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Thread: 90125/Asia

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by SongForAmerica View Post
    No, he's under A but comes after the Adventures, Marc Almond, and Ambrosia, all of which are protected from warpage by that Asia album
    whoops the adventures part slipped my brain but... AS is after AD and AN. don't know that my obsessive compulsiveness could handle that sort of discrepancy record protection be damned

  2. #52
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    Re: Asia
    For these ears, Asia s/t is the last time Howe had any sort of good guitar tone.

    Somewhere btwn Asia and Alpha, Steve decided that a ballsy tone was no longer needed in his repetoire and it never returned.
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  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve983 View Post
    The intros to OOALH and HOTM are very similar.
    Well, they're both guitar power chords, but that's about the only similarity. They're playing completely different chord progressions. Owner is, I believe, A, B, C, D, A, B, C, D, G.

    I'm not sure what key Heat Of The Moment is actually in, but if you start on A, the verse progression is something like A, B, G, A, D.

    If I remember correctly, Howe said once that "the guitar never seemed to be allowed to stick it's neck out" on Alpha. I think he said the record got mixed like three times, the last time by the producer, without any of the musicians involved, and they were all unhappy with the results.
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 08-24-2018 at 08:57 PM.

  4. #54
    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    I was very into Yes, ELP and Rush when the Asia album and then 90125 came out. I remember the first time hearing "Heat of the Moment," and "Owner." I was in the car both times. I hated both songs from the second I heard them and still do. I did eventually get exposed to the albums. Asia I never owned, but heard plenty, but I did buy 90125 and gave it the college try.

    I do like some songs on each album. On Asia, I like Sole Survivor, Wildest Dreams, and Time and Time Again. The rest I think it utter dreck, the worst kind of cloying and pandering pop rock. On 90125, I sort of like Hold On, which had a sort of bluesy feel, City of Love, Cinema and maybe one other track, though I can't put my finger on which just now. This has never sounded like a Yes album to me, but I don't think I'd have liked it much better had it come out as Cinema or as a Rabin solo album. It's just not the sort of pop music I like. Too slick, too calculated, too over-produced. And the drums just make me insane, way too stiff and mechanical.

    Did I feel "betrayed" by my Prog heroes turning out what was obviously a big course correction to the mainstream? Yeah, a bit. I did try to get on board. I went to see both bands live (had to go see Yes by myself as none of my friends would go). There was a kind of energy to both shows, but it seemed so empty to me compared with seeing Yes in 1979. In retrospect, times change and the bands I though were in it for the art turned out to be in it primarily for the money and glory.

    Good life lesson, but on balance, not particularly good music. Not to my ears anyway.

    I still think that if Howe, Wetton, Palmer, Squire or Anderson were not on these albums, and that 90125 didn't have a YES logo stamped onto it, nobody would be talking about these albums here. But, that isn't how it went down, so we live with the consequences.

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  5. #55
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    "Betrayed" is too strong a word, but I was definitely disappointed with ASIA's debut. You have to remember that we didn't have the internet
    with constant updates ("Watch Steve change his guitar strings!" "See John quadrupling the chorus vocals!"). The only thing I had to go by
    (I won't speak for anyone else) was a photo in the back of a magazine showing the musicians. Any comments by bandmembers were usually
    vague "We're really excited to be working together" and "The material is coming along nicely" without description of said material.
    Add in that I loved the last albums by YES and UK (not counting live albums), and Palmer wasn't a writer on Love Beach so I was expecting
    a bit more fireworks from this group.

    After the initial disappointment, I came to (somewhat) enjoy it for what it was, but it isn't anything I reach for...
    but I have always enjoyed 90125, so there.

  6. #56
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravedigger View Post
    "Betrayed" is too strong a word, but I was definitely disappointed with ASIA's debut.
    HUGELY disappointed, and flabbergasted that this was what this combination of musicians came up with...especially after the long hype campaign that had preceded the album for months, emphasizing the individual band members' pedigrees, with the obvious implication that this was going to sound like Yes + ELP + King Crimson + U.K. Well, maybe there was a touch of U.K. there, since that band was itself starting to edge into AOR territory with a couple of tracks on Danger Money and Night After Night, but nothing on those albums was as crass as the material on Asia. "Only Time Will Tell" was a rather nice tune; everything else on the album just felt empty and dead. 90125 didn't fare much better with me. At least I kept the album (unlike the Asia abomination). It has its moments, but overall I consider it mediocre at best. I'd take the Buggles over either one.
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  7. #57
    Yes

  8. #58
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    As we're speaking of Asia, I wonder if anyone can confirm or correct my memory on this:

    I remember watching a late-night show, maybe "Fridays"?? Or maybe it was some kind of rock music news show at 11 pm? They announced the formation of Asia, who the players were, etc. And they showed a video clip of the quartet. But this was probably before the album was actually recorded and I believe the guys were playing something off Drama. Maybe this was dubbed? Real or my imagination?

  9. #59
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudShark22 View Post
    Re: Asia
    For these ears, Asia s/t is the last time Howe had any sort of good guitar tone.

    Somewhere btwn Asia and Alpha, Steve decided that a ballsy tone was no longer needed in his repetoire and it never returned.
    Totally agree. I love his tone on their debut.
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  10. #60
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    AI remember watching a late-night show, maybe "Fridays"?? Or maybe it was some kind of rock music news show at 11 pm? They announced the formation of Asia, who the players were, etc. And they showed a video clip of the quartet. But this was probably before the album was actually recorded and I believe the guys were playing something off Drama. Maybe this was dubbed? Real or my imagination?
    Maybe Night Flight? I'm guessing that's where I saw the "Only Time Will Tell" video (with the band on TV monitors and a ballerina somersaulting around them), but that would have been after the LP was released.
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  11. #61
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    Both good albums, but 90125 always seemed more substantial. And it still gets a fair amount of play. Only whip out Asia for 80s playlists. I was too young to know who any of the players in either group were, at the time, so I had no idea of their massive history.

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  12. #62
    BTW, the only time I ever really felt "betrayed" by anyone associated with so called "progressive rock" or fusion music, was in the late 90's when I found out where certain musicians careers went after the prog/fusion hey day of the 70's, and ya know what? It wasn't any of the guys from Yes, Crimson, etc who I got a shock from.

    It was finding out that Jannick Top, former Magma bassist eventually produced a record for Celine Dion! It was realizing how many of the great fusion musicians turned to making relatively uninteresting R&B music during the 80's. The man who gave us De Futura produced possibly the least interesting Quebecois musician imaginable.

    It was realizing that Narada Michael Walden went from playing drums with Jeff Beck to writing Freeway Of Love and producing Whitney Houston, of all people. I mean, the guy on Wired, and he's on Tommy Bolin's Teaser, too! Actually, now that I think about it, Freeway Of Love wasn't that bad of a song. If you replaced the synth bass with a Fender bass, and got rid of the 80's drum sound, it'd sound like an old fashioned Motown number. And Narada did have the presence of mind to get Clarence Clemons to do the sax solo. But anyway...

    It was realizing that Randy Jackson somehow went from playing bass with Jean-Luc Ponty and Blue Öyster Cult (OK, he's only on one BÖC song, but still, that's a cool bass line on Shooting Shark) to being a judge on American FRELLING Idol. I sure hope he got paid good to put up with Simon Cowell.

    George Duke, meanwhile, went from playing wtih Frank Zappa, to producing Let's Hear It For The Boy for Deniece Williams. Though, there again, that's kind of a catchy song, so George kinda gets a pass on that one (but he actually loses points in my book, because he didn't want to do the song, and Deniece had to put her foot down and said she wanted to sing it, George said "After about the first million copies, I decided I better start liking this song").

    And dont' get me started on Stanley Clarke. Have you ever heard his version of Born In The USA?! Trust me, it's not pretty (though, once again, I actually like most of the other songs on the Find Out album, and it does have a good instrumental on it called My Life).

    About the only Englishman who disappointed me that much was Peter Sinfield (another of Celine Dion's collaborators...and I mean that in both senses of the word).

  13. #63
    I think 90125 is a great album and was the best album that YES in 1983 could have made. They had to keep up with the times to survive and also keep the YES spirit intact and they did that in spades on this album. It is vastly superior artistically to any of the "arena rock" bands like Journey, Styx, Foreigner, REO etc. They managed to be accessible yet artsy and progressive/cutting edge, not an easy feat.
    I found Asia disappointing overall, though there are nice moments peppered throughout. Their second album is abysmal.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by the winter tree View Post
    They managed to be accessible yet artsy and progressive/cutting edge, not an easy feat.
    I found Asia disappointing overall, though there are nice moments peppered throughout. Their second album is abysmal.
    I think a lot of that has to do with Trevor Horn, this is a quality of nearly everything he’s produced. If you listen to Seal’s albums you hear interesting sounds and unexpected chord progressions for pop songs. Love The Producers album, by the way.


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  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by noisynoise View Post
    I think a lot of that has to do with Trevor Horn, this is a quality of nearly everything he’s produced. If you listen to Seal’s albums you hear interesting sounds and unexpected chord progressions for pop songs.
    Horn helped but the core of the songs are more interesting than what was on Asia, where half of those songs were interesting - Wildest Dreams, for example.

    For Seal's albums, that applies almost only to the first two albums with a bit on IV and 7.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by noisynoise View Post
    Love The Producers album, by the way.
    Too bad they couldn't think of a more original band name (there was an American group back in the 80's called The Producers, you may remember the song She Sheila).

  17. #67
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    I think with Alpha, it's a typical 'difficult second album'. The best songs are IMHO the two they were playing live whilst touring the first album. 'My Own Time' is OK. The rest feels a bit stagnant to me, not really moving on artistically from the debut. Other than the intro I've never particularly liked 'Don't Cry' and the video...yikes. Perhaps it was a little rushed, to capitalise on the huge success of the debut. Can't blame them for that but in the long run it wasn't great for them.

    Astra does little for me at all. Howe going removed any semblance of quirk that they had, IMHO.

  18. #68
    On Alpha, I rather liked:

    Don't Cry (though the video wask inda stupid...someone had obviously seen Raiders Of The Lost Ark...always wondered why Wetton is the only band member the girl doesn't kill)
    The Smile Has Left Your Eyes
    Never In A Million Years
    Eye To Eye
    Open Your Eyes
    The Heat Goes On (nice Hammond organ work from Downes on that one)

  19. #69
    These albums came out at an interesting time for me, personally.

    Asia was released when I was about 15 and just before I started playing music myself. I knew some of the more famous songs by Yes and ELP and was a huge Rush fan, but I didn't even know that "prog" existed as a concept. Hence, my experience of Asia was that I *really* liked all the songs that made the radio except "Heat of the Moment" (which seemed a little too "happy happy" for me)--but I never bought it until many, many years later.

    90125 came out just before I became a big Yes fan, thanks to trying to learn "Roundabout" on guitar (and mostly failing...). However, I also really liked all the 90125 songs and didn't see it as "watered down", but as a fresh new sound. By the time I became a major Yes fan and a progster, I still had these residual good feelings for 90125.

    Years later, it's clear to me that 90125 is the far better and more important of the two. Asia has lots of wonderful bits throughout and two or three songs that are excellent by any standard, but 90125 is a landmark album of the era. The production and songwriting were both very influential across the pop and rock spectrum.

  20. #70
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    I read somewhere that Wetton and Downes wrote all of Alpha while Howe was taking a break and spending time with his family. This obviously made it less of a band collaboration.

    The standout tracks for me on that album are "Midnight Sun" and "The Heat Goes On." The rest is just okay to my ears. Downes' synths are the main thing that make those other tracks worth listening to for me.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soc Prof View Post
    I read somewhere that Wetton and Downes wrote all of Alpha while Howe was taking a break and spending time with his family. This obviously made it less of a band collaboration.

    The standout tracks for me on that album are "Midnight Sun" and "The Heat Goes On." The rest is just okay to my ears. Downes' synths are the main thing that make those other tracks worth listening to for me.
    I read where Howe said his ideas weren’t used on Alpha. The b-side of “The Smile Has Left Your Eyes” was “Lying to Yourself” which was a Wetton/Howe song, however.

  22. #72
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    Actually yes I would agree that 'The Heat Goes On' is a good track, in addition to the three I mentioned. Whatever, Alpha was far from the multi-platinum blockbuster their debut was. And then you get the 'Asia In Asia' thing, with another singer.

    I also had no idea that Astra did as badly as this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_discography

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I think with Alpha, it's a typical 'difficult second album'. The best songs are IMHO the two they were playing live whilst touring the first album. 'My Own Time' is OK. The rest feels a bit stagnant to me, not really moving on artistically from the debut. Other than the intro I've never particularly liked 'Don't Cry' and the video...yikes. Perhaps it was a little rushed, to capitalise on the huge success of the debut. Can't blame them for that but in the long run it wasn't great for them.

    Astra does little for me at all. Howe going removed any semblance of quirk that they had, IMHO.
    I never really knew the back story to Astra.. when the single Go came out it sounded just like the stuff they released on Alpha.. Started in 1984, it marked the return of Wetton to the group after his firing in September 1983. He had been replaced by Emerson, Lake & Palmer co-founder Greg Lake, temporarily, for the concerts at the Nippon Budokan in Tokyo in December 1983. The opening night of these shows, highly advertised as Asia in Asia, was the first in the history of MTV to be broadcast via satellite transmission. Following a two-month stint, Lake had left Asia and soon Wetton had been convinced to come back. The latter agreed, but made it a condition to his return that Howe depart the line-up.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    Following a two-month stint, Lake had left Asia and soon Wetton had been convinced to come back. The latter agreed, but made it a condition to his return that Howe depart the line-up.
    It seems to have been a little more complicated than that, since I understand Howe was involved in the early stages of working on "Astra", although he declined to go into details when I interviewed him. So there appears to have been an overlap of several months between Wetton re-joining and Howe leaving, which makes the above claim dubious.
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  25. #75
    I listened to Astra again for the first time in at least 30 years. Wow, is it generic. Losing Howe was a big problem.

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