Thread: Movies - Take Two. Action!

  1. #1726
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    I know this isn't the forum for this, but you guys reminded me of something I read in David Talbot's book, Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years: that some of the Secret Service agents looked over to the grassy knoll during the shooting of JFK.
    They're going to look everywhere, in every direction, because when someone fires a gun, you don't automatically know where the bullets are coming from. So any law enforcement/security personnel would be scanning the entire area, trying to figure out where the gunman is.

  2. #1727
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    All this was covered in the Seinfeld episode: The Boyfriend. The "magic loogie" theory!
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  3. #1728
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    someone once suggested to me that they think JFK was taken out because he was the only non-WASP president
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  4. #1729
    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    someone once suggested to me that they think JFK was taken out because he was the only non-WASP president
    Oh, there's all kinds of theories. There was a hilarious story in Doonesbury, circa the 30th anniversary, I believe, that hinged on Duke photoshopping himself into a bunch of photos taken at Dealey Plaza that day. When one of these photos surfaces (25 some odd years after Duke supposedly perpetrated his initial scam), a conspiracy theorist gets in touch with Duke, who, naturally, immediately sees a chance to continue the con. He basically gets the theorist to wire him some ridiculous fee, in exchange for a photo that he purports to be of him and Oswald (of course, the picture is so blurry you can't make out who or what it is). When Honey apparently questions the veracity of the picture, Duke says, "On occasion, it's also been a picture of Bigfoot!".

    So this leads up to a Sunday strip where I think it's Mark who presents the "composite" explanation that reconciles all the conspiracy theories. As I recall, it suggested that JFK was killed by the CIA, the FBI, La Cosa Nostra, the Cubans, the KGB, and I forget who all else.

    In one o fhis books, Robert Anton Wilson, suggested there were four gunmen: besides Oswald and the guy on the grassy knoll, there was also a guy at the county records building, and a guy on the triple overpass. It's suggested that Oswald actually spots the other three shooters through his rifle scope, and that's why he has that smirk on his face in pictures and film of him in detention, because he knew how many people were out to get Kennedy. It's also suggested that at least two of the other hitmen sussed out the same thing, as one of them exclaims, "How many people does it take to a kill a President these days?!".

    One story I remember hearing was that Lyndon Johnson ordered the hit because he didn't believe he'd live through 8 years of JFK (plus who knows how many years of RFK and/or Teddy), and wanted to be President right now!

    Then there's people who say it had something to do with his plans for Vietnam, people who say it had something to do with him being Catholic, something to do with Robert Kennedy's investigations on the mob, something to do with Marilyn Monroe, ad nauseam.

    There's a really good book that was put together in the early 90's, called Alternate Kennedys, which was a collection of short stories, sent in alternate timelines, about the Kennedy family. One presented the Kennedy brothers (Johnny, Eddie, Rob, and Joe Jr) as a rock n roll band, who end up saving Prime Minister Lennon from being assassinated by a young anarchist named Jagger (if you have to ask what the first names of the PM and the anarchist are, you're on the wrong forum). Another one had it that JFK himself planned the assassination, as an act of suicide, because he had been urged by the ghost of Marilyn Monroe to "join her in eternity". And so on. It was a really crazy book.

    The best story was probably the last one, which hinged on a child like JFK having actually survived the assassination, but with severe brain damage, and being taken care of, in secret, by his mother. It's actually a very sad story, made me cry when I read it, but then, I'm a softy, I guess.

  5. #1730
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Well, I suppose that depends on your definition of crazy. In the first place, there's also a lot of evidence that overturns a lot of the alleged evidence regarded the JFK conspiracy. For instance, one theory has it that there was no way Oswald could have fired the number of shots that were fired in whatever the space of time was, something like 20 seconds or whatever. Well, on this program, they demonstrated that it was absolutely possible to do it in the time frame in question, by having someone do it (and the guy that did it wasn't a Marine, as Oswald had been).

    Another thing was supposedly, there had to be a second shooter because of the way the JFK's head is thrown when one of the bullets hit him, it would have been "impossible" for the shot to have come from the book depository building. Yet, this show presented the science to explain how the kill shot, I guess it was, could have absolutely fired from Oswald's trajectory.

    You ever see the episode of King Of The Hill, where Dale realizes he has the Lincoln going in the wrong direction on his diorama? When he turns the car around, he suddenly realizes everything in the Warren Report could actually be true, and it causes him to have a nervous breakdown.

    As for conspiracies, this show demonstrated how conspiracies typically fall apart due to the fact, eventually someone talks. It's been what? 55 years? Don't you think if there was a conspiracy behind the JFK assassination, we'd have more than just theories and vague insinuations?

    And about Bellisario, he's created at least three long running, high rated TV shows (one of which has been on the air for more than 10 years now), so I'm not sure how thick headed he is. Also, before he went into television, he was a Marine, and guess who he served with! Yes, that's right, he at least to a certain extent, knew Lee Harvey Oswald, and I think his point of view was, that Oswald was completely crackers and was unlikely to have been involved in any conspiracy.

    While your point that Stone wasn't the first to put forth conspiracy theories about the JFK assassination, he put a target on his back by making that movie, so at the time, a lot of people who didn't buy into the theories were taking shots at him. And in fact, there were still people taking shots at Stone more than a decade later, because of that. Fortunately, he had a sense of humor about it, as demonstrated by his cameo in the movie Dave (where he's shown telling Larry King that he believes that the President has been replaced by a doppelganger, which in fact, he had been, but that's another story).

    Oh, and while maybe not everyone who buys into the conspiracy theories are "crazy", some of them most definitely are. This one guy I saw on this TV show seemed to be convinced that every President since JFK, as soon as he's been elected, is taken to a room by "the men who really run the country", and shown a film, shot from the grassy knoll, apparently demonstrating that they were the ones who had JFK bumped off because he didn't follow their agenda. Read any Orwell lately?
    I think you missed the point of my post on several levels. First of all, I wasn't trying to start a debate on the actual JFK assassination itself and do a detailed analysis of all the evidence both pro and con of the shooting. This wouldn't be the place for it and it would take a 500 page thread to go through it all. So I'm not going to respond to your specific examples of why you apparently think there is no way someone else could have been involved in the murder--it's all out there in multiple books, documentaries etc, some better than others.

    Second, my comment re if that TV producer thinks Stone was "crazy" to direct JFK as he did then he must logically have to think the director of Executive Action was crazy has nothing to do with MY definition of crazy, it has to do with what the TV producer defines as crazy, since he is the guy you quoted that used that term.

    Third, the point of my comment was how many people completely misunderstand the point of why Stone did the JFK film and others like it. It's not Stone saying "here's how I think it happened"--it's Stone saying "here is the story of the only prosecution ever brought over the JFK Assasination by a long time federal prosecutor, and I'm going to take that story and use all the other evidence and theories re how this COULD have been more than a single 'Oswald did it' story, throw it all in one film, and get people to THINK about the evidence, circumstances and the possibilities". He's a filmmaker, he's trying to encourage interest and critical thinking in examining this horrible and dark tragedy in American history, a tragedy that changed this country forever. He has never stated "everything in JFK is absolute fact".

    I saw Stone speak in a local theater a few years ago I think in conjunction with the 50th anniversary of the assassination where they did a special screening of JFK, and he spoke and did Q&A with the audience. He made the above points over and over and was quite clear that the point of the film was to reveal this little known story of the Louisiana prosecution AND get people to THINK of all the issues and evidence of the possibility of more than Oswalds involvement, while also putting this tragic historical event into context of the bigger picture (Vietnam, Cold War, power of the CIA etc). So if you also think any film about an alternative to the "Oswald acted completely alone theory" is "crazy" like that TV exec said, you're also missing the point of why those films were made.
    Last edited by DocProgger; 12-17-2018 at 03:00 PM.

  6. #1731
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    They're going to look everywhere, in every direction, because when someone fires a gun, you don't automatically know where the bullets are coming from. So any law enforcement/security personnel would be scanning the entire area, trying to figure out where the gunman is.
    Mammals are binaural. Meaning they have two ears. You ever watch a cat listening to a sound and how it can move its ears independently? It hears a sound from a particular direction and one of its ears will move in that direction. It is pinpointing where the sound came from. Humans can't move their ears so they move their head towards the direction of the sound.
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  7. #1732
    GG also said:
    "As for conspiracies, this show demonstrated how conspiracies typically fall apart due to the fact, eventually someone talks. It's been what? 55 years? Don't you think if there was a conspiracy behind the JFK assassination, we'd have more than just theories and vague insinuations?"

    I've watched almost every legit JFK documentary around, read several books on both sides of the issue. Again, no way we can go thru all this point by point, but consider this:

    1. The most basic tried and true Mafia tactic is to kill the person who could talk and bring down/expose the conspiracy. Consider the ludicrous and almost immediate killing of the supposed lone shooter himself, right in the Dallas police station WHILE he's in custody of the Dallas police, with hundreds of people around.

    2. There is documented evidence of the deaths of literally dozens of persons connected in some way to the JFK assas under unusual circumstances shortly after Nov 1963.

    3. Many people have talked and not kept silent, and their stories are recounted in many written books and some interviews on these documentaries.

    4. If it was a "conspiracy" at a high govt level such as the CIA, it's reasonable to believe that only a very small number of people would be actually involved and know the whole big picture, and steps would be taken so that other people involved would not know "the big picture".

    5. You also seem to think the only 2 possibilities are that 1) Oswald did it completely alone and 2) there were multiple gunman. The JFK film also considers the possibility that Oswald was used by others to do the shooting. That possibility always seems to be overlooked. (PS, that would also be a conspiracy).

    If you think all the facts and evidence out there amounts to just "vague insinuations" then I would say you're deluding yourself.
    But again, the point of these films (Executive Action, JFK etc) is to make you think about the facts and be inquisitive about history. To just reject such films with a knee-jerk "that's crazy" is crazy in itself.
    Last edited by DocProgger; 12-17-2018 at 11:39 PM.

  8. #1733
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    All this was covered in the Seinfeld episode: The Boyfriend. The "magic loogie" theory!
    Exactly, and Jerry did a heckuva job explaining it. "Back, and to the left...."
    The great thing about that scene is that Newman (Wayne Knight) plays the same role there as he did in the JFK film.
    Last edited by DocProgger; 12-17-2018 at 03:31 PM.

  9. #1734
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    1. The most basic tried and true Mafia tactic is to kill the person who could talk and bring down/expose the conspiracy. Consider the ludicrous and almost immediate killing of the supposed lone shooter himself, right in the Dallas police station WHILE he's in custody of the Dallas police, with hundreds of people around.
    I was going to mention that but when you read the conversation between him and Earl Warren, it's hard to know what his motivation was.

    The JFK film also considers the possibility that Oswald was used by others to do the shooting. That possibility always seems to be overlooked.
    Which would explain why Oswald said he was a patsy.

    Here's another thing that doesn't make any sense that was pointed out in a book I read: why did Oswald purchase the rifle by mail order when Texas had (& still has) plenty of gun stores and lax gun laws... unless a paper trail was needed.

    If you think all the facts and evidence out there...
    And we still don't know everything. More documents were supposed to be released last year but Pres Trump blocked most of them at the urging of the FBI and CIA, so only about 2800 documents ended up being declassified.
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  10. #1735
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    Here's another thing that doesn't make any sense that was pointed out in a book I read: why did Oswald purchase the rifle by mail order when Texas had (& still has) plenty of gun stores and lax gun laws... unless a paper trail was needed.


    .
    Not to mention doing the shooting from your place of work, leaving the rifle right there without even trying to hide it or dispose of it, how quickly Oswald was caught and the podunk hick Dallas police supposedly completely solved the biggest assassination in US History (along with Lincoln) in a matter of hours etc etc.....most shoplifting cases take longer to investigate even with video surveillance....
    Last edited by DocProgger; 12-18-2018 at 09:15 PM.

  11. #1736
    Member hippypants's Avatar
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    If that whole JFK thing interest you check out Jerry Kroth, who is (or was) a professor in California. He has other videos that are interesting if you have an open mind, and again have interest in that sort of thing.



  12. #1737
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    This might be the best trailer of the year

    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  13. #1738
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    ^^^ LMAO! Love it.
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  14. #1739
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Penny Marshall passed away, yesterday. She was 75.

    Her movies were good, I guess, but I would also say she directed one of the best movies of the '90s: Awakenings, the story about neurologist Oliver Sacks, that starred Robert DeNiro and Robin Williams.
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  15. #1740
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    Penny Marshall passed away, yesterday. She was 75.

    Her movies were good, I guess, but I would also say she directed one of the best movies of the '90s: Awakenings, the story about neurologist Oliver Sacks, that starred Robert DeNiro and Robin Williams.
    I think it was Tom Hanks who said he had to "translate" for the cast of A League Of Their Own, because he had worked with her before, on Big. I guess her Bronx accent could be difficult to decipher for some people. Of course, she was also great on Laverne And Shirley.

  16. #1741
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    I always understood every word Penny Marshall said. Oh wait.....

    RIP to a talented lady.
    "My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"

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  17. #1742
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    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer View Post
    I always understood every word Penny Marshall said. Oh wait.....
    Even when she was Oscar Madison's secretary "Myrnah Turnah"?
    No matter how corrupt, greedy, and heartless our government, our corporations, our media, and our religious and charitable institutions may become, the music will still be wonderful. - Kurt Vonnegut

  18. #1743
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Yeah, sad about Penny Marshall. Oscar Madison's secretary. And more of course.

    On a different note, I finally watched "Hereditary" last weekend. I thought it was very good - I was hooked throughout. I had a couple of questions afterward, so I read a bit online. It all makes sense more or less, and had a more satisfying ending than a lot of horror films.

  19. #1744
    Pikachupacabra spellbound's Avatar
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    RIP Penny Marshall.

    Great 'Life of Brian' Trailer.

  20. #1745
    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer View Post
    I always understood every word Penny Marshall said. Oh wait.....
    Well, I did say some people had difficulty with it.

    FYI: TCM is showing a Burt Reynolds marathon next Wednesday. They're showing both Smokey And The Bandit movies*, Deliverance, The Longest Yard (the real one, not the remake, natch), and something called Best Friends. Just in case you might care to tune in. Check your local listings. That is all.

    *I disavow any and all knowledge of the existence of a picture called Smokey And The Bandit 3.

  21. #1746
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Well, I did say some people had difficulty with it.

    FYI: TCM is showing a Burt Reynolds marathon next Wednesday. They're showing ...something called Best Friends.
    hmm... seems to me the "other" movie they shoulda shown is The End
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  22. #1747
    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    hmm... seems to me the "other" movie they shoulda shown is The End
    Yeah, that would have been one option. Personally, I would have gone a full 24 hour marathon, and tossed in The Cannonball Run (first one, only), Shark, and Operation: CIA.

    I loved that episode of Archer where Sterling finds out his mother is having an affair with Burt. When Archer's telling him about his favorite movies, at one point, Burt says, "That movie was awful!".

  23. #1748
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    Penny Marshall passed away, yesterday. She was 75.

    Her movies were good, I guess, but I would also say she directed one of the best movies of the '90s: Awakenings, the story about neurologist Oliver Sacks, that starred Robert DeNiro and Robin Williams.
    Oh that's sad. I always liked her.

  24. #1749
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    Awesome trailer!
    "And this is the chorus.....or perhaps it's a bridge...."

  25. #1750
    Member Lou's Avatar
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    Bird Box

    Caught this Netflix original tonight. Description from IMDB...Five years after an ominous unseen presence drives most of society to suicide, a mother and her two children make a desperate bid to reach safety.

    Sandra Bullock is superb as the reluctant mother in this. She also looks freaking amazing for her age! Part suspense, part horror, part survival film. Cast includes John Malkovich
    and Sarah Paulsen. Highly recommended.
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