Thread: Movies - Take Two. Action!

  1. #851
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Meaning what?

    Talkign about miscasting, I still say Johnny Depp was miscast in The Lone Ranger. I'm sorry, but in this day and age, there's no reason to cast a white actor in a Native American role. I don't care how famous he is, he's the wrong man for the job. Period. Especially considering that on the TV show, Tonto was played by an actual Native American, so having a white guy play him in a movie 50 years later seems like a massive step backwards. You need a famous white guy to be in the movie? Cast him as The Lone Ranger himself!

    Meaning I had deja vu because I was discussing the subject of miscasting on another website forum.

    Anyway, the point still stands re Johnny Depp in Lone Ranger. He was not miscast, he was very deliberately cast. Yes, on the face of it unsuitable in many peoples eyes, but his name attached to the project probably helped to get the movie financed and made.

    Sure, there are probably many native american actors who could have played the role, but how many have Depp's pulling power?

    And its not about whether you like Depp or not either...but he's a box office draw, no question.

    It sucks in many ways I agree, but these are the cold harsh realities of the movie industry.
    I only clicked on it because I thought it was going to be something more interesting...

  2. #852
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dio, Alabama
    Posts
    1,697
    Depp would have made a good Speed Racer if they did that movie without the campiness that we unfortunately received.

  3. #853
    Pikachupacabra spellbound's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Eastern Sierra
    Posts
    1,258
    I did hunt down and watch The Squid and the Whale. Pretty good movie. Jeff Daniels' character is a far cry from that in Dumb and Dumber.
    Can this be the swan song? The final elbow?

  4. #854
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    Depp claimed he had some Cherokee in his ancestry but that turned out to be bullshit.
    Actually, what I remember reading was that he claimed to have Native American blood. He specified a particular tribe, which set off alarm bells for me, because anyone I know who brags about their heritage like that, they can tell you exactly where they came from, in this case, they know exactly which tribe, which one of the ancestors came from said tribe, etc. It's like saying "Oh, I have European blood", instead of saying "Oh, my grandfather came from Italy in 1920" or whatever.
    Anyway, the point still stands re Johnny Depp in Lone Ranger. He was not miscast, he was very deliberately cast. Yes, on the face of it unsuitable in many peoples eyes, but his name attached to the project probably helped to get the movie financed and made.
    Yeah, because that's exactly what the world needed: another bad Lone Ranger retread. And like I said, if they needed to have Johnny Depp in the movie itself (as opposed to, say, being a director or producer or whatever), then he should have been playing a white character, not a role that should have been off limits to him from the get go.

    Sure, there are probably many native american actors who could have played the role, but how many have Depp's pulling power?
    I don't give a frell about Depp's "pulling power". Yeah, I get it, Mr. 21 Jump Street sells movie tickets. Great. Then cast him as the Lone Ranger, not as Tonto.

    I mean, what's next? Johnny Depp playing John Shaft?! Or maybe he can play Black Vulcan in a Super Friends movie. Or how about Cliff Huxtable?! Chet Kincaid, maybe?

    BTW, for purposes of full disclosure, one of my favorite movies, Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins, has a white actor playing an Asian character (was Joel Grey that famous?). Also, one of the classic Tom Baker era Doctor Who serials, The Talons Of Wang Chiang, similarly features a white actor playing an Asian. So you can perhaps take this whole argument as the words and thoughts of a hypocrite.

  5. #855
    Oh, btw, I thought Johnny Depp was great in A Nightmare On Elm Street, Private Resort, and Edward Scissorhands.

  6. #856
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Dio, Alabama
    Posts
    1,697
    I am fond of What’s Eating Gilbert Grape.

  7. #857
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Actually, what I remember reading was that he claimed to have Native American blood. He specified a particular tribe, which set off alarm bells for me, because anyone I know who brags about their heritage like that, they can tell you exactly where they came from, in this case, they know exactly which tribe, which one of the ancestors came from said tribe, etc. It's like saying "Oh, I have European blood", instead of saying "Oh, my grandfather came from Italy in 1920" or whatever.


    Yeah, because that's exactly what the world needed: another bad Lone Ranger retread. And like I said, if they needed to have Johnny Depp in the movie itself (as opposed to, say, being a director or producer or whatever), then he should have been playing a white character, not a role that should have been off limits to him from the get go.


    I don't give a frell about Depp's "pulling power". Yeah, I get it, Mr. 21 Jump Street sells movie tickets. Great. Then cast him as the Lone Ranger, not as Tonto.

    I mean, what's next? Johnny Depp playing John Shaft?! Or maybe he can play Black Vulcan in a Super Friends movie. Or how about Cliff Huxtable?! Chet Kincaid, maybe?

    BTW, for purposes of full disclosure, one of my favorite movies, Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins, has a white actor playing an Asian character (was Joel Grey that famous?). Also, one of the classic Tom Baker era Doctor Who serials, The Talons Of Wang Chiang, similarly features a white actor playing an Asian. So you can perhaps take this whole argument as the words and thoughts of a hypocrite.
    It's all frankly irrelevant, because the studios will cast who they want to cast regardless. It's about money, thinks like skin colour, ethnicity, background etc are secondary.

    There are many examples of such casting in a Hollywood. I am no particular fan of Depp, but he has fans and those fans will tend to watch him in pretty much anything he does.

  8. #858
    I don't see Depp playing Tonto as a slight to Native Americans. No more than playing a pirate insulates buccaneers . He's an actor , that what he does, act. The amount of money risked in producing a major film is substantial. Investors and studios want whatever edge they can get to insure a return on investment. Its their right to choose a name actor , its the publics right not to pay to see it. This thinskinned morally outraged reaction to every damn thing is tedious. There is way more going on , of much greater import to be outraged at , Depp as Tonto , really?

  9. #859
    Ben Kingsley played a Jewish accountant in Schindlers List. Oh, the absurdity!

  10. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    Ben Kingsley played a Jewish accountant in Schindlers List. Oh, the absurdity!
    And...remember how utterly unconvincing he was as Ghandi.

  11. #861
    Early in their careers, before Depp was a household name, I used to get Depp and Sam Rockwell confused.

  12. #862
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    southern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,853
    Depp was outstanding in Donnie Brasco and Ed Wood.

    Although I am a bit offended, as he is neither an undercover cop infiltrating the mafia nor a cross-dressing director. Likewise with Sean Penn playing Harvey Milk. Penn is straight, not gay! Rise up and show your anger at these injustices.
    Prog, Metal and Classic rock reviews/interviews - www.velvetthunder.co.uk

  13. #863
    Member nosebone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Stamford, Ct.
    Posts
    1,022
    ^ Good one!

    Depp was a great Ed Wood
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  14. #864
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Likewise with Sean Penn playing Harvey Milk. Penn is straight, not gay! .
    Laugh if you want, but I hear there's an outcry about an upcoming Disney movie for such reasons. Apparently, this is the first out of the closet gay character ever in a Disney movie, but they've cast a straight actor, and there's an uproar in the LGBT community over the matter.

  15. #865
    Was there a huge outcry and uproar in the Native American community about Johnny Depp playing Tonto? If not, why are you in an uproar over it here?

    Btw, I remember Tony Randall of all people playing an Asian wizard of some kind in The Seven Faces of Dr. Lao. I heard the carnival/circus community was absolutely livid over that.
    Last edited by DocProgger; 08-28-2018 at 02:53 PM.

  16. #866
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Near Philly, PA
    Posts
    4,130
    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    Was there a huge outcry and uproar in the Native American community about Johnny Depp playing Tonto? If not, why are you in an uproar over it here?
    Yes, there was.

    The outcry is because it's difficult for minority actors to get work, so when a role appears that portrays their ethnicity/orientation/whatever, and it goes to another white actor, it's a bit of a slap in the face.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  17. #867
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Yes, there was.

    The outcry is because it's difficult for minority actors to get work, so when a role appears that portrays their ethnicity/orientation/whatever, and it goes to another white actor, it's a bit of a slap in the face.
    Thank you! I wouldn't have thought that needed to be spelled out, but I guess for some people, it has to be.

  18. #868
    Just to be crystal clear for the comprehension disabled, I specifically asked *was* there an outcry and uproar in the Native American community (not the Hollywood media community) about Depp as Tonto, not *why* there was an outcry (if there was one). I don't remember hearing about any controversy, nor did I see the movie or follow Depp's career all that closely. That doesn't mean I don't understand why people are outraged or there is an uproar over such things. So answering the "why" was nonresponsive and superfluous to answering my question, which was "was there".
    Last edited by DocProgger; 08-28-2018 at 04:31 PM.

  19. #869
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Near Philly, PA
    Posts
    4,130
    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    I don't remember hearing about any controversy, nor did I see the movie or follow Depp's career all that closely.
    Well, it was big enough to make Time magazine.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  20. #870
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Well, it was big enough to make Time magazine.
    Guess I missed that issue of Time. I didn't even know they made a Lone Ranger movie at that time, hence my question as to "was there" (not why).
    Last edited by DocProgger; 08-28-2018 at 04:22 PM.

  21. #871
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    southern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,853
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    The outcry is because it's difficult for minority actors to get work, so when a role appears that portrays their ethnicity/orientation/whatever, and it goes to another white actor, it's a bit of a slap in the face.
    A solid point, and I totally understand it. It raises questions going forward though. We have, I've just learned, reached the point where people are up in arms because a straight actor is playing a gay character. So do we from now on expect to cast only gay actors in gay roles? And does that work the other way too? Because I can assure you throughout history there have been many gay actors playing straight roles. Which is - as it should be - perfectly fine. They're actors. They are pretending to be someone they are not.

    Perhaps way into the future we will no longer see British actors playing German or Italian roles, regardless of how well they do the accent. Or Australians playing Americans. Or a Jewish actor portraying a Muslim. Or whatever. That might seem silly now, but honestly, where will the line be drawn? This is not meant to diminish what is a legitimate concern on the part of Native American actors who struggle to get roles handed out to established white actors. I'm just thinking out loud about the future. I could be way off base.
    Prog, Metal and Classic rock reviews/interviews - www.velvetthunder.co.uk

  22. #872
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    A solid point, and I totally understand it. It raises questions going forward though. .
    There is a certainly a level of political correctness nonsense going on at the moment but I'd suggest we draw the line somewhere the other side of



    and



    and

    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  23. #873
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    southern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,853
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    There is a certainly a level of political correctness nonsense going on at the moment but I'd suggest we draw the line somewhere the other side of...
    I agree. But I suspect that it will not end with race - and indeed, is already moving on to orientation. My suspicions are that the focus will then turn to religion, nationality, profession...

    Eventually actors won't really have to act much.
    Prog, Metal and Classic rock reviews/interviews - www.velvetthunder.co.uk

  24. #874
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    A solid point, and I totally understand it. It raises questions going forward though. We have, I've just learned, reached the point where people are up in arms because a straight actor is playing a gay character. So do we from now on expect to cast only gay actors in gay roles? And does that work the other way too? Because I can assure you throughout history there have been many gay actors playing straight roles. Which is - as it should be - perfectly fine. They're actors. They are pretending to be someone they are not.

    Perhaps way into the future we will no longer see British actors playing German or Italian roles, regardless of how well they do the accent. Or Australians playing Americans. Or a Jewish actor portraying a Muslim. Or whatever. That might seem silly now, but honestly, where will the line be drawn? This is not meant to diminish what is a legitimate concern on the part of Native American actors who struggle to get roles handed out to established white actors. I'm just thinking out loud about the future. I could be way off base.
    I think casting a Jewish actor as an Italian or German or whatever is completely different from casting a white actor in a non-white role. I mean, what are Native American actors supposed to play, if the Native American characters are being played by white people? Can an full blooded Apache or Cherokee actor pass as white? What about Asian actors?

    But I suppose you bring up some interesting points. I guess in this day and age, when it's been demonstrated that being out of the closet won't destroy your career, is there a reason to not cast a gay actor in a gay role? I mean, an artistic reason, not a "We have to put butts in the theater seats" reason.

    Back in the 50's, it was assumed that being out of teh closet would destroy your career, or at least relegate you to playing over the top stereotypical campy roles (think Liberace or Paul Lynde). So actors like Rock Hudson and Raymond Burr had to "play it straight". In fact, I believe I've read there's a scene in one of Rock's movies, where he's playing a straight man posing as a hairdresser (back in those days, a male hairdresser, not a barber, was assumed to be gay) to get close to, I think, Doris Day. Anyway, there's a scene where he has this sort of soliloquy, where he says something like "How long does this masquerade have to go on?", which is said to have been deliberately written not only in reference to the scenario in the picture itself, but also Hudson's real life dilemma.

    That was even going on in the 70's. I read an interview with Wesley Eure, the actor who played Will on Land Of The Lost (he was also on Days Of Our Lives for a time, but I think he was more well known for Land Of The Lost), and he was talkign about how NBC and his agent and all tehse other people were trying to set him up as a straight teen idol. 16 Magazine was running "Win a date with Wesley" contests and such, and he was like "Uh, guys, do we really need to do this?". Of course, that's the only way those sort of people know how to handle a teen or 20something, good looking actor, by turning them into pinup models.

    I remember back in the 90's, reading about some movie or TV show, where a gay actor was cast in some movie or whatever where he was to romance a woman. It was asked if a straight woman and a gay man could have the proper on-screen chemistry to pull it off. And the actor said "Rock Hudson and Doris Day already proved it's possible".

    But here's the thing, if we're to only cast gay actors in gay roles, or straight actors in straight roles, you're kinda prying into someone's private life. I mean, if an actor prefers to keep his/her personal life out of the public eye, and chooses to not have his/her orientation be part of his public life, then should they only play apparently asexual characters who dont' seem to be attracted to anybody? Just because they don't want the entire damn planet all up in their business?

    There's been quite a few gay actors in recent years, who were several years into a successful career, before they really came out. I think The Big Bang Theory had been on for a few years before Jim Parsons came out. Should he have been barred from playing Sheldon on that show, because at the outset he was in the closet. Then again, maybe at the outset, Sheldon was supposed to be asexual, and it was only later that someone figured it might be funny if he had a girlfriend.

    Also, don't you think casting a gay actor in a straight role, or vice versa, might be a test of someone's actual acting talent? Or casting a Jewish actor as a Nazi (for what it's worth, on Hogan's Heroes, all the main Nazis were played by Jewish actors)? I'm always hearing about actors wanting to "stretch themselves", seems like such instances would be the perfect opportunities.

  25. #875
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Near Philly, PA
    Posts
    4,130
    I don't really see the problem with giving actors with a more diverse background a chance at larger roles.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •