The Additive and Subtractive Processes, Compounded Meters, and Beyond
http://michaelnace.tripod.com/id4.html
The Additive and Subtractive Processes, Compounded Meters, and Beyond
http://michaelnace.tripod.com/id4.html
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
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“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
welcome. i didn't realize DFA's Chicago piece had been recorded, also interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJCxBhhPVdI
i still prefer Beefheart's use of polyrhythm, it's closer to Stravinsky or Ives where rhythms aren't just overlaid but pulling against each other with magnetic force. Copland too.
It all comes back to this stuff from the early days of jazz exploration.
Math Rock is nothing new. They could learn a lot from studying and listening to a much more sophisticated presentation of complex odd time signature arrangements.
Oh boy.
If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.
"And it's only the giving
That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson
They sure could learn a lot from you. We all could learn a lot from studying a much more sophisticated presentation than us rubes with laptops are capable of.
Why aren't we paying attention? Hmmmmm.....Will have to think about that..... Hmmmmm.....
Maybe it's because we're all having a nice time discussing stuff here and learning stuff here and being polite to each other while the participants in this thread all learn something from each other?
Nah. Couldn't possibly be.
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
Proto-math rock. IMO.
I mean, the spirit of numbers and counting is there, but they are completely different in that they aren't a guitar band. And they would probably mostly not appeal to the folks that math rock is made for.
HEY! was checking out the Patife band and only just now noticed my shout out from the list-makers! THANKS, guys!
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
Thanks, Steve. I figured Egg would not qualify due to the lack of guitars, but proto-math rock sounds fair enough to me.
By the way, in terms of math I wonder what band takes it really further, like not only adding, subtracting or superimposing rhythms, but also solving differential equations and the like :o)
Jokes apart, I would think Michael Maxymenko would probably qualify as at least proto-math rock too, don't you think?
Last edited by Conti; 05-02-2018 at 12:02 PM.
I'm glad you enjoyed. I'm not at all familiar with everything they did, but really enjoy their first album. Years ago I've attended a theater gig of Patife Band together with my cousin Paulo in São Paulo and it was FUN!
By the way, if you are interested in Paulo Barnabé's drumming I'd recommend you to check Itamar Assumpção's first album, "Beleléu, Leléu, Eu". Totally different vibe from Patife Band, but a very idiosincratic album by one of Brazil's most original songwriters.
Right on - Ives was writing the most insane polyrhythmic ideas at the turn of the century. Ligeti and Lutoslawski have their share of intense rhythmic ideas too. I would surmise their influence is (at the very least) present and perhaps even strong with some of these bands.
Could Rich Woodson be included in this style?
If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.
"And it's only the giving
That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson
i was saying Captain Beefheart's use of rhythm seems Stravinskian to me, in nature not sound, math rock is more severely linear and derives from post-rock and minimalism. Brubeck is mentioned in that Drill for Absentee article but math rock is a kind of anti-jazz if anything.
i don't know Woodson but will give a listen, thanks.
Last edited by arcticranger; 05-02-2018 at 06:58 AM.
Yes, I now realise I should have mentioned that in the first place, but somehow I thought it was implied...
Yes that was fun indeed!
I have never heard that one to be honest, but we should also mention he plays on most of Arrigo's albums as well (you know, just to avoid leaving anything "implied" anymore)
Well, there's the song "Calculus" from Frank Zappa's "Dance me This" where they do use calculus in order to align the synclavier tempo with the Tuvan throat singer performance. But I don't think that qualifies, as it is not really using calculus within the musical structure/composition as such, but using it as a tool in order to synchronize the tempos from different sources.
Maybe a better example would be the use of Fibonacci sequence on Tools' song Lateralus. Not that I care much about the final result, but it is interesting to read on how they incorporated that in several aspects of the song, from time signatures, to the lenght of musical phrases, to the lyrics and even in the timing of certain events within the song.
And, if we go completely off topic, there's Xenakis' use of stochastic methods in his music, which is a great example of how to use some really complicated math in music composition.
Last edited by pmrviana; 05-02-2018 at 10:23 AM.
Perspective Vortex - my new solo project available now at http://perspectivevortex.bandcamp.com
Mahtrak Progressive Jazz Rock - www.mahtrak.com
Actually, Sajjanu from Osaka have partly done just that. They have one (or possibly two) releases for Tzadik.
Also, The Flying Luttenbachers (or rather Weasel Walter solo) came close in certain passages on their (his) final release of hyper-angular insanity, Incarceration By Abstraction from 2007. But I wouldn't necessarily call it math-rock.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
I'm not really sure if I'm happy or sad my band Three Piece Combo made it onto that list.
- Matt
Keyboards/Guitar/Bass/etc. - http://www.lebofsky.com
Monstrika | Secret Chiefs 3 | miRthkon | MoeTar | Bodies Floating Ashore | Solo Stuff
No. IMHO. Woodson's Ellipsis was through-composed, dense-as-nada contemporary chamber/ensemble-jazz/(plus zum)rock. But the main point is that (almost) ALL math-rock had/has a common source in the post-punk paradigma, and its primary influences are basically always found in the era after 1980-81; artcore (from the Butthole Surfers to Bad Brains and MX-80 Sound), heavy and thrash metal, classical minimalism, Gamelan etc. And yes, Beef and KCrim, and with some also indeed Magma - these were certainly pre-punk. But I doubt you'll find that many mathrockers who'd claim these as their primary impulse.
I love Woodson's stuff, though.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
Keyboards/Guitar/Bass/etc. - http://www.lebofsky.com
Monstrika | Secret Chiefs 3 | miRthkon | MoeTar | Bodies Floating Ashore | Solo Stuff
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
I can't read 100 best lists but I do hope Rodan was on it. This piece was a 90s dorm room classic and always reminded me of Larks Tongue Pt II.
interesting that Good Morning Captain by Slint was entirely 4/4 but regarded by many as the signature math rock song
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