Thread: Movies - Take Two. Action!

  1. #1276
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    If you feel like it, please do. I'm always interested in that kind of thing.
    Okay, I've got nine photos and two videos. I could come up with more but this should be enough.

    This first one is taken from early in the movie just after the family has arrived at the Overlook. Ullman asks Jack about his luggage and he points to it. It's in the background. You can even see Danny's Big Wheel amongst the luggage. What's odd about this? They drove up in a VW Beetle.

    Luggage.jpg

    Speaking of that VW, the one in the movie is yellow. Supposedly, the one in the book is red. Kubrick references it late in the movie as the cook Dick Halloran is driving in from the airport:

    43248803890_a8a0a11d1d_b.jpg

    Jack & Wendy get a tour of the place from Ullman. The top of the photo is during that tour. The bottom is when Wendy & Danny are going into the maze. Note the map of the maze is missing in the bottom photo. In fact, as the camera continues to track right, it stops right in front of the maze map sign.

    Maze Sign.jpg

    Before Jack finally settles in to start writing, there's a scene where he's throwing a tennis ball. Just before that is the shot of the typewriter (top). Later, Wendy interrupts Jack to see how he's coming along (bottom). The typewriter has changed from white to gray. It's not as obvious in this frame but this is the earliest appearance of the gray one:

    Typewriters.jpg
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  2. #1277
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    That scene when Wendy interrupts Jack is the first time we see Jack behave badly. He's incredibly rude to the point of being a total asshole. These frames were taken from three reaction shots of Jack in that scene; and, yes, they're in chronological order:

    Chair.jpg

    The following are my favorites.

    The first is just after Grady spills the drinks on Jack and takes him in the restroom to clean him off. Jack puts his drink on a partition and Grady puts his tray of drinks between two sinks. Note where they are in the top frame vs the bottom:

    Drinks.jpg

    This one is when Danny's riding around on his Big Wheel and rides by Room 237; he's looking back and to the left at it. In the top frame, to the right is what I would guess is room 234 (could be 238, too). You see it in the bottom frame as well:

    Door 234.jpg

    The first time we see a major incongruity that is easily recognizable is when Dick Halloran is giving Wendy & Danny a tour of the kitchen. In the first frame (top left) you can see the kitchen in the background as Halloran is reaching for the door. As he opens it, the movie cuts to an interior shot of the freezer looking out at Halloran (top right). He, Wendy, & Danny all go inside as he tells them all the different meats they have on hand. They then walk out and head back to the kitchen (bottom left and right):

    Freezer.jpg
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  3. #1278
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    There's a lot going on in this next one. I think it's cool... and a real mind fucker. These are four frames taken from the scene when Danny is playing with his cars and a tennis ball rolls up to him from seemingly nowhere, leading him to go into Room 237:

    Carpet.jpg

    In the first frame (top left) is Danny looking down the hall just after the ball has rolled up to him. The second looks down the hall with Danny in the near foreground. The third is a medium close up of Danny. The last is looking down the hall, again, from Danny's point of view.

    I could explain what's going on, but I'll let you all figure it out (there are four different things going on; and no, the cars aren't involved). I will give you a hint to what you're seeing, tho: in the top right corner of the first frame is the bottom left corner of the elevator door you see in the third frame.

    This first video is a portion of the second time Danny is riding his Big Wheel. What's interesting about the scene is that when it begins, he's essentially in the same spot as the photo above. If you draw on a piece of paper the route he takes, he makes a 9. So, just after the scene begins, he rides by Room 237, which is on his right. When he gets to 237 again, it's now on his left. But none of that is in this video. It's just something to look out for the next time you see the movie.

    In this video, you will see red elevator doors on the right. Danny then makes two rights after passing them. You then see some hotel rooms. If you think about where the first room on the right is, especially in relation to the elevator doors, you'll realize that the elevator shaft has to be in the middle of that room. lol



    This video is when Danny is in the game room and sees the two girls for the first time. This one is really subtle and you'd probably not even notice if you're just watching the movie. When Danny starts taking the darts out of the board, he stops, turns around, and sees the girls. There's a cut to the girls, a cut back to Danny, a cut back to the girls, and a final cut back to Danny. I edited out the last two cuts to Danny so you can see how the first shot of the girls is different from the second.

    Now, some may argue that it's too subtle to be on purpose, especially given some of the other errors of continuity I pointed out. However, in addition to those errors is also a very subtle change of camera angle. Trust me, when you're talking about Kubrick and cinematographer John Alcott, this was no mistake.

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  4. #1279
    Member frinspar's Avatar
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    The carpet stuff is pretty dang obvious seeing them together like that. His position changed 180 degrees, and the ashtray appears in the last one at the far left end.

    The luggage is a weird one, would take up more space than is in the car, they had no trailer.
    The maze display disappearing and being replaced with the bench is a big one.
    The freezer/kitchen one is pretty blatant. Damn. Took me a second to get the space right in my head, but that's really severe.

    I have heard some of the talk about him sending a message about the moon landing and all that. But I also wonder if some of these things were meant to elicit a sense of uncertainty in viewers. They were manipulating the "reality" in the movie to make viewers guess about what they're seeing, pushing doubt onto everything they think they've seen along the way.
    There's such a low-grade but constant sense of dread and uneasiness in the presentation, that such changes could tickle the subconscious to react even more strongly from such triggers.

    Surprisingly, this wasn't one we covered in my film classes in college, so I'm just spitballing.

    But those are all cool.

    What's weird is that I generally find myself noticing continuity errors pretty easily in movies, but I can easily say that I've never paid attention to The Shining in such a way that any of that registered with me.
    Welp, guess what I'll be watching again soon?

  5. #1280
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    It had to be deliberate on Stanley's part but to what end? He was meticulous beyond reason, a perfectionist without mercy. I have no answers but I'm intrigued.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  6. #1281
    More of an aside/trivia, but does everyone know that Ridley Scott borrowed some apparantly unused or extra footage Kubrick had shot for The Shining of the mountain scenery and the winding road they were driving on the way to the Overlook for the closing theatrical ending of Bladerunner to depict Harrison Ford and Sean Young escaping to their uncertain future (ie the happy ending version)? The studio hated Scott's planned original downer ending and he had to scramble to come up with a more positive pastoral conclusion. Kind of a weird unique connection.
    Last edited by DocProgger; 10-02-2018 at 08:53 PM.

  7. #1282
    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    More of an aside/trivia, but does everyone know that Ridley Scott borrowed some apparantly unused or extra footage Kubrick had shot for The Shining of the mountain scenery and the winding road they were driving on the way to the Overlook for the closing theatrical ending of Bladerunner to depict Harrison Ford and Sean Young escaping to their uncertain future (ie the happy ending version)? .
    Actually, it's more like the studio who "borrowed" said footage, but yeah, I remember hearing that story about 20-25 years ago, whenever it was that the first director's cut came out.
    It had to be deliberate on Stanley's part but to what end?
    Maybe to frell with our heads? I get the impression he'd do crazy stuff just to mess with people. At least a few of the people who worked on his movies ended up having to go into therapy, just from having to deal with Kubrick.

  8. #1283
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Actually, it's more like the studio who "borrowed" said footage,
    You must not have read my complete post.

    Like I said, the studio forced him to come up with a different ending, but it was Scott who contacted Kubrick.
    Quote from Scott himself:

    "I had finished Blade Runner, and it was a disaster. My investors were giving me a really hard time, saying 'You can't end the film with picking up a piece of origami, looking at the girl, walk in the elevator, nod, and bingo that's it.' I said, 'It's called a film noir.' And they said, 'What's a film noir?' That was a big problem. And he said, 'We have to test this with an uplifting ending, where they will go off into the wilderness together.' I said, 'Well if they go off into a beautiful wilderness, why do they live in this dystopian environment?'"

    "By then I had talked to Stanley [Kubrick] a few times. I said, 'I know you shot the hell out of The Shining, can I have some of the stuff?' So at the end of the film in Blade Runner, that's Stanley Kubrick's footage."

  9. #1284
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    The carpet stuff is pretty dang obvious seeing them together like that. His position changed 180 degrees, and the ashtray appears in the last one at the far left end.
    This is the one that took me the longest to figure out because I didn't have stills to compare. But, look at it again. Btw, if you right click and open in a new tab or window, it will be slightly larger; I kept this photo the largest so you can see the detail, better.

    I had originally thought the first frame was shot with Danny on a big piece of carpet with nothing around, until I noticed the elevator door. Recall what I said about the first frame: in the top right corner is the bottom left corner of the elevator door you see in the third frame. It's much more noticeable on a large screen TV. Now, if you compare the first frame with the third, Danny has been moved forward and diagonally to his left. If you think of it like a chessboard (which apparently figures prominently in 2001), in the third frame he's now three spaces away from the elevator on the diagonal.

    And if you compare the first frame with both the second and third, you'll see the big beige thing next to the elevators is missing, as are the chair and the coffee table. In fact, he's also three spaces away from the chair, on the diagonal. It's like Danny's a bishop in a game of chess. Hmmm. Interesting. I hadn't considered that before. Anyway, here's a diagram of the first frame:

    Carpet CE.jpg

    I don't think I'd consider the missing chair, table, and beige thing (what is that, anyway?) continuity errors. I think the first shot is meant to convey Danny's isolation.

    Anyway, what I find most compelling is that, if you consider the hexagon and line shapes in the carpet as arrows, an arrow is pointing at Danny. But once he's moved, the arrows are pointing him down the hall... toward room 237. [cue eerie music]

    The freezer/kitchen one is pretty blatant. Damn. Took me a second to get the space right in my head, but that's really severe.
    I know, right? From the first shot to the second, the hinges are on opposite sides of the door. And if you compare the first & fourth frames, you'll see that the door he's about to open in the first is the one that's behind them in the fourth.

    I have heard some of the talk about him sending a message about the moon landing and all that.
    Yeah, that's the conspiracy theory I was referring to that I don't buy into. However, that said, look at Danny's sweater in the carpet photos.

    But I also wonder if some of these things were meant to elicit a sense of uncertainty in viewers. They were manipulating the "reality" in the movie to make viewers guess about what they're seeing, pushing doubt onto everything they think they've seen along the way.
    I agree. Kubrick is trying to instill confusion into the viewer. And, that's a great interpretation. Roger Ebert said something similar, as have others. Not to imply you stole his idea or anything.

    Some movies are psychological horror rather than supernatural horror. Rosemary's Baby is a classic example. And I've seen it argued that The Haunting is, which I totally disagree with. And Ebert implied as much with The Shining. The Shining, however, is both, evidenced by the fact that Jack goes batty and by the end of the movie Wendy is seeing all kinds of weird shit. So, my take on all the incongruities and continuity errors is that the hotel is as psychotic as Jack becomes.

    There's such a low-grade but constant sense of dread and uneasiness in the presentation, that such changes could tickle the subconscious to react even more strongly from such triggers.
    Agreed. And I think that's the brilliance of The Shining. Other movies like Rosemary's Baby or The Exorcist or even The Haunting lack that sense of dread.

    What's weird is that I generally find myself noticing continuity errors pretty easily in movies, but I can easily say that I've never paid attention to The Shining in such a way that any of that registered with me.
    And that's the brilliance of Kubrick.

    Welp, guess what I'll be watching again soon?
    Funny thing for me was that even when I began approaching it from an academic point of view, I still couldn't help but get caught up in the story. I realized later, it appears Kubrick tones down the continuity errors. Still, I think the confusing floor plan of the hotel kind of doubles the hedge maze outside so that you never know where someone is in relation to any possible danger, which adds to the tension.

    There's an artist named Juli Kearns who was interviewed for the documentary. On her website is an in-depth analysis of the movie; she's also mapped out the strange floor plan of the hotel. I haven't read any of it, yet, but I should, if only to get more ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    It had to be deliberate on Stanley's part but to what end? He was meticulous beyond reason, a perfectionist without mercy. I have no answers but I'm intrigued.
    I'd venture to say the vast majority of people aren't going to notice any of these things, but your mind will register it unconsciously. That freezer scene should be obvious but you're focusing on the characters and the dialogue so you don't notice. According to that documentary, Kubrick had learned of subliminal advertising and picked the brain of someone in advertising about it. I think the intended effect is to make you feel uneasy and/or confused, if only in the back your mind.

    You know, when I was younger, The Shining was my favorite movie, even after I saw A Clockwork Orange, which I became infatuated with for a considerable period of time. For me, over time The Shining kind of lost its sheen. Dr Strangelove has since become my favorite movie, even tho I consider 2001 the greatest movie ever made. Still, I considered The Shining one of Kubrick's four best films, and I must say, after looking at all of this stuff and rewatching it a couple times, I must say it's as brilliant as Dr Strangelove and A Clockwork Orange... and maybe even 2001.
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  10. #1285
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    BTW, if you're going to look for any of the weirdness in The Shining, here are some others to look for:
    - The window in Ullman's office where Jack has his interview. Supposedly, the office is in the middle of the building so there shouldn't be a window there.

    And a few others I found:
    - The lamps in the Torrance's room at the hotel. One disappears completely. Others move or are swapped out with a different one.
    - The table between the bed and the bathroom door, also in their room.
    - The little painting above their bed.
    - The pen on Ullman's desk when Wendy is talking on the radio.

    There are other things pointed out in the documentary but I didn't find them plausible, such as the doors in their room that lead to nowhere.
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  11. #1286
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Awesome stuff, Hal. I've been dying to watch this with my daughter, and now we'll have to watch the documentary and "close watch" it a second time. She's learned about "close reading" in her English class, so she's into this type of analysis.
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  12. #1287
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    Hold The Dark (2018)

    After the deaths of three children suspected to be killed by wolves, writer Russell Core is hired by the parents of a missing six-year-old boy to track down and locate their son in the Alaskan wilderness.

    Netflix mystery/thriller from director Jeremy Saulnier ( Blue Ruin, Green Room)

    Worth a watch, but not as good as his previous two .
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  13. #1288
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    I went to see Gaga & Bradley Cooper's A Star Is Born for my "cleaning person" escape today. It lived up to the hype for me. Gaga's music AND her acting (no surprise-see American Horror Story) were superb, and Cooper can sing. I see Oscar nominations aplenty for this movie.

    Two surprises for me: An incredibly believable, nuanced almost poignant performance by, of all people, Andrew Dice Clay as Gaga's character's father. While Gaga & Cooper together drop over a hundred F-bombs, Dice=zero. For the more prurient viewer, you do get to see Gaga's boobs and even a nanosecond full frontal nude shot.

    Second surprise was near the beginning on the movie, when Ally (Gaga) is still an unknown and superstar Cooper's driver comes to her house to pick her up, she opens the door wearing pajama bottoms and a long-sleeved Yes t-shirt, bigass logo & all.
    Last edited by progeezer; 10-05-2018 at 10:17 PM.
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  14. #1289
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    But we all know Yes are a solution to sleep deprivation.
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  15. #1290
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    I saw a Romantic Drama with my girlfriend this week, Life Itself. Very unusual plot with many twists and turns but seamlessly interweaving a convincing story line.

  16. #1291
    Stir Crazy: classic Richard Pryor/Gene Wilder vehicle from 1980. I remember when this movie came out, seeing the trailer on TV, and wanting to see it after laughing myself silly at the "We're bad" bit as they walk into the jail holding cell after their initial arrest. Much better movie than I remembered it being, and I had no idea it was directed by Sidney Poitier. Incredibly funny picture!

    Another thing I remember from when it first came out was seeing the actor who played Grossberger on a talk show, where he sang an aria. Wikipedia says he graduated from MIT in the mid 70's with a degree in computer sciences (IT was his main gig) and sometimes performed with opera companies. Alas, he passed away in 1987, having only appeared in four movies (apparently, he turned down at least one role because he didn't want to shave his head again, as he did for Stir Crazy).

  17. #1292
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Just watched "Sicario." Very good film, brutal and suspenseful.

    Speaking of remakeitis, my son reminded me that Denis Villeneuve is redoing "Dune." Now THAT should be interesting. David Lynch's was weird enough to feel very different from the book, and I'm sure this will feel very different from Lynch's movie. Anyone know who's doing the music? Styx? (ha-ha!)

  18. #1293
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Sicario is indeed a fine film but my sis kind of spoiled it for me (not deliberately). So that last scene played out as an add-on. Still good, though.

  19. #1294
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer View Post
    I went to see Gaga & Bradley Cooper's A Star Is Born for my "cleaning person" escape today. It lived up to the hype for me. Gaga's music AND her acting (no surprise-see American Horror Story) were superb, and Cooper can sing. I see Oscar nominations aplenty for this movie.

    Two surprises for me: An incredibly believable, nuanced almost poignant performance by, of all people, Andrew Dice Clay as Gaga's character's father. While Gaga & Cooper together drop over a hundred F-bombs, Dice=zero. For the more prurient viewer, you do get to see Gaga's boobs and even a nanosecond full frontal nude shot.

    Second surprise was near the beginning on the movie, when Ally (Gaga) is still an unknown and superstar Cooper's driver comes to her house to pick her up, she opens the door wearing pajama bottoms and a long-sleeved Yes t-shirt, bigass logo & all.
    So, is the prog nerd more excited about the bewbs or the Yes shirt?
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  20. #1295
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    Neither, just reportage.
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    President Harry S. Truman

  21. #1296
    Irritated Lawn Guy Klonk's Avatar
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    Terrifier

    Holy crap Pennywise has nothing on this fucked up clown DEFINITELY not for the squeamish!

    It's a pretty safe bet that only Lou and possibly Nosebone would appreciate this. Continue on...
    "Who would have thought a whale would be so heavy?" - Moe

  22. #1297
    Member Lou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klonk View Post
    Terrifier

    Holy crap Pennywise has nothing on this fucked up clown DEFINITELY not for the squeamish!

    It's a pretty safe bet that only Lou and possibly Nosebone would appreciate this. Continue on...
    Indeed! I enjoyed it immensely. It was cool that the clown said nothing throughout the film. Added to his creepiness!
    A Comfort Zone is not a Life Sentence

  23. #1298
    Irritated Lawn Guy Klonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    Indeed! I enjoyed it immensely. It was cool that the clown said nothing throughout the film. Added to his creepiness!
    Right?! There's no plot as far as I can see but damn this was a good ol, old school, grindhousey time! I may not ever break a wishbone for good luck at a Thanksgiving get together again
    "Who would have thought a whale would be so heavy?" - Moe

  24. #1299
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Enjoying Sicario yesterday somehow made me watch "The Hurt Locker" today. Similarly intense and disturbing, definitely worth seeing.

  25. #1300
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Speaking of remakeitis, my son reminded me that Denis Villeneuve is redoing "Dune." Now THAT should be interesting. David Lynch's was weird enough to feel very different from the book, and I'm sure this will feel very different from Lynch's movie. Anyone know who's doing the music? Styx? (ha-ha!)
    I've never read the book, but I had the understanding the Lynch movie followed by the book pretty closely. I thought I had read that Frank Herbert saw it, and recognized his dialog in the picture.

    In a related matter, I still wish Alejandro Jodorowsky had been able to make his version of Dune. There's a good documentary called Jodorowsky's Dune, about that whole project. Jodo wanted to have a different band to do the music that was to represent each of the three planets in the story. The movie mentions Magma and Pink Floyd (with Vander himself being interviewed), but I believe I read that one point, Henry Cow were also to have been involved. And he got top flight talent from all the various fields involved in the picture, including special efx man Dan O'Bannon and the artists Moebius and H.R. Giger (wait for it...)

    But apparently, the script that Jodo had come up with was the size of a phone book and would have resulted in an 11 hour movie. When he went to L.A. to shop the film the around to the studios, naturally, they wanted to take control of the project (probably edit it down, no doubt) and Jodo refused such intervention, so the film never got made.

    I was trying to explain to someone at work why someone would make a documentary about a movie that never got made. It's hard to explain to "normal" people, because they don't think in these kind of terms, but I think Jodo's Dune project is important, if for no other reason than that's where Dan O'Bannon and H.R. Giger met, and thus, that's how they came together to make a little movie called Alien.

    And I think besides that, I think it's just an mind boggling that this guy dragged all these different talented people, everyone from Christian Vander to Giger to Mick Jagger to Salvador Dali got as far into the pre-production of a film that was, let's face it, unlikely to ever have been made, before the whole thing got binned. And apparently, even though it was never made, it can be argued that it was still highly influential.
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 10-06-2018 at 11:04 PM.

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