Favorite Avant-Garde Albums?

[walt]

In jazz - Ornette Coleman's album Crisis was also a head-opener.

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Co-signed.



This tune is Trouble In The East,not Space Jungle.

[walt]

Alvin Curran-Songs And Views From The Magnetic Garden-Part II
This album has meant a lot to me ever since i bought the vinyl at Tower Records in NYC many moons ago.At the time i was only vaguely aware of Curran as a member of the electro-acoustic improvising ensemble Musica Elettronica Viva(MEV).I bought it just because it looked interesting and i took a chance.I'm so glad i did.

[Scrotum Scissor]

How long ago was your experience, Richard?

I think newer new music folks are more aware of ‘interesting’ rock musics and the awareness is slowly but always steadily increasing.

I think.

Oh, this is most certainly true. My experience stems from 20-25 years back, when I myself was in a band with a keyboardist who was a student at the Grieg Academy, a serious New Musics buff -AND- a progressive rock fan - but who wasn't aware of anything more radical in 'compositional rock' than the usual suspects and was flabbergasted on discovering UZero, Beefheart, HC et al.

And somehow I do believe that he was part of a subcultural New generation in music academia, with younger folks awakening at 'art music' interests through advanced electronica, noise, techno and the lot (go, Skullhead!) but also revisiting styles of yore that had been shunned since the 70s and submitting these to new perspectives; like arty-farty psychedelia, freak-folk and even progressive rock of allsorts. There was indeed a kind of paradigm shift here in Norway when Helge Sten (aka. Deathprod of Motorpsycho, Supersilent and more; now living with his wife Susanna Wallumrød some 20 feet from my kitchen window) disputed for his degree in sonics & dynamics at the conservatory in Oslo, followed by his remixes of assorted Arne Nordheim recordings - the latter a release which boosted stature for the ensuing Rune Grammofon label.

Of course, today we have numerous '(progressive) rock' musicians with major degrees from music academies around the world, some of them also active in more purely 'art music' circuits. For instance, a very close friend and former dorm roomate of mine, Filip Sande, has an opus roster of nearly 200 and regularly sees his shit performed in Poland, Germany, Romania and (to a lesser extent) Norway, yet his heart lies with baroque 60s psych and folk poetry, and he spends his time starving with his wife and kid in a tiny apartment on Nesodden. One of HIS best buds, Marcus Paus, is a highly esteemed and in-demand contemporary composer but still spends his spare time making extreme tech-metal and bizarre, Carpenter-like sound installations for imaginary movies.

So things have definitely changed - even up here in the cold north. Which isn't so cold anymore, it would seem, as summer median temperatures tend to rise above +30* C.

On the other hand, internationally there were already since long the David Bedfords, Lindsay Coopers, Stomu Yamashtas and James Grigsbys.

[Scrotum Scissor]

GREAT album.

But avant-garde?

Within rock music, Rock Bottom represented an unheard-of personal expression of sound and artistic sentiment.

-Resolutely- 'avant-garde rock' in the same breath as Nico's Marble Index or Tim Buckley's Starsailor or, in recent years, Scott Walker's experimental output.

[bondegezou]

Well, there's been a broad range of what "avant garde" might mean suggested in this thread, generally or in a prog rock or rock context. I always answer threads like this with the same two albums:

Biota's Object Holder

Towering Inferno's Kaddish

If we want to move to "new music" and its overlap with prog, then I will laud Skin & Wire by pianomusic ft. Bill Bruford playing the music of Colin Riley. If we're talking "new music" not necessarily overlapping with prog, I've been really digging lately this:



Henry

[Dana5140]

I think Avante-Garde is time dependent. The Sun Ra of the late 60s was avante-garde but perhaps would not be seen so now. For me this would include a lot of new and electronic (formal, academic) music, stuff like Diamanda Galas, Borbetomagus, the free energy jazz of hte late 60s, etc.

[Steve F.]

But what is it? Is it avant-garde?, Is it classical-pop crossover? Is it even classifiable?

"Labels are for cans, man! - Don van Vliet

[chalkpie]

"Labels are for cans, man! - Don van Vliet

Exactly. I really dislike how things are supposed to fit in a labeled box - Humans seemed to be obsessed with this notion.

Having said that, there are two composers that I have been into recently (like about 5-6 years now) that may be groovy within these musical confines - one is Jón Leifs (Iceland) and the other is Kalevi Aho (Finalnd). Both compose music that can exist at polar extremes stylistically - from fiery, violent volcanic destruction to peaceful, meditative introspection, and the stuff that fits between. I really like both very much and now have a decent CD collection of both.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

Minimalism at its best:

[walt]

Gillian Whitehead,from New Zealand.This composition is scored for piano, string quartet and oboe.

[Buddhabreath]

Friedrich Gulda was an accomplished classical musician and branched into jazz as well as this excellent more avant work. Here he works with a percussionist and displays his prowess at piano and improvisation including string plucking etc.

[Baribrotzer]

Minimalism at its best:

Good composer, good music. But Adams was one of the second wave of Minimalists, after La Monte Young, Reich, and Glass. Those later guys built upon Minimalism as a musical approach, but not as an expression of its initial manifesto. They felt free to use it as a starting point - sometimes for work that wound up not being Minimalist at all - rather than as a complete, all-encompassing aesthetic and artistic philosophy. And you'll notice that, far from being small-scale, scrappy Downtown music performed in lofts by a specialized, dedicated ensemble (as the earlier work of La Monte Young, Reich, and Glass was), this is a full-scale opera, with a full cast, full chorus, full orchestra, and performed in an opera house by an opera company as part of a regular season right alongside Verdi and Gounod.

In other words, with this work (among many), Minimalism had arrived as an accepted part of the mainstream. It was no longer avant-garde.

[markwoll]

And I am sitting here listening to Rum Jungle by The Necks ( from the album Mindset ) thinking 'this is wonderful music, but not really conducive to work'
But I persist. And enjoy.
Avant? perhaps.

[Socrates]

Good composer, good music. But Adams was one of the second wave of Minimalists, after La Monte Young, Reich, and Glass. Those later guys built upon Minimalism as a musical approach, but not as an expression of its initial manifesto. They felt free to use it as a starting point - sometimes for work that wound up not being Minimalist at all - rather than as a complete, all-encompassing aesthetic and artistic philosophy. And you'll notice that, far from being small-scale, scrappy Downtown music performed in lofts by a specialized, dedicated ensemble (as the earlier work of La Monte Young, Reich, and Glass was), this is a full-scale opera, with a full cast, full chorus, full orchestra, and performed in an opera house by an opera company as part of a regular season right alongside Verdi and Gounod.

In other words, with this work (among many), Minimalism had arrived as an accepted part of the mainstream. It was no longer avant-garde.

One of my favourite Avant album must be Glass' Einstein on the Beach. When that came out in the 70s this was a difficult listen with its repetitions and slow development. It may not seem so now, when we are used to the minimalist language, but at that time I remember my brain protesting, screaming for something to happen, until it adapted to listening in a completely different way.

[Mascodagama]

Having said that, there are two composers that I have been into recently (like about 5-6 years now) that may be groovy within these musical confines - one is Jón Leifs (Iceland) and the other is Kalevi Aho (Finalnd). Both compose music that can exist at polar extremes stylistically - from fiery, violent volcanic destruction to peaceful, meditative introspection, and the stuff that fits between. I really like both very much and now have a decent CD collection of both.

Can you recommend some points of entry to these composers' recorded work?

[Mascodagama]

Some of my favourites from recent years that may not be known to everyone:

Pivixki - Gravissima. Avant-classical pianist and composer Anthony Pateras meets grindcore drummer Max Kohane.

Hyrrokkin - Of Pristine Origin. Non-Euclidean free rock with free jazz horns added on some tracks.

Veli Kujala - Hyperorgansim. Accordion, pipe organ and live electronics, improv and composition.

Starlite Motel - Awosting Falls. Rather intense free rock / improv with tour de force performance from Jamie Saft on organ.

Jute Gyte - Ship of Theseus. Microtonal avant black metal with abstruse lyrics.

[GuitarGeek]

Without looking at anyone else's list

Karlheinz Stockhausen: Hymnen
Karlheinz Stockhausen: Mikrophonie I and II
Karlheinz Stockhausen: Sternklang
Karlheinz Stockhausen: Sirius
Karlheinz Stockhausen: Mantra
John Cage: Sonatas And Interludes for Prepared Piano (the one on Mode Records, that was done on a Steinway Model O baby grand, I forget who the soloist is)
Morton Subotnick: Silver Apples Of The Moon
Morton Subotnick: The Wild Bull
Morton Subotnick: Touch
Morton Subotnick: Sidewinder
Morton Subotnick: After Spring
Morton Subotnick: 4 Butterflies
Vangelis: Beaubourg
Sun Ra: My Brother The Wind (especially the bonus track laden CD reissue)
Sun Ra: My Brother The Wind Vol. 2
Sun Ra: The Magic City
Sun Ra: Cosmic Tones For Mental Therapy
Sun Ra: Atlantis
Henry Cowell: I forget the title, but there's an album of his solo piano music, performed the composer himself, ending with a track of him of commenting on each piece. I believe it was released by the Smithsonian Institute
Hans Reichel: The Dawn Of The Dachsman
Hans Reichel: Lower Lurum
Hans Reichel: Life Of The Rare Bird Ymir
Hans Reichel: Bonobo Beach
Henry Kaiser: It's A Wonderful Life
Henry Kaiser: The Five Heavenly Truths
Henry Kaiser/Charles K. Noyes/Sang-Won Park: Invite The Spirit
Derek Bailey/Jamie Muir: Dart Drug
Derek Bailey/John Stevens/Trevor Watts: Dynamics Of The Impromptu
John Zorn: Pool
John Zorn: Spillane (the original version that was issued on, I think Nonesuch, with the track on side two with Albert Collins guesting)
Edgard Varese: the two CD's by the National Orchestra Of France, conducted by Kent Nagano
Motor Totemist Guild: City Of Illusions
U Totem: Strange Attractors
Krysztopf Penderecki: the recordings that EMI reissued on two of their mid 90's Matrix CD's
Witold Lutoslawski: Naxos put out a series of something like 6 or 7 CD's of Lutoslawski's orchestral music, those are the ones I'm think of here
Doctor Nerve: Did Sprinting Die?
Doctor Nerve: Beta 14 OK
Doctor Nerve: Skin
Faust: Faust
Faust: So Far
Faust: The Faust Tapes
Faust: Faust IV
Cluster: Cluster '71

I'm sure there's other stuff I should mention, but I'm drawing a blank here. But not too shabby who's been known to go around looking like an escapee from an under-financed Kiss tribute band and who also knows the words to exactly one (count it! One!) Backstreet Boys song, eh?

[GuitarGeek]

A gentle kind of avant-garde, the first of its kind, so far ahead of its time that it took the world 20 years to catch up. And it's still never been equaled.

Sonic Seasonings by Wendy Carlos

Yeah, I should have included Wendy Carlos' A Clockwork Orange, the album that was reissued on ESD, not the Warner Brothers movie soundtrack.

And of course, if we're gonna bring up Sonic Seasonings, there's any number of ambient(ish) albums from Tangerine Dream, Brian Eno, Steve Roach, Robert Rich, etc that one could include also.

[GuitarGeek]

In classical/orchestral whatever you call it, the showstopper was Messiaen's tremendous Turangalila Symphony.

A piece so brilliant, one of the characters on Futurama was named after it (seriously!). I'm not positive, but I think I might have seen it performed by the Cleveland Orchestra, on a program that also included Ligeti's piano concerto, and ended with Stravinsky's La Sacre Du Printemps, all of it conducted by Pierre Boulez.

Or possibly, I'm conflating three different concerts, and I'm not positive if that was the Messiaen piece I saw performed or not (I saw something that involved an Ondes Martenot and full orchestra).

And I certainly saw Maestro Boulez conduct the Stravinsky, it's the only time in living memory I've ever suppressed the urge to headbang (didn't want to upset the stuffy "classical music" people who probably don't dig "metalhead" behaviour from an audient).

I would also mention Messiaen's organ music, too, possibly the most intense "religious" music I've heard in my life. I probably would have continued going to church as a teenager, if the church organist had broken into

[GuitarGeek]

I forgot the music of György Ligeti. Back in the 90's, Sony Classical put out a 8 disc series of releases (actually, it was 9 discs, volume 8 was a two disc set comprising his opera, La Grand Macabre) in their György Ligeti Edition. The series was supposed to be 12 discs, but I think some Kenny G fan at the home office pulled the plug, after the opera release. The piano etudes disc was nominated for a Grammy, I believe.

As such, there was a second series of releases, five of them, that was put out, I think by Teldec, under the "Ligeti Project" umbrella, that apparently were intended to complement (or is that compliment?) the Sony Classicals, as they all include the same handwritten dedication to Vincent Meyer. Anyway, both sets of recordings were supervised by the composer, and worth hearing.

I also have the four CD set of Conlon Nancarrow's player piano music, originally issued in the 70's by 1720 Arch Records, and reissued by Other Minds Music. It's supposedly the set of recordings that were done on Nancarrow's own player pianos (which were specially modified by him), and as such, are the closest to sounding like what hte music actually sounded like in his Mexico City studio.

There's another set, on Wergo, which includes the pieces he composed in the 80's, but that one wasn't done with Nancarrow's instruments.

[D.Eric]

A new Doctor Nerve EP is in the works.

Doctor Nerve: Did Sprinting Die?
Doctor Nerve: Beta 14 OK
Doctor Nerve: Skin

[unclemeat]

I don’t believe PETER (his dad) was at RIO.

Yes he did play at RIO with Full Blast.

[walt]

A new Doctor Nerve EP is in the works.

It's here and it's a doozy.Something a bit different from past albums.

https://doctornerve.bandcamp.com/album/the-monkey-farm

[Buddhabreath]

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Karlheinz Stockhausen
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Hans Reichel: The Dawn Of The Dachsman
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Great list. I remember fondly seeing Hans Reichel play the Dachsman at the old D.C. Space. What amazing sounds he got out of bowing pieces of wood! Like some mythical wounded animal I thoutht at the time (but more musical of course). I'll have to re-visit, it's been many moons.

Question: way back in my university days there was a stellar prof. of humanities that did a section on music appreciation and played a Stockhausen piece that was titled somthing like "The Children of the Holocaust in the Fire". It was an electronic piece that has haunted me since but I've never been able to track it down. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks everyone for the many great suggestions.

[unclemeat]

a Stockhausen piece that was titled something like "The Children of the Holocaust in the Fire". It was an electronic piece that has haunted me since but I've never been able to track it down. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

That's Gesang der Jünglinge