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Thread: F1 Racing

  1. #476
    Member DrGoon's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how much we were robbed - this is Hungary after all. Without damage, there's really little chance of a Red Bull passing a Mercedes or vice versa. It takes a gulf in performance for that to happen. We could have seen some close running and an undercut, but that would have been it for the front teams, short of somebody making a mistake or going too long on a set of tyres and running into a three second deficit. Not only are Mercedes going to be upset with the incident, but so are most of their F1 customers.

  2. #477
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    Interesting article about Michael Andretti possibly looking at buying an F-1 team: https://racer.com/2021/08/20/andrett...blVhvgp36-gofU

  3. #478
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Interesting article about Michael Andretti possibly looking at buying an F-1 team: https://racer.com/2021/08/20/andrett...blVhvgp36-gofU
    Interesting. I never realized how many racing teams Michael owned.


    The most interesting thing about Michael, imo, is what I just discovered. His wife, since 2006, is Jodi Ann Paterson:

    s-l400.jpg

    If you want to see the issue: http://the-eye.eu/public/Books/PlayB...une%202000.pdf

    If you want to see her layout, go to page 154 of the pdf.
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  4. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    Interesting. I never realized how many racing teams Michael owned.


    The most interesting thing about Michael, imo, is what I just discovered. His wife, since 2006, is Jodi Ann Paterson:

    s-l400.jpg

    If you want to see the issue: http://the-eye.eu/public/Books/PlayB...une%202000.pdf

    If you want to see her layout, go to page 154 of the pdf.
    I had no clue on the Playboy bunny either!

    I knew Andretti Autosport ran a bunch of different race teams, but there were some in the article I was not aware of.

  5. #480
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Interesting article about Michael Andretti possibly looking at buying an F-1 team: https://racer.com/2021/08/20/andrett...blVhvgp36-gofU
    He was a sad failure as an F1 driver - but so were many others who quit driving and formed teams, or manufactured cars. (Frank Williams, Enzo Ferrari, Bernie Ecclestone, to name just a few.)

    I wouldn't mind if it happened.
    Regards,

    Duncan

  6. #481
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    I think there were quite a few reasons for his failure in F1, not all of which were his own doing. One of his failures being he seemed to be unable to come to grips with the standing start. But some of it was just bad luck, too. Not to mention the McLaren wasn't the dominant car it once was and had a lot of mechanical issues. He did make the mistake of not living in Europe, near the team's HQ, opting instead to fly back & forth to the US. I also imagine it wasn't easy being paired with Senna, who'd get all the attention from the team. I recall he finished on the podium once and in one race he came from way down in the field to move through the pack. That might have been when he finished on the podium but I don't know for certain. It was actually one of the better drives I've ever seen. But, yeah, he didn't fare well and ended up putting a lot of pressure on himself. Ron Dennis seemed to be understanding of his situation, according to a comment he made in an interview. He was still fired, tho.

    For some reason, not a lot of drivers that get their start in the US do very well in F1. Andretti, Villeneuve, and Montoya had success but they're the only ones, I think. Bourdais won 4 championships in a row in the US and was a complete nothing in F1.
    Many years ago, I started a misanthropic club. I'm still the only member.

  7. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    I think there were quite a few reasons for his failure in F1, not all of which were his own doing. One of his failures being he seemed to be unable to come to grips with the standing start. But some of it was just bad luck, too. Not to mention the McLaren wasn't the dominant car it once was and had a lot of mechanical issues. He did make the mistake of not living in Europe, near the team's HQ, opting instead to fly back & forth to the US. I also imagine it wasn't easy being paired with Senna, who'd get all the attention from the team. I recall he finished on the podium once and in one race he came from way down in the field to move through the pack. That might have been when he finished on the podium but I don't know for certain. It was actually one of the better drives I've ever seen. But, yeah, he didn't fare well and ended up putting a lot of pressure on himself. Ron Dennis seemed to be understanding of his situation, according to a comment he made in an interview. He was still fired, tho.

    For some reason, not a lot of drivers that get their start in the US do very well in F1. Andretti, Villeneuve, and Montoya had success but they're the only ones, I think. Bourdais won 4 championships in a row in the US and was a complete nothing in F1.
    I could be completely off on this, but I have always thought the reason there have been no real U.S. success stories in F-1 is that in most of the world road racing is king, but here in the U.S. most guys come out of ovals. Yes, there are many road tracks in the U.S. and there are series that run road tracks, but even today it is still more of a niche segment of the racing population. There are dozens of ovals in every state in the union, compared to a lot less road courses. Hell, I have 6 oval racetracks within an hour of my house! In most other countries in the world, oval racing hardly exists, and even where it does, it is a very small segment of the racing populace. Everyone make their bones in road racing, right from when they are young.

    The Andretti’s are a prime example of this. Yes, they have raced all kinds of cars and tracks, but their roots were all in oval (and in some cases dirt oval) racing. I think that has worked against them when trying to compete with the best road racers in the world in F-1.

  8. #483
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Flying in and of the USA for races seems a crazy idea.
    Ian

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    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
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  9. #484
    Member Burley Wright's Avatar
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    So I just went to f1.com to see if anything has been announced about replacing the cancelled Japanese grand prix and there's an ad for goggles4u eyewear superstore on the home page. I don't remember seeing ads on their page before, have I just not been paying attention?
    Then when I click on the link on their page for f1tv I get a 404 for a non-existent page.
    Not real impressed by the official f1 site this morning.

  10. #485
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    I could be completely off on this, but I have always thought the reason there have been no real U.S. success stories in F-1 is that in most of the world road racing is king, but here in the U.S. most guys come out of ovals.
    Not really. People from the US interested in F1 start in kart racing (actually, they all do; Hamilton & Rosberg, for example, were teammates in karting, iirc). Then they graduate to one of the feeder series before getting to CART/IRL. Or they may have jump over to one of the European F1 feeder series, like F3 or F2. Some people from countries outside the US and Europe would/will either go the CART/IRL route or the F1 route, moving to one of those areas. Many Canadians and South Americans came/come to the US hoping for success in CART/IRL to get to F1 (Villeneuve, Montoya, etc) while others may move to Europe (Kanaan). And then, of course, you have drivers from Europe, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand who end up in CART/IRL as an avenue to get to F1 (Alex Zanardi, who actually got into F1 before moving to CART, back to F1, and then back to CART).

    So there are many avenues to get to F1 without competing in local ovals and graduating to other nascar feeder series and nascar. I can give you dozens of names of drivers who did all this, starting with Eddie Cheever and Danny Sullivan, who were teammates in F3. Cheever ended up driving for Ron Dennis in F2 before graduating to F1. Sullivan started in Formula Ford before moving to F3, F2, CART, and then F1. Most recently, Scott Speed started in the US but then jumped over to British F3 as well as several European series before ending up in GP2 (now called F2) and the now defunct A1 Grand Prix before signing as a test driver for Red Bull and getting a dreve for the sister team Toro Rosso.

    Many good drivers don't quite make it to or in F1 and end(ed) up in CART/IRL.

    Maybe the biggest obstacle for a non-European to make it to F1 - if they don't move to Europe - is exposure. Even if they were/are successful in CART/IRL, F1 teams usually aren't interested because the driver isn't at the same track where they can be seen in F2, whose races are run the same weekend as F1. The other big obstacle is equipment. A driver used to driving a CART/IRL car still has a steep learning curve switching to F1. The other major reason Americans, specifically, may have trouble is bias. Most F1 teams don't believe they (or CART/IRL drivers) can compete. This may be an older bias, tho; I'm not sure. It's strange, too, because the former F1 drivers who have driven ovals in the US know how difficult ovals are. And you'd think that info would get back to F1.

    The Andretti’s are a prime example of this. Yes, they have raced all kinds of cars and tracks, but their roots were all in oval (and in some cases dirt oval) racing. I think that has worked against them when trying to compete with the best road racers in the world in F-1.
    You're making a lot of assumptions, Steve. Yes, Mario got his start on short ovals and dirt tracks but then made a name for himself winning the USAC championship 3x in the '60s, the Indy 500, Daytona 500, 12 Hours of Sebring, competing at Le Mans, and sporadically driving in F1 before moving full time to that series in '75. He finished less than half the races that year. He finished 6th in the championship in '76, getting three podiums including one win. In '77, he got five podiums incl four wins. In '78, he won six races and the championship. He never won another race after that season, mostly due to the uncompetitive Lotus. Overall, he won 12 races and the championship in '78.

    As for Michael...

    Following a successful career racing karts, winning 50 of his 75 races over eight years, Andretti moved into racing cars. He won six races to claim the SCCA's Northeast Division Formula Ford championship in 1981. He also drove in a number of Formula Vee races in regional SCCA events. In 1982, he won six of the 11 races on his way to winning the Robert Bosch US Formula Super Vee Championship. He also won the opening race of the 1983 Super Vee season before he moved up to drive in Formula Atlantic, and won his second title by winning the FIA Formula Mondial North American Cup the following season. Although he made his international sports car debut at the 1982 24 Hours of Le Mans, he was denied the opportunity to race, as the Mirage M12 he had chosen to race with his father was disqualified 80 minutes before the race was due to start. The father and son partnership returned to [Le Mans] the following year, and were joined by Philippe Alliot in the Porsche Kremer Racing's Porsche 956, taking third place. Andretti also raced alongside his father in the Riverside 6 Hours where they were joined by A. J. Foyt and Preston Henn, but the Porsche 935 failed to finish. The father and son duo paired up again at the 1984 Daytona 24 Hours, this time in a full-works Porsche 962, which made its race debut. They took pole position, but during the race, the engine broke. (Wikipedia)

    His rookie season in CART was 1984.

    And see, here again, I think his career kinda proves the bias I referred to. IMO, the only reason he got a drive in F1 was because of his last name and the fact that he was a first generation Italian-American. There were drivers at the time that were as successful - or more - than Michael but they never got the opportunity to drive in F1.
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  11. #486
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    Yes, you are probably right. Here in the Midwest oval racing is so much more popular that maybe my thinking is biased by it. It would still be cool if a U.S. driver could emerge into F-1 one of these years.

  12. #487
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    A bit off-topic - I've had fun watching Le Mans this weekend.

    I had a busy weekend, so I recorded most of it and am working through the recordings now...
    Regards,

    Duncan

  13. #488
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    A bit off-topic - I've had fun watching Le Mans this weekend.
    I forgot about it. Truth is, I don't have as much interest in it as maybe I should. I remember when ESPN first televised it and I tried watching as much as I could. I found it quite boring until the last 40 or 50 laps.
    Many years ago, I started a misanthropic club. I'm still the only member.

  14. #489
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal... View Post
    I forgot about it. Truth is, I don't have as much interest in it as maybe I should. I remember when ESPN first televised it and I tried watching as much as I could. I found it quite boring until the last 40 or 50 laps.
    I can easily understand that. I like watching the start, the end, some of the night time footage, and random times during day-2.

    Attending it in person is one of my bucket-list items!! The whole atmosphere, the vibe, the sounds, the smells and the feel of the event must be a rush. I've attended other endurance races, and several F1 races, in the (distant) past, when spectators were still able to roam the inside of the track, grilling, camping out, drinking, socializing, watching the races, and so on. What a blast - and I have to assume that Le Mans is all that multiplied by 100.
    Regards,

    Duncan

  15. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    A bit off-topic - I've had fun watching Le Mans this weekend.

    I had a busy weekend, so I recorded most of it and am working through the recordings now...
    What network was it on? I dialed around the TV for racing several times over the weekend and never came across it.

  16. #491
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    What network was it on? I dialed around the TV for racing several times over the weekend and never came across it.
    It was on Motortrend
    Regards,

    Duncan

  17. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    It was on Motortrend
    Ah, we don't get that so that would explain it.

  18. #493
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    It was on Motortrend
    Massive props to motortrend. They play it complete from beginning to end. Not even speed network did that with similar type of endurance races.
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  19. #494
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobo Chang Ba View Post
    Massive props to motortrend. They play it complete from beginning to end. Not even speed network did that with similar type of endurance races.
    Isn't Motortrend the new name for Speed?

    Anyway - yes, I agree - full coverage, and it damn-near filled my entire DVR
    Regards,

    Duncan

  20. #495
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    Isn't Motortrend the new name for Speed?

    Anyway - yes, I agree - full coverage, and it damn-near filled my entire DVR
    Well at least initially Speed became Fox Sports 1...I suppose the rights or IP or whatever the proper term is may have been sold to another company/motortrend, but I am/was unware of that transaction.
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  21. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobo Chang Ba View Post
    Well at least initially Speed became Fox Sports 1...I suppose the rights or IP or whatever the proper term is may have been sold to another company/motortrend, but I am/was unware of that transaction.
    I thought Speed eventually became MAV-TV? I still get that and they cover a lot of different motorsports, but I did not see Lemans on it.

  22. #497
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    I thought Speed eventually became MAV-TV? I still get that and they cover a lot of different motorsports, but I did not see Lemans on it.
    I've not heard of that channel.

    And since there was questions for us all, according to wiki, it was replaced with Fox Sports family of channels (which apparently includes a Fox Sports Racing for non US areas).
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  23. #498
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    I just figured that Speed became Motortrend TV because

    1) they're both about cars etc., and

    2) when Speed went away, Motortrend was on the same channel no. (on my cable system) as Speed had been before.
    Regards,

    Duncan

  24. #499
    Member since 7/13/2000 Hal...'s Avatar
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    According to Wikipedia, Fox acquired Speed in 2001 and reached a deal with nascar to start showing those races. In 2013, Speed was shut down and rebranded Fox Sports 1. They also dropped F1 coverage, which was picked up by NBC who showed most races on NBCSports.

    Thank God for Mothers Polish and ESPN/ABC. I hope they reach the same deal in 2023 (the current contract runs through 2022).
    Many years ago, I started a misanthropic club. I'm still the only member.

  25. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobo Chang Ba View Post
    I've not heard of that channel.

    And since there was questions for us all, according to wiki, it was replaced with Fox Sports family of channels (which apparently includes a Fox Sports Racing for non US areas).
    I am pretty sure MAV-TV used to be something else, but I don't remember what it was, and I can find no history on it. I think streaming services like DIRTvision, Flo Racing and others have cut into a lot of what MAV-TV used to cover, but I still watch it on occasion. Here is their web site if interested: https://mavtv.com/

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