Wow, really? Just......wow. Somebody bring the guy some cough drops!Originally Posted by gojikranz
Wow, really? Just......wow. Somebody bring the guy some cough drops!
Well now you've met two. I avoided the Godfather trilogy for years, because I'm (intentionally) not entertained by violence and never want to get inured to violence. Then The Sopranos came out, and I had to watch it because of the irony and the high production values. The amoral violence still shocked me (same with Pulp Fiction and No Country For Old Men) but I enjoyed the non-violent parts. So I finally gave in and watched the Godfather movies.
Hated them.
They seemed small-minded and bitter. Like a TV soap opera with a toxic attitude. Cannot understand their acclaim, for the life of me.
The thing with the Godfather is you are given a couple of characters to relate to: Michael and Kay. At the wedding, you see most of it through Michael telling Kay about his family. At this point he's practically an outsider, not having anything to do with the family "business". Kay is even more outside, not Italian and probably not even Catholic. And then the descent begins, as Michael gets in deeper and deeper until at the end when he has the door shut in Kay's face as he holds a "business" meeting. And on some levels, old Vito is somewhat sympathetic. These are great characters, despicable and yet not without worth. Well, Fredo...
Godfather II digs even deeper with an even more rewarding film, looking at the beginning of the family and contrasting it with Michael's continued descent. I could watch either of these films again and again.
Idiots that celebrate these characters as heroes are just that, idiots. Even more so for those who celebrate Scarface or Goodfellas. These characters are not presented for your hero worship. These are cautionary tales.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
IMO The Godfather is as much a tale of corruption of a mans soul as a mafia story. We meet Michael as a returning war hero , related to but not part of the family. Blood is thicker than water and he is drawn step by step till the full commitment at the end of the film. The closing door at the end is one powerful image. The film is a true classic , every bit deserving of its reputation. Its a film that will be still talked about , long after the comic book movie period is over and forgotten. Which by the way , I will not miss at all.
^^^^
True all dat.
And I don't know of anyone who worships those characters as heroes for what they do in the "business". Not even sure how that even got injected into the convo as an issue.
add--re the first 2 Godfather movies, I know most like each of those as standalone films and it would be heresy to mess with them in any way. I think they are both brilliant as separate films also, but some years back they put both of them in chronological order and I think called it The Godfather Saga; it was on one of the satellite movie channels for awhile over and over. For those that don't like the flashbacks in II or just like more chronological storytelling, that version makes a lot of sense; you see DeNiro as young Vito C. as he comes over to America and starts working, and you see how he came to be in what became the Mafia. I think there is added footage in those early DeNiro parts which fleshes out what happened in Sicily etc. I think they did a good job in weaving those stories together and it better prepares you for what becomes the meat of that version, which is Brando's Don part, and then you get Micheal's rise into the Godfather without the old Vito C parts interrupting.
Last edited by DocProgger; 07-26-2018 at 06:45 PM.
Watched Cool Hand Luke for the ???th time...man that never get's old.
"The Bill of Rights says nothing about the freedom of hearing. This, of course, takes a lot of the fun out of the freedom of speech." - Pat Paulsen
My Art- http://www.facebook.com/williamallenrenfro -My Life
- Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
- Fast Times at Ridgemont High
- What's Eating Gilbert Grape
- The Outsiders
- The Warriors
- Halloween
- Pale Rider
- Mad Max (any of the 4 films)
- Star Wars 3.5-8
If you're a fan of horror, TCM was a game changer.
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
That's probably true but whether that was a good thing or not depends on you're perspective.
For horror fans and independent film makers it was a good thing, but for everyone else I dunno.
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
Kinda like people who dismiss something like A Clockwork Orange because of it's violence, without considering some of the questions raised later in the movie, vis-a-vis Alex's "treatment" and whether his life is better after he's released from prison (given that he can't even engage in any form of self defense), etc.
I suppose this probably going to seem like a stupid question, but what was the message in The Purge?
I remember suggesting to someone that there was a lot of sadism in The Hunger Games (my dad had it on the TV one day, for whatever reason), and it was explained to me that the film was about the kind of desperation and dehumanization mankind has sunk to by the time of when the movie is set (or I guess franchise, since there's several of them, I guess).
This is true. I see a lot of people wearing Al Pacino shirts, though I think that's more the Scarface character, though I suppose the point is still relevant. For what it's worth, in the legendary Tom Snyder Kiss interview, Peter Criss mentions being a big mob movie fan, I guess talking about the James Cagney and Edward G. Robinson era films, and says something to the effect that he "wishes" he could be a gangster in the 1940's (to which Gene quickly adds "in the movies", like he's afraid the band's entire career is gonna come crashing down over Peter talking about wishing he could be crime syndicate guy).but the godfather has always been one where I feel like a lot of people don't get it. seems a lot of people kind of idolize them or do think of them as the "heroes" and where t-shirts with vito on it etc.
Yeah, but it's just depravity masked as horror. Utter garbage, imo.
At work, one Sunday, we got I think about three different girls' softball teams all in at the same time. I guess there must have been a tournament or something. Anyway, one of the teams was called The Fury or something like that. Somehow, that maybe me think of the Baseball Furies in The Warriors. So I go back and tell this one guy in kitchen prep about it, and he's like "The wha?! I've never seen The Warriors", and I'm like, "DUDE! That is a great movie! You'd like it". So I guess during the week he rented it or whatever, and come the next Sunday, he was quoting, incessantly, "Warriors! Come out to play!". I guess he must have liked it.
Lots of interesting trivia about that movie. For instance, there was a real world reason why one of the Warriors gets thrown on the subway tracks by the cop: because the actor got himself fired off the movie for ad libbing too much! So the director literally threw him in front of the train.
Two words: Phoebe CatesFast Times at Ridgemont High
re: Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the real weird thing about that movie is, it's not nearly as violent or graphic as many people think it is. A lot of people who saw it, the first time, they were sort of looking away from the screen or whatever, when there expecting something gruesome to happen. Then they see it on TV or whatever later, and they think "Wait, they cut stuff out", and in fact, it's the exact same cut. They just think there was stuff there that they "didn't see" because they were "watching through their fingers" or whatever.
People reportedly regularly ask Tobe Hooper (or used to anyway) how he got the effect of the girl bleeding into the pan when Leatherface hangs her on the hook, and Hooper always says the same thing: "We didn't". People just imagine there was stuff happening in that movie that really weren't.
I happen to feel, though, that slasher films ruined the horror genre. After awhile, it stopped being about suspense, or any kind of atmospheric story telling or whatever, and it just became a. figuring out a more gruesome way of killing someone, and b. then depicting that on screen in a way that won't get them in trouble with the Hayes Office (yeah, I know, the Hayes Office doesn't exist anymore, but "MPAA" just doesn't have the same ring).
I went through a phase watching just about whatever came on HBO or Cinemax, as a teenager, when it came to those things, but I got off by the time I was about 16 or so. I still like the first couple Halloweens, and I think the first five or so Friday The 13th pictures were relatively interesting, in terms of attempting to advance the story. The only Friday The 13th I saw after the fifth one was number seven (don't know why I never saw number 6), but I've always been curious to at least see the rest of the original franchise. I have no interest in seeing the Rob Zombie versions of those films.
Nightmare On Elm Street...I saw the first four (and I have to admit the main reason I saw number 4 was because Brooke Theiss was in it). Dont' really have much interest in seeing any of them again, except for the second one. I only saw that one once, and don't really remember much about it, though things I've read subsequently make me want to see it again. Apparently, the actor who played the main victim in that one wrote a book that went along with the movie, that played as his character's diary or something like that.
Actually, I take that back, I did see The Real Nightmare, or whatever it was called, where Freddie somehow crosses over into "real life" and is actually stalking Heather Langekamp (the actress who played Nancy in the first and third pictures). I seem to recall that was not too badly done.
But since we're talking about horror films now, one of my favorite pictures is the early 80's parody, Student Bodies. Way funnier than any of that Scary Movie nonsense. There's a lot of good trivia connected to that one too. The film was made in Texas, during a writer's strike, which is why you never saw any of the actors ever again in anything. Lots of great lines, and great gags. "Body count: 13. No longer a suspect".
I love Clockwork Orange and in this case the voilence does not bother me as it is important to the entire arc of the film and as you point out his eventual (non) rehabilitation of the protagonist.
In contrast, TCM seems sensational and indulgent. I get that it is horror and needs the violence as a vehicle to create fear and repulsion but it does not IMO go beyond that by making any kind of statement about the human condition, society etc. etc.
It is in my recollection disturbingly violent for it's own sake, for example when the woman is put on the meat hook - a detail I recall from the university late night showing forty years ago. Perhaps I am mistaken and time and memory have decieved me...
I hold up the separate movies as complete independent works and love them that way, but I also enjoyed this when it was released, and wish it were available for purchase or streaming. The extra footage from G2 really fills out a lot of the back story not only of Vito, but also other characters such as Tom Hagen and Hyman Roth. It's an entertaining way to see the story unfold.
BTW, I know I'm in the minority here, but I also appreciate G3 in spite of its deep flaws. I don't watch it nearly as often, but still enjoy it from time to time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
David
Happy with what I have to be happy with.
I saw a documentary, Inside the Mind of Robin Williams. It covers his history since he was a young boy to help explain his approach to comedy. I found it interesting that he was offered 15 an episode for Mork and Minday and he was thrilled he was going to make $1,500 an episode until they told him it was $15,000! I think his depth of talent was a deep pool with Good Will Hunting, The Dead Poets Society, Awakenings and The Fisher King all demonstrating stellar serious acting roles. This is a huge challenge, being rip roaring funny in his peak and being able to deliver a substantive role. The movie ends with his tragic death with comments from his family and close friends (e.g., Billy Crystal). All and all, a very interesting documentary.
Part of me really wants to see that, as I loved Robin Williams, but I feel like it would be extremely depressing.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
I think it was a celebration of Robin's life with recollections from family and friends. It was more enlightening than depressing.
I agree. Filled in some gaps in my memory, refreshed it in other places. Definitely worth the watch. Some melancholy to be expected near the end, but overall excellent and hilarious.
And I never knew he had two half-brothers.
Good to hear. I'll definitely check it out, then. Thanks, mozo.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
Don't watch the last bit then. Prior to the "end" it is the positive experience mentioned by the others.
Was Williams bipolar? I did watch the docu , but missed some pieces.
On edit; bipolar is the same as manic - depressive? The energy Williams had on stage was other worldly. Was wondering..........
probably shouldn't get into it given the last thread but the main thing is that the underpinnings of the purge are shown not to be that violence is good for you but the violence is instigated by a totalitarian government that wants to rid the nation of poor people. so its trying to be somewhat deep though it can be pretty tacky at times especially the first one (a odd case where the movies actually get better with each successive entry). so understandable that not everyones cup of tea.
That's a PERFECT description of many so-called horror movies, IMO.
Williams was the CLASSIC case of bipolar.
When he was uppity-up-up he was truly amazing! But the public didn't get to see his flip side, when he was downedy-down-down. Those episodes must have been devastating, to be just as depressive as he was manic when he was up.
Yeah, if anyone was a textbook case of bipolar manic-depressive, it was him. I remember thinking that way back during the Mork and Mindy days when I saw him on the late night talk shows etc. He was a mile a minute and I remember thinking, there is no way this guy can keep this kind of pace up.
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