RIP author Philip Roth

**Rarebird** · 05-23-2018

Just heard the news this author is no longer with us.

Read several of his books and still remember:
Nemesis
The plot against America

**Scrotum Scissor** · 05-23-2018

I just heard this myself.

On studying Jewish-American diaspora as part of my history majors back in the late 90s, Roth was one of the "golden three" of my thesis' literary subjects - the others being Mailer and Zinn.

Roth was unequivocally one of the seminal contemporary writers of the Western world. My grownup life wouldn't have been the same without his work.

**per anporth** · 05-23-2018

Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor

I just heard this myself.

On studying Jewish-American diaspora as part of my history majors back in the late 90s, Roth was one of the "golden three" of my thesis' literary subjects - the others being Mailer and Zinn.

Roth was unequivocally one of the seminal contemporary writers of the Western world. My grownup life wouldn't have been the same without his work.

By contrast, I could never get beyond his dull sexism, & his adolescent desire to shock. There's a whole school of masculinist writing, from Roth to Jacobsen to Welsh, which glories in its will-to-shock. The thing is, it's really easy to churn out this kind of writing - the interweb is full of boys doing this every day. Without nuance, it's little different from having to listen to a pub bore, blaring out their self-consciously provocative takes on "common sense". So, yes, definitely seminal!

**kid_runningfox** · 05-23-2018

I've become a huge fan of Roth's work in recent years. This year I've read The Plot Against America and I Married a Communist and have several others lined up for when I finally finish Irving's A Prayer for Owen Meany. I haven't read any of his more lurid stuff yet (Portnoy's Complaint is on the 'to read' pile), so I'll see what I feel about his work after that. I still think my favourite of his works so far is American Pastoral, which I think is one of the quintessential works of American fiction. RIP to a great writer, even if he was apparently something of a difficult man.

**Scrotum Scissor** · 05-23-2018

Originally Posted by per anporth

By contrast, I could never get beyond his dull sexism, & his adolescent desire to shock. There's a whole school of masculinist writing, from Roth to Jacobsen to Welsh, which glories in its will-to-shock.

There's truth in this. Roth was certainly the modern textbook contrarian, much more so than Bellow or even Mailer, although somewhat less than for instance Capote. But then there's the borderline finesse of how his positions are almost always skewed in dialectics of morale and enactment, bringing life to a level of the common-man absurdity which sets out on a path towards the Camus'ian lore - more forcefully, I'd say, than with Vonnegut et al. (whom I also love). Of course, according to Roth himself, there was nothing specifically 'Jewish' about anything; and thus inherent provocations are empowered.

**Zappathustra** · 05-23-2018

Portnoy's Complaint is one of the great books of the previous century. I've also read American Pastoral which is not so great.

Dull sexism, adolescent desire, Pynchon, Zappa...yes, we've heard that before. Half of the great literature, or even more, wouldn't exist without sexism and desire. IMHO.

**per anporth** · 05-23-2018

Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor

There's truth in this. Roth was certainly the modern textbook contrarian, much more so than Bellow or even Mailer, although somewhat less than for instance Capote. But then there's the borderline finesse of how his positions are almost always skewed in dialectics of morale and enactment, bringing life to a level of the common-man absurdity which sets out on a path towards the Camus'ian lore - more forcefully, I'd say, than with Vonnegut et al. (whom I also love). Of course, according to Roth himself, there was nothing specifically 'Jewish' about anything; and thus inherent provocations are empowered.

I totally get this, Richard - of course! And I do think the 'finesse' of this performative dimension of his writing is what allows it to stand apart from, let's say for argument's sake, the provocations of Milo Yiannopoulos. But I think for the critical reader, the thing is to determine just how successful Roth is in carrying off this ironic distantiation - &, for me, I don't think he manages to do this (& I think this is the case even more so for his later writing).

It's remarkable to think about the gulf that separates the Parisian, or continental European, intellectual writer from their US counterpart (in many ways, I think Latin-American writers are much closer to their European siblings than they are to their US neighbours). Possibly as a consequence of the historical fates that played out over the course of the 20th Century, a certain reflective doubt or disquiet might be said to be the predominant tone in European literature; in contrast, where there is doubt in US writing, it is much more focused on a bewildered flummox whenever power wanes (needless to say, these are clumsy generalisations!). So, you might, at a push, get from Roth to Camus; but you'd never get from Roth to Pessoa!

**Dana5140** · 05-23-2018

I am saddened to know this. I think American Pastoral is simply the greatest book I have ever read. It so firmly describes the world that my parents grew up in, and contrasts that with the changes that occurred in the late 1960s. Roth himself decried the label of being a Jewish writer, claiming he was American and that drew his energy. He was of a time when writers mattered, when they created more than product and when we respected the intelligence it took to construct such fictions. he should have won the Nobel Prize, but it is not being given this year. Sigh.