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Thread: Movies - Take Two. Action!

  1. #6176
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    To each their own, but I thought Joker was twice the movie The Dark Knight was.
    Yeah, despite the excellent performance of the title role, I thought Joker was weak. The idea that this weak personality/weak minded man on a downward spiral was going to be a formidable criminal/foil for Batman was ludicrous. The Ledger Joker on the other hand, was an evil genius, and totally believable as a sociopath/foil for Batman.

  2. #6177
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    I like both portrayals of the Joker. Very different takes on the same character, both performed very well.

    We're not going to talk about Jared Leto's performance...
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  3. #6178
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I prefer the Joker as a malevolent force with no back story - I don't need an origin story where he's an incel loser. One of the things about Ledger's Joker is he was a total mystery. "Nothing. No matches on prints, DNA, dental. Clothing is custom, no labels. Nothing in his pockets but knives and lint." And then him changing the story on his face every time he told it. That was perfect.
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  4. #6179
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Yeah, despite the excellent performance of the title role, I thought Joker was weak. The idea that this weak personality/weak minded man on a downward spiral was going to be a formidable criminal/foil for Batman was ludicrous. The Ledger Joker on the other hand, was an evil genius, and totally believable as a sociopath/foil for Batman.
    Apparently, you've never read what makes a psycho/sociopath. In fact, there are some parallels between both Joker's and Ted Bundy's parentages.

    But I found Joker a social critique of modern life and mental illness in the US whereas The Dark Knight was just another superhero/archvillain movie.
    “From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe

  5. #6180
    Joker misses the whole point. Joker should not have an origin. He is a force of primal chaos whose goal in life is to prod Batman into killing him -- the only way he can prove that he is right and Batman is wrong. I forgive Alan Moore's giving him an origin story in The Killing Joke only becauseu he gives Joker a line: "If I have to have a past, I want it to be multiple choice," leaing the possibility that the story is just one of his fantasies about his past.

    That's why I loved the Joker of The Dark Knight so much. He keeps giving people different stories of how he got that way, and they are probably all made up on the spot just for that audience.
    Cobra handling and cocaine use are a bad mix.

  6. #6181
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    Apparently, you've never read what makes a psycho/sociopath. In fact, there are some parallels between both Joker's and Ted Bundy's parentages.
    Correct. I'm not a big reader in general, but when I do, I'm not going to invest the time in reading about something like psychopathy. Having said that, there's a big difference between a criminal mastermind and a (comparatively) small time sociopath. I do know that the character as portrayed in Joker could not have become the character in the Batman series. Hell, probably not even the TV series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    But I found Joker a social critique of modern life and mental illness in the US whereas The Dark Knight was just another superhero/archvillain movie.
    If Joker were merely a portrayal of a downward spiral, it would have been excellent. As a portrayal of that character, it was an epic fail. Context, context. There's a history there.

  7. #6182
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    Regarding “Joker” vs “The Dark Knight”, I enjoyed both films for different reasons. I think both Phoenix and Ledger did amazing jobs in their roles.

    One thing regarding “Joker”. The affliction that was depicted in the film, where the Joker character laughs anytime he is faced with an emotional situation is real. We have a friend who suffered a brain aneurysm when he was in his 20’s. It was a devastating situation and caused the same symptoms as the Joker in the film. No matter what emotional situation this person is faced with, he laughs. Even in sad situations his only emotional output is laughter. The affliction is very real, and Phoenix pulled it off accurately.

  8. #6183
    Member hippypants's Avatar
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    I thought of the Joker movie as an Elseworld's tale. In comics they do those as imaginary tales about characters without messing with cannon: What if Bruce Wayne's parents were never shot, or something like that. Some of those are interesting, others not so much. I enjoyed the Joker for what it was, but the Jack Nicholson/Tim Burton version was closer to the comic book cannon.

    I saw The Irishman last night, took several breaks due to the length, and it was pretty interesting. I thought Scorsese created his own fictional history for Hoffa much the way Tarantino did with Once Upon A Time in Hollywood and Inglorious Bastards.

  9. #6184
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    I know plenty regarding psychopathy (not just reading) - worked in the prison system (and criminal justice) in both Canada and the United States for 15 years. Offenders are notorious for having high levels of psychopathy. I enjoyed The Joker but not nearly as much as Batman with Ledger. I found his role more menacing and I liked the action in the movie. I've watched it a few times. The Joker is a very good movie but it doesn't resonate with me fully.
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  10. #6185
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippypants View Post
    I thought of the Joker movie as an Elseworld's tale. In comics they do those as imaginary tales about characters without messing with cannon: What if Bruce Wayne's parents were never shot, or something like that. Some of those are interesting, others not so much. I enjoyed the Joker for what it was, but the Jack Nicholson/Tim Burton version was closer to the comic book cannon.

    I saw The Irishman last night, took several breaks due to the length, and it was pretty interesting. I thought Scorsese created his own fictional history for Hoffa much the way Tarantino did with Once Upon A Time in Hollywood and Inglorious Bastards.
    The Irishman is based on the book "I Hear You Paint Houses" by Frank "The Irishman" Sheeran. In the book Sheeran claims to have been involved in the wacking of Hoffa which is what is depicted in the film. I thought the book was interesting, but most people associated with the mob say that although some of the book is true, Sheeran was known to make things up and make his role in the organization to be bigger than it actually was. From what I have read most people doubt Sheeran's Hoffa story.

    As for the movie, I saw it in a theater when it came out. I enjoyed it, but think Scorsese has done better.

  11. #6186
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    Joker is an Elseworlds movie. DC Comics' Elseworlds ran parallel to Marvel's Ultimates in that different (sometimes wildly different) characterizations of beloved characters could be depicted without the blowback of wedging them into the existing continuities. The filmic Avengers are closer to their Ultimates counterparts, in that respect.

    I loved Joker. Excellent film. But, no, that's not the Joker of The Dark Knight. Ledger's Joker will probably never be dethroned. He wasn't just a villain, he was malevolence in its purest form, the unstoppable force, i.e. evil, as the character himself intones in the film.

    "—and I...won't kill you...because you're just too much fun!"


  12. #6187
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    I do know that the character as portrayed in Joker could not have become the character in the Batman series. Hell, probably not even the TV series.
    If Joker were merely a portrayal of a downward spiral, it would have been excellent. As a portrayal of that character, it was an epic fail. Context, context. There's a history there.
    From what I recall of the press about the movie, it was quite a deviation from the DC universe. Todd Phillips the director said in a NYTimes article about the movie, "it's just another interpretation, like people do interpretations of Macbeth." Which was fine with me; in fact, it's why I wanted to see it. In hindsight, I didn't really see it as a DC universe movie. Consequently, I thought it was excellent, carried by Joaquin Phoenix's superb performance that deservedly won him the Oscar. Indeed, of the movies nominated for Best Picture, I thought Joker was better than any of the others, including the winner Parasite.
    “From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe

  13. #6188
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    From what I recall of the press about the movie, it was quite a deviation from the DC universe. Todd Phillips the director said in a NYTimes article about the movie, "it's just another interpretation, like people do interpretations of Macbeth." Which was fine with me; in fact, it's why I wanted to see it. In hindsight, I didn't really see it as a DC universe movie. Consequently, I thought it was excellent, carried by Joaquin Phoenix's superb performance that deservedly won him the Oscar. Indeed, of the movies nominated for Best Picture, I thought Joker was better than any of the others, including the winner Parasite.
    And hopefully it remains as a one-off, standalone. There's no need to expand upon that "universe." Just let it be. For once.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  14. #6189
    Member hippypants's Avatar
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    The Empty Man--pretty well done detective, horror film. I enjoyed most of it except for the ending, which I felt was weak and didn't totally get. Stream it on HBO Max.

  15. #6190
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Apologies if this was mentioned, but just took my sons to see Suicide Squad (kind of fun, but not really my thing), and the movie features a brief bit of Kansas - Point of Know Return!

  16. #6191
    All Things Must Pass spellbound's Avatar
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    Watched Hitchcock's The Birds last night. Thanks to our awesome public library.

  17. #6192
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spellbound View Post
    Watched Hitchcock's The Birds last night. Thanks to our awesome public library.
    I would call that Hitch's last great one. After that, the only one I can recommend is Frenzy, which isn't up to his standards but is still good.
    “From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.” – Philip Marlowe

  18. #6193
    All Things Must Pass spellbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    And I completely disagree with you there.

    Watch the 2016 standalone (meaning it's not part of any continuity Toho previously set up, for there are multiple) film Shin Godzilla (the one they made after Gareth Edwards' 2014 film, which I also like) and get back to me. SG is crazy good.

    Cloverfield tried to invoke a less-is-more angle, but it was only partly successful. And you have to believe a big thing is stomping through a metro and doing far less damage to the infrastructure than it should-would (while parties are happening).
    Thanks for mentioning Shin Godzilla. I had never seen or heard of it. I lucked across a dvd of it and now I own it. I might have missed or ignored it had you not recommended it. Will watch soon. Last night we watched A Quiet Place Part II. Seemed short, but was every bit as good as the first A Quiet Place.

  19. #6194
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    Saw the film "9 Days" in the theater yesterday. I liked it, my wife didn't. It is one of those films with an ending that is left open to interpretation.


  20. #6195
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    That looks pretty interesting.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  21. #6196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    That looks pretty interesting.
    Apparently it has won a bunch of indie film awards. It was certainly different and kept my interest through the whole thing. As mentioned before, my wife did not dig it at all.

  22. #6197
    Member hippypants's Avatar
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    Doc on the Fender Rhodes free on YT


  23. #6198
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Enemy At the Gates Jude Law and Ed Harris - Watched this again - first time with my wife. What a stunning powerful movie, it pulls you in right away and never lets go. Totally holds up.

    Anyone else see this movie from 20 years ago? What did you think?
    Last edited by mozo-pg; 08-17-2021 at 04:01 PM.
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound (2112)

  24. #6199
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippypants View Post
    The Empty Man--pretty well done detective, horror film. I enjoyed most of it except for the ending, which I felt was weak and didn't totally get. Stream it on HBO Max.
    I enjoyed it, nothing too revolutionary but an interesting proposition.
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  25. #6200
    Member hippypants's Avatar
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    Enemy At the Gates. Yes, I saw it at the cinema, but haven't seen it recently. I remember it been good.

    Out of the Furnace--Christian Bale, Casey Affleck done pretty well about two brothers growing up in the Rust Belt.

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