Who wrote Video Killed the Radio Star?

[Zaragon]

So many fingers on that pie... Trevor Horn, Geoff Downes, Bruce Woolley, Hans Zimmer, Tina Charles, Virginia Hey... by extension, Thomas Dolby, since he plays on the Camera Club version. A dear old friend of mine, the late Damian Ramsey — the man behind synthpunk.org — reckoned that the Buggles would have been a more stylistically congruent duo had it boiled down to Horn and Woolley.

As for Downes, his participation in Asia makes me love the supergroup's first album even more, as you can hear his enthusiasm just brimming from those lavish instrumental bridges on "Heat of the Moment," "Only Time Will Tell," "Wildest Dreams," and "Here Comes the Feeling." Listeners can sense that the young man behind the keyboards is thinking to himself: here I am at last, playing the music I've always wanted to make with three of my heroes.

[Man In The Mountain]

Geoff also never gets credit for re-writing all of the old YES material into something more palatable for today's audience.

Poor old Wakey seems to have forgotten that I re-wrote the entire intro, bridge and instrumental sections to all those old YES classics, making them so much more than what he brought to the table. I should get a cut of the credits on new live releases, Wakey's a very lucky bunny he still make s quid doing that AWR or whatever it is! In fact, truth be told, not that I need to go down this road again and again and again, but I wrote a lot more for ABWH than what I was given credit for, the clappy bit in Brother of Mine. A very trite album before I stepped in adding my musical additions. Which I didn't get credit for, thank you not so much. But I digress, Wakey is a lucky f**ker who does nothing but romp around the audience and bore everyone to death. He bought a house in Surrey etc etc ... big yawn. #happydaysforhimnotsoforme PS I’m not bitter about it any of this. Just need the truth out there.

[Geoff O'Donoghue]

With advance apologies for a slight thread detour (although we are in Yes-related territory and it's songwriting credit-related) I have the following question:

Can anyone provide any details as to why 'Going For The One' is credited solely to Jon Anderson. To me this song sounds like the result of a classic HSW jam (like 'Have We Really Got To Go Through This') and the rehearsal version on the expanded release only serves to reinforce this impression. I just can't imagine the form in which JA presented this song to the band - it sounds so much like what you get with HSW playing off each other and yet not one of these three is credited.

[GuitarGeek]

So many fingers on that pie...Virginia Hey...

(Fred Schneider mode). Wait...WHAT?! (Fred Schneider mode off)

(checking Wiki) Holy crap! Virginia Hey was in that video?! I never knew that. Apparently, she's the woman in the tube. I only remember first hearing her name on Farscape. SHe was also on a couple other TV shows that i remember watching, but I didn't realize until later it was the same actress I knew as Pa'u Zotoh Zaahn (actually, it's only now that I realized she was on a short lived late 80's show i remember watching called Dolphin Cove, thank you Wikipedia, but the other thing I did know she was on, because I had taped it on VHS was a guest star appearance in one episode of the 90's revival of Flipper).

Thomas Dolby, since he plays on the Camera Club version.

I never heard the Camera Club version until the Youtube era, and I could never figure out why the group name sounded familiar to me, but that might be it. I probably saw Camera Club mentioned in a list of Dolby's sessions in Keyboard magazine or someplace like that.

[Steve983]

With advance apologies for a slight thread detour (although we are in Yes-related territory and it's songwriting credit-related) I have the following question:

Can anyone provide any details as to why 'Going For The One' is credited solely to Jon Anderson. To me this song sounds like the result of a classic HSW jam (like 'Have We Really Got To Go Through This') and the rehearsal version on the expanded release only serves to reinforce this impression. I just can't imagine the form in which JA presented this song to the band - it sounds so much like what you get with HSW playing off each other and yet not one of these three is credited.

I don't know but I'm assuming like a lot of Yes tunes Jon probably played a very badly out of tune guitar along with the basic vocal melody and therefore he gets the credit for the song. The band then had to build the rest of the accompaniment around it.

[GuitarGeek]

Can anyone provide any details as to why 'Going For The One' is credited solely to Jon Anderson. To me this song sounds like the result of a classic HSW jam (like 'Have We Really Got To Go Through This') and the rehearsal version on the expanded release only serves to reinforce this impression. I just can't imagine the form in which JA presented this song to the band - it sounds so much like what you get with HSW playing off each other and yet not one of these three is credited.

There's a lot of Yessongs like that. Like Awaken, only Jon and STeve's names appear in the byline. Are we to believe that Jon and/or Steve came up with all the stuff the other three people played, most especially Wakeman's piano intro and pipe organ bit?

Jon's claimed he brought Gates Of Delirium in as a fully written piece, and banged it out on the piano for the others. I might believe he had probably had the basic structure of the first section, and maybe some of the melodies for the "battle" sequence, and maybe even the basic structure of Soon, but I suspect the others came up with a lot of stuff too. I somehow don't see Jon singing the intro to Steve and saying "Can you do something with that?". I just don't buy he had that completely hammered out in his mind before walking into the rehearsal room.

[bondegezou]

OK, but who wrote Kid Dynamo? That was the B-side of the Video Killed... single and I always thought it was a better song.

As for who wrote what on Video Killed..., it kinda sounds like Downes and Wooley are defining "songwriting" differently. Wooley admits he's mostly talking semantics, but my understanding is "songwriting" and "arranging" are two different things, and most people don't understand the difference. In this case, Geoff admits Wooley and Horn had "two verses and a chorus". OK, well, that's about 2/3's of the actual song. Geoff says he came up with the bridge, which would strike me as about 1/3 of the actual song. The rest of it, e.g. the intro, the "You are a radio star" melody (really? He thinks that constitutes a "key part" of the song? You only hear it in the coda, mate!), strikes me as "arranging".

You can't draw a clear line between writing and arranging. They segue into each other.

"Kid Dynamo", as most of the first Buggles album, is credited to Horn/Downes. I don't know about "Kid" in particular, but generally Horn did more of the lyrics and Downes did more of the composing, but both contributed to both.

Henry

[bondegezou]

There's a lot of Yessongs like that. Like Awaken, only Jon and STeve's names appear in the byline. Are we to believe that Jon and/or Steve came up with all the stuff the other three people played, most especially Wakeman's piano intro and pipe organ bit?

The core song is Anderson/Howe, based on something Anderson heard Howe working on in a hotel while on tour. But, yes, they've said that Moraz should probably be co-credited (he contributed to the song in its early form, as played on tour with him) and that Wakeman should be co-credited for his bits (I think management issues made that difficult).

Early on, Yes tended to credit the person who came up with the basic idea or they just credited everyone together. Later on, the credits get more specific and accurate. Squire was good at making sure his contributions were duly noted. "Owner of a Lonely Heart" is nearly all Rabin's musically, but credited to Rabin/Anderson/Squire/Horn. Anderson and Horn re-did the lyrics, while Squire has his bass bit in the middle. 10 years earlier, Squire wouldn't have got a co-writing credit for that.

Henry

[JAMOOL]

I did

[moecurlythanu]

What's fairly certain is that general interest in places like PE for a song like this would be just about nill were it not for that 'association'.

I wouldn't try to predict that. You're probably right, but there's a 321 post thread on PE about a new album from Styx. What's up with that? There's a tendency for a robust Pop element around here regardless, or so it would seem.

[Scrotum Scissor]

^ I'm sure you're right, Moe. After all, 4 Non Blondes and Shaggy had hits too - "What's Up?" and "Boombastic", repsectively - and if Downes or Horn had ever been involved there, this would've been a reason more than well enough to elaborate.

'Cause they're both -classics-.

[infandous]

Personally, I've always hated that song ever since I first heard it when I was 11 years old. I do however, always enjoy Geoff Downs' bitching. Very amusing.

[everyday]

Always liked the Bruce Woolley and the Camera Club album - shame he never did any more (as far as I am aware).

[GuitarGeek]

The core song is Anderson/Howe, based on something Anderson heard Howe working on in a hotel while on tour. But, yes, they've said that Moraz should probably be co-credited (he contributed to the song in its early form, as played on tour with him) and that Wakeman should be co-credited for his bits (I think management issues made that difficult).

Sounds like the deal wtih Genesis and The Musical Box. It's been suggested that all three guitarists who were in the band during the song's...erm, genesis (pun intended), should be named in the byline. We know the first section is based off a demo that Rutherford and Phillips recorded together. And I think Banks has said that the middle section betrays Mick Barnard's "influence", and apparently Hackett was responsible for the guitar lines during the finale.

And yes, I agree that it's blurry line between "songwriting" and "arranging". One might suggest that Matthew Fisher's organ part on Whiter Shade Of Pale might be deemed "arranging", but he won a lawsuit suggesting that he should be getting publishing royalties, since the intro is an "integral part of the song".

Likewise for Clarre Torry's vocal on Great Gig In The Sky, which she improvised, and which was recreated onstage by the various vocalists Pink Floyd took on tour over the years. As I understand it, for the past 15 or so years, her name is now listed in the byline (and presumably, she's seeing publishing royalties now).

Early on, Yes tended to credit the person who came up with the basic idea or they just credited everyone together.

There's probably a lot of bands where stuff like that happened. So whoever came up with the guitar riff or whatever that everyone actually remembers better than any of the lyrics or vocal melody gets frelled out of whatever royalties he or she should probably be getting.

[ThomasKDye]

And yes, I agree that it's blurry line between "songwriting" and "arranging".

Let's take another example, and it's something I've always wondered. Yes's extended intro to "Every Little Thing." Apart from the quick "Day Tripper" guitar lick reference, it has very little to do with the original Beatles' melody. So who would get credit for it if, say, Dee Palmer were to do a symphonic version of just that intro bit? Who gets the royalties for it? Apparently Lennon/McCartney do, even though they had nothing to do with that part of the song. It's all so weird. Yes clearly WROTE that, but they get no credit for it.

Or the Nice's take on "She Belongs to Me." All that added stuff... and only Dylan gets the writing credit?

I know this was more or less a jazz tradition for at least a decade or two, to wildly reinterpret a song so that the original is barely in there, but it's odd to think that the writers of the extraneous music won't even get credit for it.

[GuitarGeek]

Let's take another example, and it's something I've always wondered. Yes's extended intro to "Every Little Thing." Apart from the quick "Day Tripper" guitar lick reference, it has very little to do with the original Beatles' melody. So who would get credit for it if, say, Dee Palmer were to do a symphonic version of just that intro bit? Who gets the royalties for it? Apparently Lennon/McCartney do, even though they had nothing to do with that part of the song. It's all so weird. Yes clearly WROTE that, but they get no credit for it.

Well, there's the example of Deep Purple's version of I'm So Glad, which has a similar sort of fanfare introduction, which was given the title Happiness, which allowed the band to gain credit for their, uh, contribution. On the other hand, on their version of Hey Joe, the fanfare wasn't given it's own title, though it's clearly not part of the original Billy Roberts composition.

I remember David Torn saying when he covered Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) he had to clear it with the Hendrix estate, because apparently Torn couldn't remember all of Jimi's words, so he improvised his own for part of the song.

But you also remind me of things like Devo's version of (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction. OK, Mark Mothersbaugh is clearly singing Mick's words, but is he singing the same melody? Is the rest of the band playing the same chords as on the original version? It's possible the only element of the Jagger/Richards composition they used was just the words.

[Mister Triscuits]

Well, there's the example of Deep Purple's version of I'm So Glad, which has a similar sort of fanfare introduction, which was given the title Happiness, which allowed the band to gain credit for their, uh, contribution. On the other hand, on their version of Hey Joe, the fanfare wasn't given it's own title, though it's clearly not part of the original Billy Roberts composition.

Both of those are borrowed classical themes anyway.

[GuitarGeek]

Both of those are borrowed classical themes anyway.

All the more reason to properly identify the composers properly.

Somethign I've never been able to understand was Greg Lake's I Believe In Father Christmas, which borrows heavily from Prokofiev's Lt. Kije Suite. I never understood why that was never properly identified, even as all the other classical bits that crop in ELP's catalog were (well, once Mrs. Bartok put the fear of litigation in their hearts, anyway).

[bennymania]

"They took the credit for your second symphony...."

[GuitarGeek]

"They took the credit for your second symphony...."

Ya know what? I just realized how ironic that line is, given the fact that Machine Messiah quotes from a Charles-Marie Widor piece.

And since we're sorta talking about Yes here, there's also their version of No Opportunity Necessary ("Or whatever it's called", as Bruford called it), which incorporated themes from the score to a Western called The Big Country.

[happytheman]

Jon's claimed he brought Gates Of Delirium in as a fully written piece, and banged it out on the piano for the others. I might believe he had probably had the basic structure of the first section, and maybe some of the melodies for the "battle" sequence, and maybe even the basic structure of Soon, but I suspect the others came up with a lot of stuff too. I somehow don't see Jon singing the intro to Steve and saying "Can you do something with that?". I just don't buy he had that completely hammered out in his mind before walking into the rehearsal room.

Without having the original album in front of me to check song writing credis.. I seem to recall Gates gave credit to all of the band members. If you dig through interviews with White he has mention several songs where he should have been given credit

[bondegezou]

Without having the original album in front of me to check song writing credis.. I seem to recall Gates gave credit to all of the band members. If you dig through interviews with White he has mention several songs where he should have been given credit

Relayer is credited to everyone, although "Soon" as a single is credited to Anderson.

I don't know whether the money's split 20/20/20/20/20. Tales is split 35/35/10/10/10 (in Anderson/Howe's favour) IIRC.

Henry

[Mister Triscuits]

Without having the original album in front of me to check song writing credis.. I seem to recall Gates gave credit to all of the band members.

You are correct. All songs on Relayer are credited "written and arranged by YES." On Yesshows, "The Gates on Delirium" is credited "Howe/White/Squire/Moraz/Anderson" in that order. (The live "Ritual" is credited "Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/White.")

[bondegezou]

You are correct. All songs on Relayer are credited "written and arranged by YES." On Yesshows, "The Gates on Delirium" is credited "Howe/White/Squire/Moraz/Anderson" in that order. (The live "Ritual" is credited "Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/White.")

Sometimes the order of names is significant. And sometimes it's just random (or alphabetical).

Henry

[Mister Triscuits]

Somethign I've never been able to understand was Greg Lake's I Believe In Father Christmas, which borrows heavily from Prokofiev's Lt. Kije Suite.

Well, that tune wasn't original with Prokofiev; it was an old army song. Similarly, the Falla bit that Deep Purple nicked for "Hey Joe" really came from the Andalusian folk tradition.

Some people like to justify Led Zeppelin's thievery of old blues songs by countering that "all those blues guys just stole from each other, anyway." Well, classical music is full of borrowed themes, too. The last time I heard Petrouchka performed, the pre-concert lecture was about how Stravinsky stole a bunch of contemporary parlor ballads and foxtrots and passed them off as traditional Russian folk tunes.