds me that there are few Yes tracks I find more contrasting than 'Sound Chaser': the first couple of minutes are absolutely brilliant, some of the finest music Yes ever made. It's rapidly downhill from there, though - from Howe's sheer awfulness into all that 'cha-cha-cha' plus asthmatic wheezing bollocks, and concluding with the final '70s porn soundtrack section, including slowing down for the money shot. From something truly magical, it degenerates into one of Yes's least finest moments, musically speaking, and something that for me gives a degree of validation to what the critics were beginning to say about them in the mid-70s. Thank god the rest of the album is so good.
To be fair, Squire and Wakeman were oft making annoying noises as well.
On the Relayer tour Moraz was way down in the mix, in fact it seemed like Howe played most of the "keyboard" parts on guitar. It was so obvious that they didn't want the keyboards up front, and Moraz left the band shortly after.
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Not the case on the show I saw. The instance I always think of is that high-pitched trilling sound after the first lyric line in "Sound Chaser." On the LP it doesn't particularly stand out; live it practically took your head off.
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Well, that's a different and unique way of looking at that section. For me, Patrick Moraz's keyboard solo is a thing of beauty; in fact, it may be my favorite keyboard solo in all of Yes's history.
"Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)
+1. And I can't find any other faults in the Soundchaser either. Absolutely brlliant song. Cha-cha-section included.
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Sound Chaser is my favorite track from the album. I even like Steve's tone. It grew on me.
Be prepared to be bombarded with hundreds of posts proving - beyond any possible doubt - that CHA-CHA is not worthy of a serious progressive rock band like Yes. CHA-CHA's are not...appropriate.
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Century, I'll place on top of Tormato (but hardly on par with Awaken), but the rest is poorer of GFTO than Tormato.
I wonder how Yes fans would feel if Tormato had a different (Dean for ex) artwork and a better name.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
^Wouldn't make a difference. 'Future Times/Rejoice', 'Onward' and '...Silent Wings...' are the only things on there worth much. IMHO.
With GFTO I'm not the biggest fan of 'Parallels' but the rest is great.
The only time I don't like pedal steel is when it's used in that sort of stereotypical way, where the steel player uses the volume pedal to fade in the notes, and you get that sort of cat meowing sound. You hear it on a lot of country (fake and otherwise) ballads. Or you used to, anyway, maybe not so much now.
But the way people like Howe used the pedal steel I thought was fine. I certainly like the way he uses it on To Be Over and Awaken, as the two most obvious examples.
I Think Howe was interested in stringed instruments in general, given his use of mandolin, lute, laud, and koto on various records. And from the comments he makes in his book, I think he spent at least a little time listening to country music, so that's probably what got him interested in steel, pedal, lap and otherwise.
As far as "where was the rest of the band when he decided to do that" I get the impression Howe had to fight to get a lot of stuff on the records. In his book, he says that The Remembering was a "rare instance of the lute making it onto a Yes record" (implying he kept pulling it out the others kept saying "no"). He talks about a particular steel guitar bit being cut from Into The Lens, which he was apparently still upset about a decade later. He also says there was a guitar part he did on Only Time Will Tell, using a Bigsby Palm Pedal equipped Les Paul TV, which the producer wanted to cut, but the band took a vote, and the consensus was to leave it in. So one guesses maybe there was a contingency within Yes, at any given time, who said "Why are you doing that" to any given band member at any given time, but maybe that particular contingency wasn't in the majority. Or perhaps that was the job of the producer's job on a Yes record, to make those kind of judgement calls.
You don't like Andy Summers, Danny Gatton, James Burton, Clarence White, Jerry Donahue, Will Ray, John Jorgenson, or Albert Lee?
Well, it does seem like a weird thing to throw in, but that piece is so weird, it doesn't really sound out of place, to my ears.
One thing that I always thought was interesting was, when they played Sound Chaser live, they had that bit on tape (something that Yes did on various other occasions, for instance the pipe organ on Close To The Edge itself, the intro to Leave It, etc). Now, if you've listened to King Biscuit show from Boston, you'll note that that bit is heard at the beginning of Sound Chaser! I've always wondered if that was deliberate, or if someone forgot to turn the tape machine off at the end of the Stravinsky. I thought worked rather well there.
To be honest, the last time I listened to the album, the only song that really bugged me was Arriving UFO. If there was ever a song that should have remained in the "outtake" category, it's Arriving UFO. The rest of it I thought ranged from reasonably good to great.Wouldn't make a difference. 'Future Times/Rejoice', 'Onward' and '...Silent Wings...' are the only things on there worth much. IMHO.
Arriving UFO aside, for me, a bigger issue with Tormato is the sounds. I think Wakeman overused the Polymoog on this record, in the same way that Emerson overused the GX-1. It's like "Oh, I've got a good toy, I need to make sure everyone knows it". I think it might have sounded a little better if he had played more organ and piano, and maybe swapped over to the Minimoog once in awhile.
Then there's Squire's envelope filter bass sound. And yes, it's the envelope filter I'm thinking of, not the Harmonizer. The Harmonizer is just giving that sort of chorusing kind of effect. The "burr-wow" sound you hear on a lot of the songs is the envelope filter. It sounds cool on the intro of ...Silent Wings..., but you kinda wish someone had gone over to him and said, "Dude, you're not Bootsy Collins! Give it a rest".
But there again, that was sort of a new toy at the time (though Squire had actually used a similar effect on Wondrous Stories), so there was a "look at what I got" aspect to it. It must have been a great thing to be in a famous band during the 70's and 80's, especially if you were a guitarist or keyboardist. Like every 6 months some new toy was coming out, and these companies half the time were sending demo stuff to these guys to try out. I remember Jeff Beck said once that every guitar company in the world was beating a path to his doorway to give him free guitars, in hopes of getting an endorsement deal or whatever. Sometimes they made good use of the stuff (or didn't, if they didn't like it) and other times...well, you ended up with records like Tormato and Works Vol. I sounding the way they do because of it.
Oh, and as far as Going For The One goes, I think that whole albums is great. Most of it is awesome, I somehow feel Turn Of The Century is slightly not as good as the rest of the record, as to me it, it just sort of feels just a bit like a bunch of bits tossed together. But I like the melody, and I like the emotion of the lyric, so it mostly works for me.
As for Parallels, I always dug the song, from the very first time I heard it on Yesshows. And I think the reason I like is the very reason most people don't: it's mostly just a straight forward, high energy rock n roll song. It's almost like the Yes version of a Thin Lizzy or Cheap Trick or Blue Oyster Cult song. OK, maybe the lyric not so much, but that song rocks in the most unashamed, unabashed fashion, and I love it for that. And it made a great way to kick off a show.
Of course it's weird. It comes from a time when weird was a virtue, when musicians tried all kind of weird ideas, and experimented with them. That was supposed to be the essence of prog-rock.
But the problem is not just its weirdness. The problem is that it is not "serious" enough. And there is a tendency in PE to reject these somewhat less serious endeavours. Epping Forest is a joke that ruins Selling England By The Pound. The Hare story in Passion Play destroys the overall result. And so on.
that is news to me! has the CHA-CHA really been the subject of derision here? I find that interesting - I have never seen it like that. Is actually a very fusion moment - reminds me of Weather Report, also followed by Patrick' solo, which I wish was more up front and speaker rattling !
v
I agree, but "Awaken" is almost half the album.
But his guitar in "To Be Over" is lovely.
An actual "pedal steel" is so named not for the volume pedal, rather for a series of foot pedals and knee levers which bend individual strings. Since steel guitars typically use open chord tunings, this allows a single note within a chord to be bent. Perhaps the clearest example of this would be the very first thing played on the pedal steel in CSNY's Teach Your Children. It's a double stop in which one note bends higher while the other one maintains a steady pitch. This juxtaposition of a bent note with steady note(s) happens several more times throughout the song.
Last edited by progmatist; 09-10-2018 at 06:32 PM.
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama
A Tele can actually sound pretty damn good if played through an appropriate amp with appropriate settings. Most rockers in the '70s got it wrong on both counts. In addition to Roy Buchanan, Prince got it right on his early albums...his Tele also sounded good. Another would be the boss, Bruce Springsteen.
Last edited by progmatist; 09-10-2018 at 05:51 PM.
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama
I'm hard pressed to think of any 70s rock players that got a bad tone with a Telecaster. I personally hate Prince's tone, with a Telecaster or otherwise. Way too saturated and generic for my taste, but if you like it, great. I wouldn't single out Springsteen's tone as being particularly great either. It's OK for rhythm, but nothing spectacular. Jimmy Page used a on the first Zeppelin album and sporadically thereafter, including the solo to Stairway. Sounds great to me. Went back to it in The Firm with somewhat mixed results. Other Tele greats include Robbie McIntosh, Danny Gatton, Keith, the list goes on. But I rarely if ever hear someone playing a Tele where I don't like the tone, so I'm really not sure who you're referring to here.
That said, I can see not liking Howe's Tele tone on Relayer. It is very bright, often to the point of being "ice picky." It wasn't the fault of the studio recording either, because you hear live recordings from that period, and it sounds exactly the same. So clearly this is what Howe was shooting for. I like the music on Relayer so much I've probably forgiven some of the album's sonic flaws, and some of Howe's sloppy playing. In fairness, he was probably stretching his playing to the limit here and so the sloppiness doesn't bother me as much. I really like the cadenza in Sound Chaser, high musical drama. Howe's Tele tone isn't my personal favorite, but I guess I've gotten used to it over the years and it doesn't bother me that much, even while I recognize it isn't what one would likely classify as "great guitar tone." I'd rather hear performances like this than the tepid stuff he's turned in for the past 25 years.
As for the Rest of Sound Chaser, I love it. Guess that means I need to check out more porn soundtracks, huh?
Bill
I personally love Steve’s use of the pedal steel. The one song where I find it overwhelming though is on Going for the One.
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Albert Collins, bro. The Master of the Telecaster.
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Interesting observation.. shortly after Relayer was released I took it to a Friday night party where everyone typically brought an album with them that they were turned on by that week and each get a chance to throw it on the turntable and then the "debate" would ensue.. kinda like here.. well I threw Relayer on and while there were a couple of Yes freaks in the room that night most weren't.. First reaction to Sound Chaser was "what happened to Steve's guitar playing? It's sloppy etc." To Be Over was equally criticized with comments like "it's boring.. put the other side on etc." Gates was the one redeeming song that most agreed was on par with anything to date.. Personally I loved Relayer first time I heard it all the way thru and still rank it at the top of the heap..
[QUOTE=progmatist;839691]I already knew that, Kolchak. But a lot of pedal steel players also use a volume pedal with their instrument, and it's used to create the stereotypical sound that you used to hear on like every country and western ballad.An actual "pedal steel" is so named not for the volume pedal, rather for a series of foot pedals and knee levers which bend individual strings.
Since you mention Teach Your Children, did you know that's Jerry Garcia playing the pedal steel there?
Also the oblique motion string bend (that's the technical term for the type of lick you described) can be emulated in various ways on guitar. Some guys reach behind the nut and bend the string up by pushing down on it. There's been various string bending devices, such as the Parsons/White string bender. I remember reading where Sonny Landreth started developing his playing style by trying to emulate Clarence White's playing when Clarence first joined The Byrds, without knowing how Clarence was actually doing it.
That's not pedal steel, that's just the Fender doubleneck steel guitar (which doesn't have pedals). I think the only song on Going For The One where he plays pedal steel is on Awaken, during the high vibration sections. He's using a volume pedal, flanger and delay to make what he described in his book as an "underwater sound".I personally love Steve’s use of the pedal steel. The one song where I find it overwhelming though is on Going for the One.
"Ain't nobody getting out of here til you sing the blues!"Albert Collins, bro. The Master of the Telecaster.
I can't believe I forgot to mention him in my earlier post. I've gotten really heavily into his late 70's/early 80's albums, the stuff he did for Alligator Records. Some very sweet stuff on those records (as well as some funny lyrics).
Another classic Tele player is Steve Cropper. Yeah, he was mostly a rhythm player, but he occasionally played some cool solos, like on Green Onions. There's a reason why Sam Moore calls out "Play it Steve!" on Soul Man.
Oh, and let's not forget Dr. Brian May, who played a Telecaster on Crazy Little Thing Called Love. He even traveled with one on tour during the 80's, specifically for the purposes of playing that one solo (he'd start the song on acoustic 12 string, switch to the Tele for the second verse, then after the guitar solo switch to the Red Special).
[QUOTE=GuitarGeek;839763]You are forgiven.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
I think Long Distance Runaround has an RMI Electric piano or whatever it's called.
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