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Thread: The Who - Shea Stadium 1982 DVD

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interstellar View Post
    It's Hard indeed sounds like they were trying to reclaim their identity. I think they succeeded in a way (as I like the songwriting and the rougher edges) but it was probably half-hearted, especially on Townshend's part. .
    It's Hard sounds to me like a band going through the motions because they're contractually obliged by the record company to do so. This utter lack of interest for me is reflected in the mediocre songwriting (Townshend was effectively 'writing to order' for this album, and boy, does it show, and Entwistle's contributions are just rotten, plodding stadium rock), and the stiffness of the performances. A horrible album to go out on, and it's not surprising that Townshend insisted The Who's record contract be cancelled after the winter 1982 tour - even though it cost him a lot of money as a result. 'Eminence Front' apart (which is the only track where Townshend sounds like he cares, which is probably not surprising as it reflects his spiral into near-fatal drug addiction), It's Hard is a truly dismal album, imho; probably one of the worst ever put out by a band of The Who's stature, and indicative of nothing more than the fact that this time it really was over.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by kid_runningfox View Post
    [and Entwistle's contributions are just rotten, plodding stadium rock
    Well, I guess maybe it reflects my taste for "stadium rock" (whatever that is), but i happen to love Entwistle's songs on both Face Dances and It's Hard. Maybe the rest of the band was "going through the motions", but Entwistle was kicking ass and chewing bubblegum. Listen to his bass playing on Dangerous and One At A Time (and Eminence Front, for that matter). He was giving the performances of a lifetime on this record, and with the best bass tone he'd ever have, too (he may have hated the Alembics, but boy, that sound!). And, apparently, with a sympathetic producer who was willing to crank the bass the way it needed to be. Thunderfingers, indeed!

    But then, I've always loved his songs. I know there's some people who say My Wife is the "weak link" on Who's Next (probably because it's the only song that, at least in theory, didn't spring from the Lifehouse debacle), but I've always dug that song, always thought the lyrics were hilarious (I loved his comment years later that it was an "ironic song" which, "ironically, came true").

    And when they'd play it live, they'd jam out like nobody's business. I don't know if any of you guys have ever seen the Richfield Coliseum footage from '75 or '76 (I forget exactly when), but Townshend plays a great solo, which starts with him hitting a single note and letting it feedback while he hoists the guitar over his head in one of those bad ass guitar hero poses. To me, My Wife was always one of the highlights of the live shows, when it was played.

  3. #103
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    If nothing else, the production on It's Hard is more suited to the band than what Face Dances received. But the cracks were showing. Daltrey went on record as saying about 'It's Hard' something like (paraphrasing) 'hated it then, hate it now'.

  4. #104
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    I don't know if this old, very long post is of interest to anyone but it outlines all the differences between the 90s remixes and the originals which in some cases went out of print.
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...#post-12322016
    The It's Hard discussion reminds me of something else which irritates me on there, that 'people are suffering! I'll say it again' lyric on 'Cooks County'. It's always summed up the malaise of the album for me; Townshend trying to get worked up about something but with little fire. Some interesting quotes from the time here, where Townshend and Daltrey pretty much admit they were going through the motions.
    https://www.thewho.net/discography/albums/ItsHard.html
    'Eminence Front' was apparently Townshend's critique of the nascent 'yuppie' culture.
    Last edited by JJ88; 05-09-2018 at 12:45 PM.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    The It's Hard discussion reminds me of something else which irritates me on there, that 'people are suffering! I'll say it again' lyric on 'Cooks County'. It's always summed up the malaise of the album for me; Townshend trying to get worked up about something but with little fire.
    Yeah, that refrain got old fast, didn't it? The interesting thing is, that song was inspired by a TV program that Townshend had watched about a drug treatment facility in Cook County, Illinois (he apparently thought it was "Cooks County", hence the discrepancy in the song title). So even that topic didn't get him worked up.
    'Eminence Front' was apparently Townshend's critique of the nascent 'yuppie' culture.
    I remember Daltrey saying his interpretation was that the song was about some of the people that Pete found himself around when he started doing hard drugs after Keith died.

  6. #106
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    So why didn't they call it quits after Moon died, like Zeppelin did when Bonham croaked? Was it their record contract? I know Zep's Coda was to clean up the last obligation in their contract with Atlantic. How many LPs did the Who have to deliver?
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    So why didn't they call it quits after Moon died, like Zeppelin did when Bonham croaked? Was it their record contract?How many LPs did the Who have to deliver?
    I've always wondered about that myself. Maybe, at the time, they thought the band "had a future", so they decided to keep going. It's possible they thought, at the time, they had to "keep the juggernaut going", in terms of keeping in the influx of cash coming (note that, as stated in an earlier post, Entwistle, for one, started having money problems once said juggernaut finally ground to a halt).

    But something I've always found curious is that, in the 70's, the band was on MCA in the US (with MCA even reissuing all of their earlier albums, that had been on Decca here). Now, Face Dances and It's Hard were issued on Warner Brothers, Stateside, but Who's Last (the less than perfect double live album drawn from the 1982 tour) was issued on MCA.

    Assuming that Who's Last is a "contractual obligation", how the frell did they come off being able to release two studio albums for a different label before fulfilling said obligation?!

    And talking about Who's Last, ya know, it's been ages since I've listened to it, but I do have it on LP (great photos of the band on the inner sleeves, btw), and at the time that I first got it (circa 84 or 85) I thought it was pretty good. But then, later, I realized how much stuff got left off the album, and how it basically makes them look like a "nostalgia" outfit.

    To whit, there's nothign from It's Hard or Face Dances, even though The Quiet One and several songs from It's Hard every night of the tour. OK, so maybe there's some kind of contractual thing barring the inclusion of anything from the two Warners era albums. Or maybe someone from MCA just didn't want anything from those albums on an MCA release (don't want to appear to be "supporting the other side" as Jeremy Clarkson might suggest).

    But then there's also some weird omissions besides that. Love Reign O'er Me is the only song from Quadrophenia (they also played 5:15 and Drowned regularly, and there's at least a few shows where they did I'm One and Punk Meets The Godfather). And there's a gaggle of other songs that would have made better inclusions than repeating four of the songs that had been on Live At Leeds, e.g. Tattoo, Naked Eye, Love Ain't For Keeping, Sister Disco, etc.

    So, basically, what you have is a live album, recorded in 1982, from a band that had released five albums in the preceding 10 years, but only three songs from that time frame appear on the set (Who Are You and Long Live Rock are the other two), despite the fact that the actual setlists on the tour in question did a reasonably good job of reflecting just about their entire career. Stupid!

  8. #108
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    ^There's also the soundtracks of The Kids Are Alright and Quadrophenia which came out post-Moon. Both double albums too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    So why didn't they call it quits after Moon died, like Zeppelin did when Bonham croaked? Was it their record contract? I know Zep's Coda was to clean up the last obligation in their contract with Atlantic. How many LPs did the Who have to deliver?
    I can only assume they wanted to carry on. But then I think of that late 70s interview with Daltrey where he's on the verge of tears saying that they'll carry on but it can never be the same. Indeed, obviously Daltrey in particular had issues with Kenney Jones' live playing.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    There's also the soundtracks of The Kids Are Alright and Quadrophenia which came out post-Moon. Both double albums too.
    What about them? My point was that Who's Last was released by MCA after the band had already released two new albums for a different label. One assumes either it was a contractual obligation, or there was some kind of clause in the contract that said that MCA could have the option for another live album at any time. Perhaps that was part of them being allowed to switch to Warners, "We can put together a live album, at any time, from any recordings that are available". When the band announced their farewell tour, they decided to exercise that clause.

    I wonder how much the band was actually involved in putting together Who's Last. Wikipedia says it was produced by Cy Langston, who I believe was part of the band's extended family. Apparently he was one of the band's roadies, and he also played guitar on Entwistle's first solo album, worked on the McVicar soundtrack and produced the first album by PhD (an early 80's group featuring Simon Phillips, and Tony Hymas...they were something like the 5th or 6th group to be played on MTV).

    Entwistle said once that when he heard the test pressing of Who's Last, even he thought the bass was too loud on side one, but strangely, it was fine on the rest of the album. But he knew everyone would want a remix, and he believed that if he wasn't present at the mixing session, they'd overcompensate, and according to him, that's exactly what happened. He said when he got the final version of the album, he played side one, then threw it out. He felt it was the worst sounding live album they'd ever done (which is funny, because at the time, they'd only done two of 'em, not counting the live tracks that are on The Kids Are Alright soundtrack).
    I can only assume they wanted to carry on. But then I think of that late 70s interview with Daltrey where he's on the verge of tears saying that they'll carry on but it can never be the same. Indeed, obviously Daltrey in particular had issues with Kenney Jones' live playing.
    Wasn't it Daltrey who likened the situation to putting a Bentley engine in a Rolls, or something like that?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Cy Langston, who I believe was part of the band's extended family. Apparently he was one of the band's roadies, and he also played guitar on Entwistle's first solo album
    I remember at the time Smash Your Head Against the Wall came out that the Cyrano name, which suggests a big nose, made people think that this was a pseudonym for Pete Townshend.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    So why didn't they call it quits after Moon died, like Zeppelin did when Bonham croaked? Was it their record contract? I know Zep's Coda was to clean up the last obligation in their contract with Atlantic. How many LPs did the Who have to deliver?
    Both drugged-out guitarists loved their drugge-out drummer, but unlike Page, Townshend was probably fed up of Moon's antics, coupled with the fact that he suffered hearing loss thanks to Moon's expiriments on stage.

    So somhow, it was probably tempting for them to see how things woukld turn out with Mr Troublemaker

    Oddly enough both band's drugged-out guitarists and main songwriter let their more placid bassist take the top writer slot in the band's last album(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    But then there's also some weird omissions besides that. Love Reign O'er Me is the only song from Quadrophenia (they also played 5:15 and Drowned regularly, and there's at least a few shows where they did I'm One and Punk Meets The Godfather). And there's a gaggle of other songs that would have made better inclusions than repeating four of the songs that had been on Live At Leeds, e.g. Tattoo, Naked Eye, Love Ain't For Keeping, Sister Disco, etc.

    So, basically, what you have is a live album, recorded in 1982, from a band that had released five albums in the preceding 10 years, but only three songs from that time frame appear on the set (Who Are You and Long Live Rock are the other two), despite the fact that the actual setlists on the tour in question did a reasonably good job of reflecting just about their entire career. Stupid!
    For that tour, I also remember You Better, Eminence Front and at last one other song from It's Hard... But TBH, I don't care if they're on Last...

    FTM, I'd even forgotten that this album ever existed until you pointed it in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I can only assume they wanted to carry on. But then I think of that late 70s interview with Daltrey where he's on the verge of tears saying that they'll carry on but it can never be the same. Indeed, obviously Daltrey in particular had issues with Kenney Jones' live playing.
    eazsy to understand why... not sure many in the audience noticed there was even a drummer on stage
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  12. #112
    [QUOTE=Trane;804517]B
    oth drugged-out guitarists loved their drugge-out drummer, but unlike Page, Townshend was probably fed up of Moon's antics, coupled with the fact that he suffered hearing loss thanks to Moon's expiriments on stage.
    I know that Townshend had, at some point, said that it was Moon blowing up his bass drum on the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour (as seen at the beginning of The Kids Are Alright) "caused" his hearing problems, but I also remember a much later interview, from the 90's, I think, where he said he had by then considered that to be not true, and that it was the giant "too powerful" monitors that Daltrey insisted on using that was the main culprit. One of the times he was on Letterman, Townshend insisted that "The Who wasn't a loud group, it was the PA that was loud". Uhm, I'm not an audiologist, so I'm not sure if the exact science, but I'm not sure that actually makes a difference, viz-a-vis hearing loss, ie whether it was the band onstage being loud or it was "just the PA", your hearing is gonna still get frelled if you're within earshot of whatever it was that produced the volume levels that the Guiness Book Of World Records saw fit to commemorate in print for the better part of a decade.

    Also, I always heard the band was loud onstage. You had Moon's "subtle as a sledgehammer" drumming style, plus Entwistle cranking his bass amps so that he could be sure everyone heard what he was playing, and then Townshend had to crank his amps up to match the other two. I've heard it said that although he wasn't vocal about it in public the way Townshend was, Entwistle also had severe hearing loss and in fact, as I understand followed up on Townshend's audiologist's suggestion to "learn to lip read".



    For that tour, I also remember You Better, Eminence Front and at last one other song from It's Hard...
    They didn't do You Better You Bet on the '82 tour. The only song from Face Dances they did in '82 was The Quiet One. But dammit, I had to listen to You Better You Bet every time I went to see them live, circa 1989-2003. They even included it in the encore they did for the Quadrophenia show I saw in 1996.

    As for It's Hard material, they actually played Eminence Front and Dangerous every night of the tour, I believe. It's Hard itself and Cry If You Want were played most nights. Cooks County was played exactly once (in Chicago, because the song was inspired by a TV program Townshend had seen about the drug treatment facility at Cook County Hospital in that city). And Athena and A Man Is A Man were both played a handful of times.

    But as I said, for whatever reason, no material from either of the Warner Brothers era albums were used on Who's Last, and I don't think that's a coincidence. I think there were some logic, either contractual or whatever, stating they shouldn't use anything that had originally appeared on either of the records the band did for a different label.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I know that Townshend had, at some point, said that it was Moon blowing up his bass drum on the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour (as seen at the beginning of The Kids Are Alright) "caused" his hearing problems, but I also remember a much later interview, from the 90's, I think, where he said he had by then considered that to be not true, and that it was the giant "too powerful" monitors that Daltrey insisted on using that was the main culprit. One of the times he was on Letterman, Townshend insisted that "The Who wasn't a loud group, it was the PA that was loud". Uhm, I'm not an audiologist, so I'm not sure if the exact science, but I'm not sure that actually makes a difference, viz-a-vis hearing loss, ie whether it was the band onstage being loud or it was "just the PA", your hearing is gonna still get frelled if you're within earshot of whatever it was that produced the volume levels that the Guiness Book Of World Records saw fit to commemorate in print for the better part of a decade.

    Also, I always heard the band was loud onstage. You had Moon's "subtle as a sledgehammer" drumming style, plus Entwistle cranking his bass amps so that he could be sure everyone heard what he was playing, and then Townshend had to crank his amps up to match the other two. I've heard it said that although he wasn't vocal about it in public the way Townshend was, Entwistle also had severe hearing loss and in fact, as I understand followed up on Townshend's audiologist's suggestion to "learn to lip read".
    I also agree that it was the all-too-loud sonic levels of TW's concerts that rendered EntwShend or TownWistle half deaf. Moon would also be if if he was still alive today. I wonder how Daltrey's hearing is, given that it was partly his decision to be so loud. Part of The Who's legend was that they were the loudest band for a while, before Purple beat them at some Californian gig.

    So yeah, I'm not surprised at all Townshend had changed his mind about hearing loss, twenty years after Moon's death, but back then, he certainly thought it was Moon's pyrotechnics that were the culprit.





    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    They didn't do You Better You Bet on the '82 tour. The only song from Face Dances they did in '82 was The Quiet One. But dammit, I had to listen to You Better You Bet every time I went to see them live, circa 1989-2003. They even included it in the encore they did for the Quadrophenia show I saw in 1996.

    As for It's Hard material, they actually played Eminence Front and Dangerous every night of the tour, I believe. It's Hard itself and Cry If You Want were played most nights. Cooks County was played exactly once (in Chicago, because the song was inspired by a TV program Townshend had seen about the drug treatment facility at Cook County Hospital in that city). And Athena and A Man Is A Man were both played a handful of times..
    I'mnot going to dispute you on this too long, but I have distinct memory of being very annoyed to hear YBYB at the Toronto CNE show in early November (glacial winds sweeping through the stadium too), though I didn't have to suffer it 6 weeks later at the tour-closing doubleheader show at MLG.

    Maybe Mozo-PG can confirm on YBYB being played or not.
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  14. #114
    Here's a fairly comprehensive look at the Who's setlists in 1982: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who_Tour_1982

    If anyone wnats to know the setlist for a particular date, I can check my copy of "The Who Concert File."
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  15. #115
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    I wanted to chime in and say that, while I personally stop caring about The Who after Quadraphenia, that even so, this is a great and interesting thread and I am learning a lot. Thanks!
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  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Part of The Who's legend was that they were the loudest band for a while, before Purple beat them at some Californian gig.
    Other way around. Deep Purple set the record at the California Jam in 1974. I believe the Guinness Book claimed that several audience members were rendered unconscious by the volume levels. Yeah, I suppose dehydration, alcohol (and/or any other chemicals that might have been ingested), fatigue, the weight of thousands of people pushing them into the people in front of them, etc had nothing to do with it, huh?

    The Who broke the record in 1976, during their second performance at the Charleton Football Grounds. I believe The Who's record stood for about a decade. Then in the mid 80's, some American band called Manowar started claiming they played at 160 decibels (or some such). Eventually, the Guinness people officially recognized Manowar, before eventually ditching the matter altogether. I guess they didn't want to be responsible for more deafening themselves trying to break some stupid record.

    BTW, on the topic of "world records", I read once about a guy who planned to break the record for getting the most number of tattoos in a single session. The problem being, between the release of the previous year's book, and the next edition, someone else had already broken the record, but it hadn't been published yet. So this guy engaged in this protracted act of madness, basically for nothing. If I recall, he supposedly had enough naked skin left that they were going to make another attempt, but I don't know what happened with that.


    I'mnot going to dispute you on this too long, but I have distinct memory of being very annoyed to hear YBYB at the Toronto CNE show in early November (glacial winds sweeping through the stadium too), though I didn't have to suffer it 6 weeks later at the tour-closing doubleheader show at MLG.
    Well, if it was played on the '82 tour, it must not have been played very often. It's not mentioned on the Wikipedia page, and it doesn't appear on any of the five shows I'm familiar with from that tour. Yeah, I know "only five shows", but they're taken from throughout the tour, so it gives a sort of a sampling of all (or at least most) of the setlist changes throughout the tour. For instance, the Chicago show opens with I Can't Explain and Substitute, and It's Hard is dropped in favor of Cooks County. But on most of the other shows, they open with My Generation, and I think on at least a couple of them, Substitute isn't played at all.

    Oh, and one other thing, since we're going on and on (or I'm going on and on) about the 82 tour, is it still bugs me that the DVD release of the Maple Leaf Gardens show from the end of the tour is still missing Behind Blue Eyes and Dr. Jimmy (though I did see a video on Youtube where, on Dr. Jimmy, mysteriously, there's no guitar...maybe Townshend's amp went down or the mic died or something, but maybe that's why that one was never released).

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