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Thread: Dream Theater - What happened?

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Yes, and another album like Falling Into Infinity is exactly what I'd love to hear from them again! I can still happily listen to that one.
    Isn't that exactly what Kevin Shirley did on Falling Into Infinity? The fans hated it. I think it's the best thing they ever did.
    Thirded. 'You Not Me' excepted, it's comfortably their best album, imho. Screw the fans, quite frankly.

    Incidentally, is it a crime to state that one of my favourite DT albums is actually When Dream and Day Unite? Admittedly, the production is truly awful, but it has a nave, youthful charm about it, and the songs are actually really GOOD on this album - much better than anything they've produced post-Sherinian. It would be interesting to hear a re-recording of that album with much better sound quality, but you just know that the DT of 2018 would utterly wreck what was so good about that album in the first place.

    Also, what was their beef with Shirley? Even by 97/98 the guy had a fantastic track record, and you would've thought that his time working with Rush would have been credibility enough to produce DT.
    Last edited by kid_runningfox; 03-21-2018 at 11:17 PM.

  2. #152
    I think you could salvage the recordings of WDADU unite, provided you had quality multitrack tapes of the recordings without much printed processing on them, good audio-forensic skills and a capable remixer.
    One of the few cases where some sort of Wilsonisation™ would be really justified - for me, too, the compositionally best album of theirs.

  3. #153
    Member viukkis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    But it's become legend how they had such a hard time with that one, and how they hated working with Shirley, so they'll never repeat that again.
    I think it was mainly Portnoy who had an issue with the "producer interference" on Falling Into Infinity (and didn't shut up about it for years afterwards). At least, Petrucci has always been fairly positive about that album and has said that he was fully on board with the musical direction the band was taking on it.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by viukkis View Post
    I think it was mainly Portnoy who had an issue with the "producer interference" on Falling Into Infinity (and didn't shut up about it for years afterwards). At least, Petrucci has always been fairly positive about that album and has said that he was fully on board with the musical direction the band was taking on it.

    Ironic, as I'm listening to it now in my office thanks to this thread, and it's comfortably the best sounding DT album. I'd forgotten there's a little descending fill that Myung plays as the band goes into the fast section of 'Hell's Kitchen' that never fails to send chills up and down my spine. In addition to being clearly audible, his bass tone on this album is great as well.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid_runningfox View Post
    Ironic, as I'm listening to it now in my office thanks to this thread, and it's comfortably the best sounding DT album. I'd forgotten there's a little descending fill that Myung plays as the band goes into the fast section of 'Hell's Kitchen' that never fails to send chills up and down my spine. In addition to being clearly audible, his bass tone on this album is great as well.
    It's great to see some love for this album after seeing it continuously dissed for ages.

  6. #156
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    It's great to see some love for this album after seeing it continuously dissed for ages.
    It never was by me. I've long hoped for a return to that style of album. Proper production, melodic guitar solos, great keyboard sounds and no schmaltz or grand concept.
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  7. #157
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    no schmaltz
    "Hollow Years"? "Take Away My Pain"? "Anna Lee"?

    I frankly love those songs but I don't see the finale to "Illumination Theory" as being more "schmaltzy" than those.
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasKDye View Post
    "Hollow Years"? "Take Away My Pain"? "Anna Lee"?

    I frankly love those songs but I don't see the finale to "Illumination Theory" as being more "schmaltzy" than those.
    I've always loved Anna Lee, it has an Elton John feel to it and a beautiful chorus. Take Away My Pain is about Petrucci's father dying, I guess I don't apply the term schmaltz to something like that, but it's been a long time since I've heard it actually. Hollow Years is a bit lame, yes, but I don't cringe when I hear it. Comparing those tracks to the swaying, lighter-waving showtune dreck they produced later, I'll take any of them, personally. If there is an element of schmaltz to any of those tracks, it's inherent in La Brie's vocals IMO.
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  9. #159
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    I've always loved Anna Lee, it has an Elton John feel to it and a beautiful chorus. Take Away My Pain is about Petrucci's father dying, I guess I don't apply the term schmaltz to something like that, but it's been a long time since I've heard it actually. Hollow Years is a bit lame, yes, but I don't cringe when I hear it. Comparing those tracks to the swaying, lighter-waving showtune dreck they produced later, I'll take any of them, personally. If there is an element of schmaltz to any of those tracks, it's inherent in La Brie's vocals IMO.
    Completely agree with all of that.

    I haven't listened to this one in a while. Sounds like a good one for the car ride home tonight.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasKDye View Post
    "Hollow Years"? "Take Away My Pain"? "Anna Lee"?
    They're the kind of slow ballad that run a risk of schmaltz, sure, but I don't hear it in these cases. Maybe "Hollow Years" comes closest with the lighter-waving chorus, but it's such a refreshingly straightforward and melodic piece that I can look past it (and the nonsensical title phrase itself).

    I probably always had a skewed view of FII since it was my first, but I've also wondered why it always got panned so much. Their usual flaws are there (e.g. those godawful lyrics to "Just Let Me Breathe"), but no more so than on any other album and sometimes less.

  11. #161
    Member FrippWire's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=markwoll;785078]Saw them with Dixie Dregs during the Metropolis Pt. 2 tour and left after 20 minutes. Muddy noise.

    I saw them on this tour as well and while it wasn't muddy noise, they were B-O-R-I-N-G as hell. Cold, emotionless. The Dregs were the calling card for me that night anyway. But still, I was hoping to enjoy DT since I had enjoyed all their CD's up until then.

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by kid_runningfox View Post
    Incidentally, is it a crime to state that one of my favourite DT albums is actually When Dream and Day Unite? Admittedly, the production is truly awful, but it has a nave, youthful charm about it, and the songs are actually really GOOD on this album - much better than anything they've produced post-Sherinian. It would be interesting to hear a re-recording of that album with much better sound quality, but you just know that the DT of 2018 would utterly wreck what was so good about that album in the first place.
    Not a crime at all. WDADU is absolutely my favorite DT album. Not only do I love the songs, but I don't mind Charlie Domenici's voice, and as an '80s guy the production seems "normal" to me. The mix is atrocious and could certainly do with a freshening up. It's interesting that they were recording this in the same studio and at the same time that Metal Church was recording Blessing in Disguise, which is another awesome album with a terrible, murky mix. The studio was apparently built in some old armaments factory, from what I read. The odd thing is that Operation Mindcrime was recorded at the same studio and sounds fantastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by sphinx View Post
    I think you could salvage the recordings of WDADU unite, provided you had quality multitrack tapes of the recordings without much printed processing on them, good audio-forensic skills and a capable remixer.
    One of the few cases where some sort of Wilsonisation™ would be really justified - for me, too, the compositionally best album of theirs.
    I'd love to hear Steven Wilson do something with this, assuming that the multitracks even exist and that whoever owns the rights to the album would agree. The band themselves have no control over it.

  13. #163
    The Keyboard/Guitar solo section in "Light Fuse and Get Away" from WDADU is, for me, the best musical moment laid down by Dream Theater. I also would like to live in a timeline where FII was their last album.

  14. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by stickman393 View Post
    The Keyboard/Guitar solo section in "Light Fuse and Get Away" from WDADU is, for me, the best musical moment laid down by Dream Theater. I also would like to live in a timeline where FII was their last album.
    In general, the keyboards and bass are equal partners with the guitar on WDADU, and that was the last and only time this was the case for DT.

  15. #165
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    Three of my top 10 DT tunes are on WDaDU.
    I have cassette (bought at Ritz), import CD and then the remastered disc.

    But still I prefer Awake overall.
    No one plans to take the path that brings you lower

  16. #166
    Member TheH's Avatar
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    I bought WDaDU when it came out and was a big fan of it. It never even occurred to me that it was so bad in production, until almost
    everybody said so later on.

    I thought Images had it's moments but was a let down (boring new vocalist). Awake was a shock, totally emotionless ice cold wanking,
    and not a single interesting vocal line ... that was it for me with DT.

  17. #167
    Still one of my favorite bands.

    The still manage to release good albums. ok the Astonishing didn't really work, but i like Octavarium, Systematic Chaos and Dramatic Turn of Events.

    I think that Petrucci is the driving force behind them. I don't really think that Moore or Sherinian were such a bit loss. Rudess is actually a great fit for them. The LTE albums were great, probably their best project, on par with DT's best.
    Their third album without Petrucci was bad and that actually proves my point on his importance.

    Portnoy was also an important member, not for his songwriting skills but mostly for his unique style and his drive for experimentation. Nowadays he plays on too many projects. Most of them are forgettable imo.
    Mangini is good drummer, no doubt about that, but i think that Portnoy was more fun and original.

    Most of their fans worship Awake an Falling into infinity. I rarely listen to Falling... and i think that Awake is overrated.

  18. #168
    ^Petrucci has been on every album. Not sure where you think he wasn't on their third (Awake?).

  19. #169
    I was referring on the Liquid Tension Experiment (LTE) project from the members of DT

  20. #170
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by expresso View Post
    I was referring on the Liquid Tension Experiment (LTE) project from the members of DT
    ????
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  21. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    ????
    JP didn't appear on the third Liquid Tension release. IIRC, it was compiled from jams the other three made during the LTE2 sessions when John was away with his family.

  22. #172
    I think it was called Liquid Trio Experiment...

  23. #173
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    I totally blanked on that one.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  24. #174
    Member Mikhael's Avatar
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    I absolutely do NOT get the disdain for LaBrie on here. It makes no bloody sense to me. Yes, he has a couple of bad habits, like his tongue sticking out on notes in the high register, which seems to screw up his diction somewhat. Yes, he used to growl some - it was the times. But he has a nice vibrato, clear voice, and hits the notes almost as well as Steve Perry used to. Hey - the guy can SING.

    My issue with DT is in the writing. I love some of the instrumental passages, and a lot of the material. But sometimes the guitar/keys dual stuff gets a little much, and it seems they're geared more towards showing technical prowess sometimes over musical content. Oddly enough, it seems Portnoy's departure has removed some of the soul from the band as well, as good as Mangini is. Not sure why, but that's the impression I get.

    But JL? I'm good with him. So much of what he does is also tied in with what they want him to do; his input on the writing and melodic content seems minimal, according to most of the things I've heard/read.
    Gnish-gnosh borble wiff, shlauuffin oople tirk.

  25. #175
    I agree, he's a good a singer. Sometimes his bandmates write voice straining material... making him sing from high pitched to thrash metal vocals. Overall i like his performance, he has a good range.

    In the older days he could really hit those high notes, but he ruptured his vocal cords in 1994
    After that he had couldn't sing as good for a while. It took him a few years to recover.

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