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Thread: Amorphous Jazz

  1. #1
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Amorphous Jazz

    I’d like some recommendations for jazz suites, jazz which isn’t necessarily based on tunes but consists of long modal improvisations. During the 1970s this sort of thing became, if not commonplace, at least acceptable, after Miles Davis pioneered modal jazz with “Kind of Blue.” I’m thinking here of Herbie Hancock’s “Mwandishi” and Les McCann’s “Invitation To Openness.” I recently ran across a newer example in Charles Lloyd’s “Wild Man Dance” and I’d like to find more.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=WbPC2jroxsc

  2. #2
    Does this count?
    Last edited by jake; 05-31-2018 at 02:15 PM.

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    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    Those examples you quoted are often grouped into something people call Kosmigroov...

    http://www.freeform.org/music/kozmigroov-alist.html
    "And this is the chorus.....or perhaps it's a bridge...."

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    Member nosebone's Avatar
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    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

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    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    Great minds......LOL, Nosebone....
    "And this is the chorus.....or perhaps it's a bridge...."

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    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    I don’t see why not. Thanks! Was not familiar with this.

    Reminds me a bit of the Pharoah Sanders and Alice Coltrane albums from the same period — more good examples.

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    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Not heard the term “kosmigroov” before. Will check it out!

    Huh. Have about half the entries on the list (not sure I’d agree all fit). Will start checking out the other half.

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    Member hippypants's Avatar
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    I love this genre too, so thanks for the list of Kozmigroov, I'd never heard of that either.

    The earlier efforts of Oregon tip into that type thing.

    Alice Coltrane did an album with Santana that is close to it, as do moments of some of Santana's music.

    Been listening to some Terry Riley and although may not sit firmly in that sounds imo gets amorphous.


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  10. #10
    Kozmigroov! I love it as well. First became familiar with it thanks to those Three Blind Mice reissues a few years ago, with the likes of Isao Suzuki, Kosuke Mine, Masaru Imada, Yuji Imamura & Air, and others.

    There is some great stuff to be found there.

  11. #11
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Kozmigroov list (starting at the top) pointed me to Horacee Arnold, whom I did not know, not only the album they listed (“Tales of an Exonerated Flea”, 1974) but his other (“Tribe”, 1973) as well. Both excellent. Not really kozmigroov IMO but nice free-flowing jazz.

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    Boo! walt's Avatar
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    Not sure if this fits your bill,but here it is anyway........



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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Kozmigroov list (starting at the top) pointed me to Horacee Arnold, whom I did not know, not only the album they listed (“Tales of an Exonerated Flea”, 1974) but his other (“Tribe”, 1973) as well. Both excellent. Not really kozmigroov IMO but nice free-flowing jazz.
    I concur. I have both of those Horacee Arnold discs and they're quite nice. They might have been a 2-in-1 CD actually, not sure now... But I do know I got them from Wayside Music a few years ago.

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Kozmigroov list (starting at the top) pointed me to Horacee Arnold, whom I did not know, not only the album they listed (“Tales of an Exonerated Flea”, 1974) but his other (“Tribe”, 1973) as well. Both excellent. Not really kozmigroov IMO but nice free-flowing jazz.
    Dude, you just learned the term Kosmigroov a few hours ago - do you really think your qualified to decide what is and isn’t Kosmigroov?


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    Concur about that Horacee Arnold disk Exonerated Flea...havent heard Tribe yet but that will change shortly.

    I binged on that Kosmigroov list last summer acquiring an embarrassing amount of music from it. It's the be all end all of Kosmigroov resources. Go ahead...engorge yourself...you know you want to!

    best
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    If it ain't acousmatique-It's crap

  16. #16
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Dude, you just learned the term Kosmigroov a few hours ago - do you really think your qualified to decide what is and isn’t Kosmigroov?

    Fair point.

    I was comparing Horace(e) to Mwandishi and Invitation to Openness, which are much more unconventionally structured. But Koz is a large tent, I get that now.

  17. #17
    Could be wrong, but you may want to score some Henry Threadgill, he's recorded A LOT but starting out w/ some Air stuff from the 70's might not be a bad way to go if you haven't done it already. Bob Moses, When Elephants Dream of Music or Anthony Davis Episteme might also hit some of the right neurons.
    Last edited by Bake 1; 06-01-2018 at 12:48 AM.

  18. #18
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Kozmigroov Great list and some new stuff for me to check out for sure, thanks. This will be inspirational since I'm doing a lot old modal playing just now. Curious to see how Kozmigroov maps to that.

    Most of the 72 South Indian scales (perhaps a super set of the Greeks modes) would be considered modes, others map to Western Scales. Does that mean South Indian or Karnatic music is modal? Stretching (or more likely obscuring) the point I guess Gamelan would be supra-modal.
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  19. #19
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    that Kosmigroov list is hardly complete, IMHO...

    McCoy Tyner is nowhere to be seen (and you could write six or seven of his 70's albums in there), but he's hardly the only one either I could think of a few Dollar Brand albums.

    or this:



    Gale's first two albums are stupendous

    Last edited by Trane; 06-01-2018 at 03:42 AM.
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  20. #20
    Member LASERCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    that Kosmigroov list is hardly complete, IMHO...

    McCoy Tyner is nowhere to be seen (and you could write six or seven of his 70's albums in there), but he's hardly the only one either I could think of a few Dollar Brand albums.

    or this:



    Gale's first two albums are stupendous

    You’re not looking at the whole list, just his “A” list.

    The more thorough list is here but I believe it hasn’t been updated in years:

    http://www.freeform.org/music/kozmigroov.html

  21. #21
    Boo! walt's Avatar
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    The Piano Choir.

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    Not kosmigroove per se but if you’re looking for some great, stretching, long playing give some of Billy Harper’s mid/late 70s albums a try. His stuff on Denon/MPS is pretty spectacular.
    More contemporary and not quite a long but really great improv that stretches and morphs in really interesting ways is David Weiss’s Point of Departure band...several albums available via Bandcamp. I’m partial to ‘Venture Inward’ but you can’t really go wrong with any of them.
    The Hooffoot album ventures closer to straight prog/fusion but two sidelong tracks that go into some interesting spaces.
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  23. #23
    Member nosebone's Avatar
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    Nice choices Walt!

    The Jazzman Spiritual Jazz compilations are all pretty great

    I ended up buying them all - https://spiritualjazz.bandcamp.com/album/spiritual-jazz
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  24. #24
    I dig a decent amount of this kind of stuff. The electric Miles and Herbie stuff is highly rated for good reason. I also dig the Alice Coltrane stuff. If you dig Alice and the more acoustic side of this "style", you might dig Michael White's The Land of Spirit and Light. Just listened to that, actually, as a result of this here thread.

    I also recommend Bennie Maupin's the Jewel in the Lotus.

  25. #25
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick L. View Post
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