Thread: Movies - Take Two. Action!

  1. #2226
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    I really don't know how much Hubbard has (had) to do with Scientology as it exists today.

    My father had a personal acquaintance who apparently got involved with the Church of Scientology and ended up being blackmailed by the church or someone there.

  2. #2227
    Irritated Lawn Guy Klonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer View Post
    While I agree with later posts (than yours) that the torture scene was squeamishly brutal, I just finished watching Polar and really was impressed. Great casting and a very high sleaze factor (not always a bad thing), along with bit parts by Johnny Knoxville & Richard Dreyfuss.
    The guy who played the lead is in an excellent, old school Western I recommended back behind all the scientology and handful of 850 word posts.
    "Who would have thought a whale would be so heavy?" - Moe

  3. #2228
    Quote Originally Posted by Klonk View Post
    The guy who played the lead is in an excellent, old school Western I recommended back behind all the scientology and handful of 850 word posts.
    Who the hell posts 850 word posts?

  4. #2229
    Quote Originally Posted by nycsteve View Post
    Who the hell posts 850 word posts?
    (raising hand sheepishly)

    Well, it's not like I do it on purpose!
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 02-13-2019 at 01:19 AM.

  5. #2230
    re: Hubbard

    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    wasn't he a Sci-Fi novelist in the beginning?
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Yes, and created Scientology on a bet.
    My understanding was, he originally created Scientology as some sort of satirical thing, then realized he realized that there were tax benefits to having your own religion.

    John Travolta's celebrated 90's era comeback came to a screeching end when he decided to turn one of Hubbard's phone book sized sci-fi novels into a really bad movie. From what I understand, the movie is only the first half of the book. Apparently, Travolta didn't do much editing, and apparently thought he was gonna get to do a sequel.

    I remember that Hubbard also wrote a ten book set, I think it was called Mission: Earth, or something like that. I remember seeing them at the library, and I borrowed the first volume, I think when I was in the 12th grade (a lot longer ago than I want to admit) and got a few chapters through before I had tot ake it back, and I never got around to following through on the rest of it. I seem to recall it was heavy on the satire, and rather amusing, but I thought a lot of Frank Zappa's lyrics were funny back then, too.

  6. #2231
    Irritated Lawn Guy Klonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    (raising hand)
    "Who would have thought a whale would be so heavy?" - Moe

  7. #2232
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    re: Hubbard

    My understanding was, he originally created Scientology as some sort of satirical thing, then realized he realized that there were tax benefits to having your own religion.
    OK. Let's set some facts straight.

    1) Hubbard was not "a Sci-Fi novelist in the beginning." He was a pulp writer who wrote adventure tales of all sorts, from the Western to military to whatever. His name on the cover of a magazine added notable sales to its normal numbers, so the publishers of Astonishing Science Fiction sat its editor down and said, "We're having Hubbard write some stuff for you. You will publish it, you will pay him your top rates, and you will put him on the cover." So they did.

    2) So Hubbard started writing SF. It was reasonably good adventure-type SF (with one notably good yarn, the novel Fear), and was reasonably popular with ASF's readership.

    3) Hubbard came up with, not Scientology, but Dianetics. This was a pseudo-scientific psychology that promised to "clear" your "reactive mind" of "engrams." A large number of intelligent people have claimed over the years that Dianetics helped them, from William S. Burroughs to Leonard Cohen. (That's what the line about "going clear" means in "Famous Blue Raincoat".) John Campbell, the ASF editor, was quite taken by Dianetics, and his magazine was the first place that the basic text of Dianetics was published (ASF always had "fact articles", and Campbell was a bit of an enthusiast for a number of kooky ideas, notably the Dean Drive, which claimed to turn circular motion directly into linear motion to propel a spaceship.)

    4) The medical/psychiatric establishment began to take notice of Dianetics, and accused their "auditors" of practicing medicine without a license, and Hubbard of quackery.

    5) What happened next is a little unclear. Several science-fiction people later claimed to have been at a party with Hubbard, where someone (possibly Hubbard, possibly Robert Heinlein, possibly someone else) commented that "if I were smart, I'd start a religion. That's where the big money is."

    6) In 1952, the Dianetics organization actually managed to go bankrupt, and Hubbard lost the rights to the Dianetics text.

    7) Later in 1952, Hubbard opened the Church of Scientology, a religion based on the idea that we are all reincarnations of space people. It proved significantly profitable - by the end of the first year, Hubbard had reacquired rights to the Dianetics text.

    Also of possible interest: Hubbard had, in 1945, participated in "the Babalon working," a sex magic ritual intended to summon an incarnation of Babalon, the supreme Thelemite Goddess. (The Scientology organization has claimed that he was doing this while underground for the US Navy, something that the Navy denies.)

    Finally, a disclaimer. I have had profitable dealings with an offshoot of Scientology/Dianetics, as a winner of the "Writers of the Future" contest. All the Scientologists I met at this time were very nice people (to the point where their constant cheerfulness sometimes seemed just a little freaky). I am not myself and never have been a member of the Church of Scientology.
    Maka ki ecela tehani yanke lo!

  8. #2233
    Pikachupacabra spellbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris
    John Travolta's celebrated 90's era comeback came to a screeching end when he decided to turn one of Hubbard's phone book sized sci-fi novels into a really bad movie. From what I understand, the movie is only the first half of the book. Apparently, Travolta didn't do much editing, and apparently thought he was gonna get to do a sequel.
    I didn't know that. Only knew he was making some decent, and successful, movies for a while, and then he wasn't. I probably didn't know he was a Scientologist at the time. I never heard that he was working on a Hubbard-novel movie. I guess it's my fault for not following the Hollywood tabloids.

  9. #2234
    Member hippypants's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think David Miscavige the current leader of Scientology after Hubbard's death has furthered and corrupted the cult into something a bit more criminal. Currently his wife is missing probably either in jail or dead. The organization is known for generally imprisoning people or "highly" coercing/controlling people. I will say one thing for Hubbard, even though I find him and Miscavige despicable--he knew how to make a cult. He built in so many control measures that insured, generally speaking, that once in, you'd stay in, is amazing.


    Vacancy--horror tale where a couple check into a hotel, but find out they are going to be used for the next snuff film.

  10. #2235
    Pikachupacabra spellbound's Avatar
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    Performance - the excellent 1970 movie starring James Fox, Mick Jagger, and Anita Pallenberg. If this R-rated film even played at theaters near me in 1970, I would have been too young to get in. Now available on DVD. Features an early Moog synthesizer. And, offscreen, the guitars of Ry Cooder and Lowell George.

  11. #2236
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post
    OK. Let's set some facts straight.

    1) Hubbard was not "a Sci-Fi novelist in the beginning." He was a pulp writer who wrote adventure tales of all sorts, from the Western to military to whatever. His name on the cover of a magazine added notable sales to its normal numbers, so the publishers of Astonishing Science Fiction sat its editor down and said, "We're having Hubbard write some stuff for you. You will publish it, you will pay him your top rates, and you will put him on the cover." So they did.

    2) So Hubbard started writing SF. It was reasonably good adventure-type SF (with one notably good yarn, the novel Fear), and was reasonably popular with ASF's readership.

    3) Hubbard came up with, not Scientology, but Dianetics. This was a pseudo-scientific psychology that promised to "clear" your "reactive mind" of "engrams." A large number of intelligent people have claimed over the years that Dianetics helped them, from William S. Burroughs to Leonard Cohen. (That's what the line about "going clear" means in "Famous Blue Raincoat".) John Campbell, the ASF editor, was quite taken by Dianetics, and his magazine was the first place that the basic text of Dianetics was published (ASF always had "fact articles", and Campbell was a bit of an enthusiast for a number of kooky ideas, notably the Dean Drive, which claimed to turn circular motion directly into linear motion to propel a spaceship.)

    4) The medical/psychiatric establishment began to take notice of Dianetics, and accused their "auditors" of practicing medicine without a license, and Hubbard of quackery.

    5) What happened next is a little unclear. Several science-fiction people later claimed to have been at a party with Hubbard, where someone (possibly Hubbard, possibly Robert Heinlein, possibly someone else) commented that "if I were smart, I'd start a religion. That's where the big money is."

    6) In 1952, the Dianetics organization actually managed to go bankrupt, and Hubbard lost the rights to the Dianetics text.

    7) Later in 1952, Hubbard opened the Church of Scientology, a religion based on the idea that we are all reincarnations of space people. It proved significantly profitable - by the end of the first year, Hubbard had reacquired rights to the Dianetics text.

    Also of possible interest: Hubbard had, in 1945, participated in "the Babalon working," a sex magic ritual intended to summon an incarnation of Babalon, the supreme Thelemite Goddess. (The Scientology organization has claimed that he was doing this while underground for the US Navy, something that the Navy denies.)

    Finally, a disclaimer. I have had profitable dealings with an offshoot of Scientology/Dianetics, as a winner of the "Writers of the Future" contest. All the Scientologists I met at this time were very nice people (to the point where their constant cheerfulness sometimes seemed just a little freaky). I am not myself and never have been a member of the Church of Scientology.
    good to actually have some facts. It's not something I will be looking into mind you, but watching exposes by cash-grab celebs on TV aint gonna get you the actual facts

    I like Chick's music and many of Cruise's films no matter what their personal beliefs are
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  12. #2237
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    (raising hand sheepishly)
    Why do you say "sheepishly"? If someone won't read or can't handle long posts, that's not your problem.
    I love sleeping. It's like being dead without the commitment.

  13. #2238
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    CHIPS - I thought I'd hate this movie. Didn't like the series or the TV actors. However, it was really funny and enjoyable. Big surprise.

  14. #2239
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    good to actually have some facts. It's not something I will be looking into mind you, but watching exposes by cash-grab celebs on TV aint gonna get you the actual facts
    Do a little research into Remini's personal story and personal experiences with Scientology and how it has cost her personal relationships in her immediate family as well as years of therapy to undo the harm done to her by "the church", and you will find that in this case, grabbing cash isn't on her radar. She is instead spending a whole lot of her own money to show all the reasons that they shouldn't be tax-exempt.

    And she has a shitload of documented facts, not just testimonies, to back up her assertions.
    "My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"

    President Harry S. Truman

  15. #2240
    Irritated Lawn Guy Klonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    Why do you say "sheepishly"? If someone won't read or can't handle long posts, that's not your problem.
    <raising hand sheepishly>

    No need to get all sensitive there...Chris is a good sport and I'm just bustin' balls. If it means anything, I'd rather read all those long posts than weed through this scientology bullshit.
    "Who would have thought a whale would be so heavy?" - Moe

  16. #2241
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klonk View Post
    <raising hand sheepishly>

    No need to get all sensitive there...Chris is a good sport and I'm just bustin' balls. If it means anything, I'd rather read all those long posts than weed through this scientology bullshit.
    I often see Chris' posts with a sense of dread but then find myself giggling along halfway through.
    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
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  17. #2242
    re: John Travolta

    Quote Originally Posted by spellbound View Post
    I didn't know that. Only knew he was making some decent, and successful, movies for a while, and then he wasn't. I probably didn't know he was a Scientologist at the time. I never heard that he was working on a Hubbard-novel movie. I guess it's my fault for not following the Hollywood tabloids.
    My recollection is that during that 90's era comeback, when he was doing all that stuff like Get Shorty, Pulp Fiction, etc, he made it publicly known he was a Scientologist, and he credited Scientology (or maybe it was Dianetics, in my mind, the two are sort of blurred together) with revitalizing his career. Or something like that. This wasn't just in the tabloids, he freely talked about Scientology in interviews regularly. I remember discussing it in a big Rolling Stone interview, for instance.

    The movie I was talking about is Battlefield Earth. The novel (which as I said is huge, the hardcover edition ran to 700 pages!) was published in 1982, and apparently, right from the start, John Travolta wanted to turn it into a pair of movies. But for various reasons, such a project never got off the ground until the late 90's. The movie came out in 2000, and they apparently intended to release a sequel (which presumably would have covered the back half of the book) but the commercial failure of the first picture, and the collapse of the studio that produced the movie, basically made a sequel unlikely.

    The film is considered by some to be one of the worst movies ever made, Wikipedia gives a list of the Golden Raspberry awards it received, including Worst Picture, Worst Director, Worst, Actor (Travolta), Worst Supporting Actors ( Barry Peppler, Forest Whittaker was also nominated), Worst Screenplay, Worst Supporting Actress (Kelly Preston), and Worst Screen Couple ("John Travolta and anyone sharing the screen with him"). That was all on in 2001. But it doesn't end there.

    In 2005, the movie won a further award for "Worst 'Drama' Of Our First 25 Years", then in 2010, it won "Worst Movie Of The Decade", with Travolta being nominated for "Worst Actor Of The Decade". Until the release of an Adam Sandler picture called Jack And Jill in 2012, this gave Battlefield Earth the dubious distinction of holding the record for the most Razzies awarded to one single picture.

  18. #2243
    Quote Originally Posted by hippypants View Post


    Vacancy--horror tale where a couple check into a hotel, but find out they are going to be used for the next snuff film.
    I saw that a few years ago. That's one hell of a crazy picture. Very suspenseful, I thought. Apparently, there's a sequel, which I wouldn't mind seeing.

    Quote Originally Posted by spellbound View Post
    Performance - the excellent 1970 movie starring James Fox, Mick Jagger, and Anita Pallenberg. If this R-rated film even played at theaters near me in 1970, I would have been too young to get in. Now available on DVD. Features an early Moog synthesizer. And, offscreen, the guitars of Ry Cooder and Lowell George.
    By "Features an early Moog synthesizer", you mean that one appears on the screen for like 30 seconds, as I recall, you don't actually hear it being used. Weird, artsy picture. Wouldn't mind seeing it again.

    You mention Ry Cooder, who was floating around the Stones' camp at the time. He apparently has accused Keith Richards of stealing the five string open G maneuver from him. I gather Ry showed him the open G tuning, and I guess given that he's complaining about it, I guess he showed Keith the basic lick that he's spun into countless Stones songs.

  19. #2244
    Pikachupacabra spellbound's Avatar
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    In Performance, I paid attention to the music credits as I always do. Besides Ry Cooder and Lowell George, other musicians credited include Jack Nitzsche, Gene Parsons, Buffy Sainte Marie, Merry Clayton and Randy Newman. Bernie Krause was credited with what little Moog playing there was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris
    By "Features an early Moog synthesizer", you mean that one appears on the screen for like 30 seconds, as I recall, you don't actually hear it being used. Weird, artsy picture. Wouldn't mind seeing it again.
    You're right, you don't hear the Moog while Mick is dicking around with it on screen. But I think there is some Moog playing in other parts of the movie.

    Thanks for further informing us about the Travolta chronicles. I liked Pulp Fiction and Get Shorty and a few other movies he did in the '90s. I'm sure there was plenty of gossip and several talk-show interviews at the time about his involvement with Scientology. I may have seen something but have since forgotten. I also missed a lot, of TV especially, due to being enrolled in college full time, and for other reasons during that decade. Mainly, my problem is I don't care what moviemakers do on their own time. As long as they don't go all Weinstein or otherwise harm anyone.

    I don't recall ever having seen Battlefield Earth. Something that bad, I'm sure I'd remember if I had to sit through it. At the time, I had yet to develop my geezer superpower of sleeping through movies or shows.

  20. #2245
    Member Dave the Brave's Avatar
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    Hubbard had an affair with the wife of Jack Parsons who was also a follower of Alistair Crowley and one of the founders of The Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

  21. #2246
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave the Brave View Post
    Hubbard had an affair with the wife of Jack Parsons who was also a follower of Alistair Crowley and one of the founders of The Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
    Correct; in fact, it was with Parsons and his wife (and others) that Hubbard did the "Babalon working."

    I could go on about this guy, but (a) it would further derail the thread, and (b) we're treading dangerously into religion here.
    Maka ki ecela tehani yanke lo!

  22. #2247
    Member Dave the Brave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post

    I could go on about this guy, but (a) it would further derail the thread, and (b) we're treading dangerously into religion here.
    Me too.

    I tried to join Anonymous because they are all about bringing down scientology, amonst other things. They rejected me.
    I am so into the study of LRH and scientology my wife thinks I'm trying to join.
    The total opposite is the fact.

    Have you noticed that mormonism, scientology and masonry have so much in common?

    DtB

  23. #2248
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave the Brave View Post

    Have you noticed that mormonism, scientology and masonry have so much in common?

    DtB
    There was a documentary I saw a few years ago called The Mormon Proposition, was basically about homophobia within the Mormon Church, and specifically dealing with how the Mormons funneled money through a other organizations (so as to not damage the Church's good standing with the public or whatever) to back California's Proposition 8 referendum, which was one of those anti-gay marriage deal that the Supreme Court eventually (and rightly) deemed to be unconstitutional.

    But I guess I should stop there since, once again, we're talking religion here, and that's a big no-no around here.

  24. #2249
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Is this thread about religion or movies? It was closed down once.

  25. #2250
    As fascinating as scientology might be I suggest dropping it before the movie thread is dropped again. I prefer the fantasy movies provide vs ....... other versions of fantasy. In this thread anyway.

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