What's wrong with 200 Motels, the soundtrack?

[Zappathustra]

My own answer is: nothing. But I have the feeling that 200 Motels has always been the odd one out in Zappa's early discography. Its reputation as non-essential made me listen to it many years after I had already devoured all of Zappa's works up to Joe's Garage.

And when I finally did listen to it, I was amazed: it was a great Zappa piece of music, bold, ambitious, enjoyable, moving, and - obviously - utterly funny. It's no Uncle Meat, but it's close, right up there with all his early works. The extensive use of choir and orchestra (and strings in particular, which I think is rare for Zappa) makes this record unique in terms of arrangements and musical content. So yes, essential as hell in my opinion, and highly important as an experiment and an achievement.

What do you people say?

Note: in old Prog Archives 200 Motels gets the 3rd worst rating out of all Zappa's records until 1984!

Note 2: Is Does This Kind Of Life the first rap song in the history of music or what?

[spellbound]

I always liked 200 Motels. Maybe some folks didn't get into it because of its length. It was originally a 2 record set. There is a small town called Centerville not far from here. I always smile as I go past it.

[JJ88]

I certainly like some of it but it's sprawling and took longer for me to warm up to. Some strong rock tunes on here ('Mystery Roach', 'Daddy Daddy Daddy', 'What Will This Evening...' etc.), some neat parodies ('Lonesome Cowboy Burt') but some of that orchestral/vocal material is still not to my own personal taste- 'Penis Dimension', 'The Girl Wants To Fix Him Some Broth' and the like. A little of that Flo and Eddie horseplay goes a long, long way for me. So overall not his best, but definitely not his worst...I'd say it has more to recommend than the Flo and Eddie live ones either side of it.

However, I'd say most of the 'problem' regarding this album is its unavailability, surely? I believe there are issues with its ownership. I was happy to find a second hand copy of the CD very cheaply many years ago as it was already OOP then.

[Mister Triscuits]

My own answer is: nothing. But I have the feeling that 200 Motels has always been the odd one out in Zappa's early discography. Its reputation as non-essential made me listen to it many years after I had already devoured all of Zappa's works up to Joe's Garage.

It absolutely is essential IMO. Definitely in the Zappa top ten. The justification for the whole Flo & Eddie era, and our first chance to hear FZ's real orchestral music as opposed to the scraped-together bits on Lumpy Gravy.

[spacefreak]

It is essential!

[Dave (in MA)]

Never could get into it. Not a fan of the F&E period.

[pb2015]

However, I'd say most of the 'problem' regarding this album is its unavailability, surely? I believe there are issues with its ownership. I was happy to find a second hand copy of the CD very cheaply many years ago as it was already OOP then.

United Artists owns it, I believe. Rykodisc had to do an expensive deal just to release the CD which went out of print in a short time.

[Crawford Glissadevil]

Owns a special place in my heart- from "Flo and Eddie" harmonies to the Stravinsky inspired dissonance to Jimmy Carl Black.

[Mister Triscuits]

United Artists owns it, I believe. Rykodisc had to do an expensive deal just to release the CD which went out of print in a short time.

Why United Artists persists in sitting on it is beyond me. Either release it yourself or license it. Even in the vinyl era its availability was spotty, with a French edition on Liberty (sans poster and booklet) being relatively easy to get after the UA original went out of print, and later a bare-bones reissue on MCA (2 LPS in a single sleeve, forget about any inserts).

[chalkpie]

I don't listen to it enough, but c'mon, its 70's FZ!

[zombywoof]

It absolutely is essential IMO. Definitely in the Zappa top ten. The justification for the whole Flo & Eddie era, and our first chance to hear FZ's real orchestral music as opposed to the scraped-together bits on Lumpy Gravy.

It is essential!

[MudShark22]

While my screenhandle should indicate my love for F&E FZ, I virtually never play this album as I reach for Filmore East, JABFLA or the Carnegie Hall set always before 200/Motels.

[JJ88]

United Artists owns it, I believe. Rykodisc had to do an expensive deal just to release the CD which went out of print in a short time.

Yes I'm sure I heard it was only available for a few years and sales in that period were not good.

Some interesting gossip here, vis a vis 200 Motels but Zappa on Rykodisc generally, near the bottom of this page.

http://www.arf.ru/Misc/tb_int.html

Listening again I think some of the orchestral music reflects the fact that this is ultimately a soundtrack; that is, it feels like incidental music to me (even though I gather there were differences between album/film).

[unclemeat]

btw there will be two performances of 200 Motels in september

http://www.festivalmusica.org/manife...els-the-suites
https://philharmoniedeparis.fr/fr/ac...-motels-suites (& more)

[flowerking]

There are a lot of highlights on 200 Motels and to me, its the best of the Flo & Eddie era releases. But with that said, I don't like opera and can't handle the near operatic-style singing on a number of the classical compositions of 200 Motels. So I can never listen to this in its entirety. But then, I can say that for a lot of Mothers-era stuff too. Its by no means one of Zappa's best, but its also far from the bottom. I'd probably rank it somewhere in or above the middle.

[DoubleDrummer]

Yes -- essential.
I like it as a video record of the F&E Zappa band as it works through the composition process..................a group of very talented musicians in this film.
I remember a friend and I saw this Zappa creation in a nice indoor theater in Dallas when it first came out; we did some strong LSD during the drive to the theater.
When the Centerville sequence was on screen, my friend had to walk out for a while................too intense !

[miamiscot]

What's wrong with it? Do people actually dislike it? Who?

[Zappathustra]

What's wrong with it? Do people actually dislike it? Who?

who? Tarkus1980, Dobermensch, Warthur.
They are PROG REVIEWERS. At ProgArchives.

Apart from all the fun of it, am I mistaken to think this album does not have the greatest of reputations? I thought this was common ground.

[JJ88]

I don't think it's ever been seen as his best work, no. But I'd say it's faded from consciousness over recent years because it's stayed unavailable for so long.

[Zappathustra]

This town is a sealed tuna sandwich. These words, combined with this great melodic line, have wrought an indelible impression on my psyche.

A good thread - or a dissertation subject - would be all of Zappa's food references. Call any vegetables?

[trondis23]

Has anybody heard "200 motels, the suites", with Los Angeles Philharmonic and Esa-Pekka Salinen from 2013? I think it is pretty good.

[chalkpie]

Has anybody heard "200 motels, the suites", with Los Angeles Philharmonic and Esa-Pekka Salinen from 2013? I think it is pretty good.

I really liked it.

[Troopers For Sound]

I love it...even though it is pretty flawed in several respects. Particularly the sonics which are just a bit odd to my ears. But the Tuna Sandwich and Shove it Right In suites are amazing. Over time though the thing I love the most is the stuff that I didn't like at all 20 years ago which is all of the Nun Suit/Pleated Gazelle chamber ensemble pieces with Phyllis Bryn-Julson. Such an amazing voice. I'd love for Barbara Hannigan to have a go at that piece...

Matt.

[Zappathustra]

I love it...even though it is pretty flawed in several respects. Particularly the sonics which are just a bit odd to my ears. But the Tuna Sandwich and Shove it Right In suites are amazing. Over time though the thing I love the most is the stuff that I didn't like at all 20 years ago which is all of the Nun Suit/Pleated Gazelle chamber ensemble pieces with Phyllis Bryn-Julson. Such an amazing voice. I'd love for Barbara Hannigan to have a go at that piece...

Matt.

Who would ever put a female soprano sing with an operatic voice the romantic line "you certainly get me hot - and horny" ? The guy destroyed centuries of tradition with a single blow.

[JJ88]

The 'She Painted Up Her Face' suite is indeed a highlight...I can see where he was going with that, the fusion of high/low culture.

The way it was recorded is why it was sonically compromised, really.