Dream Theater - What happened?

[FrippWire]

This thread prompted me to go back and listen to the dozen or so DT discs I had. I kept a few including "Seasons", "Black Clouds" and "Infinity" and turned the rest into cash down at the used record store.

[arabicadabra]

> The odd thing is that Operation Mindcrime was recorded at the same studio and sounds fantastic. <

Wow, I'll say. I had no idea. Kudos to Peter Collins.

[ytserush]

Or, indeed, any of the amazing solo albums Sherinian's made over the last decade and half, all of which are better than anything DT put out after they hoofed him.

I love those albums too, but I don't think they're very similar to what Dream Theater was doing.

[ytserush]

I guess I’m talking more fusion. Petrucci’s solos on images and words as well as awake are very blues based; in scales as well as emphasizing. The harmonic concepts in general on images and words are very jazzy. Also there’s an entirely holdsworth infused fusion section on a change of seasons I was thinking about. Generally there was just a more easy going mood on many of their earlier work which makes me think that they were just jamming and improvising in the studio. I don’t think that happens anymore these days...

Exactly, I don't think there's a lot of that anymore. Which, to me is a shame, but that seems to be the road they want to go down.

[ytserush]

Fucking awesome show. Bought the WDADU cassette from the merch stand.

Already had the CD never thinking I'd ever see this band live.
I bought a shirt (I planned on getting a Seasons End shirt that evening but plans changed when I saw the marquee.)

[ytserush]

Which rather begs the question why he doesn't do more of that with Dream Theater. Incidentally, I love Rudess's contributions to the Liquid Tension Experiment albums, but really dislike his work with DT. In particular, his selection of sounds with DT is often distinctly unimaginative or truly awful and inappropriate, with some of his lead sounds being especially jarring. I'm not sure if it's quite the right phrase to employ in the context of a band that so fetishizes technical complexity for its own sake, but there seems to be a real 'dumbing down' of the various members of DT that isn't visible when they work in other contexts. It's clear that since at least SFOAM they've been working to a formula that's become more hackneyed and worn-out with successive iterations, but yet they seem either unable or unwilling to depart from.

Been trying to understand that one for more than 10 years now. There seems to be a fairly rigid formula at work here in the band context.

[ytserush]

Thirded. 'You Not Me' excepted, it's comfortably their best album, imho. Screw the fans, quite frankly.

Incidentally, is it a crime to state that one of my favourite DT albums is actually When Dream and Day Unite? Admittedly, the production is truly awful, but it has a naïve, youthful charm about it, and the songs are actually really GOOD on this album - much better than anything they've produced post-Sherinian. It would be interesting to hear a re-recording of that album with much better sound quality, but you just know that the DT of 2018 would utterly wreck what was so good about that album in the first place.

Maybe it a crime, but it's a Top 3 Dream Theater album for me along with Six Degrees and Octavarium.

[kid_runningfox]

> The odd thing is that Operation Mindcrime was recorded at the same studio and sounds fantastic. <

Wow, I'll say. I had no idea. Kudos to Peter Collins.

Sometimes I get the impression that Mindcrime is the album DT have been trying to re-make since 1999. And failing. Miserably.

[MudShark22]

^ DT was never actually angry enough to write something like Mindcrime. More like posing angry.

Re:FII
At the time I was real disappointed but I was such a Kev Moore fanatic that I doubt anything would have been satisfying. I am sooper huge fan of Derek's post DT solo stuff too! lol

[Top Cat]

What happened to Dream Theater?
Kevin Moore departure
Derek Sherinian.. good addition, added raw down to earth keyboards and playing
then the replacement of Derek with Jordon Rudess (bad move)
Mike Portnoy departure
Mike Magini plays too clean and buried in the mix to highlight JP's playing.
Dream Theater has really become JP's band, he's the puppet master and has complete control with support from Jordon.

I have everything Dream Theater has done, including some Official Bootlegs and their concert DVD's up to Live at Luna Park.
After several attempts to get through a complete listening of the A Dramatic Turn of Events cd, I didn't even know they had a drummer anymore, I gave up and donated the cd.
I wanted to like them and continue to support them, but I just didn't like what I heard anymore.
I will always love JP's playing, he's fantastic, but the DT thing is done for me.
I think JP and Mike P always kept each other in check and balanced each other, but it's clear without Mike P in the band, it's John's vision and well, I think the missing link is Mike Portnoy.
Shame it's come to it, and they still please a lot of fans, so good for them on that. I'm just not there anymore.
If I get DT nostalgic I'll throw on the Images and Words CD or Falling into Infinity with Derek on keys.

[MudShark22]

If want to hear Derek with DT - its ACoS every time.

[julioscissors]

^ DT was never actually angry enough to write something like Mindcrime.

I'm with you there. Anytime they tried to "metal up" it sounded kind of embarrassing. I blame the singer and the drummer trying to sing.

They're like Broadway metal, to be honest. I love lots of their stuff, but they ain't heavy. They almost pulled it off on "Train of Thought".

[aith01]

I'm with you there. Anytime they tried to "metal up" it sounded kind of embarrassing. I blame the singer and the drummer trying to sing.

They're like Broadway metal, to be honest. I love lots of their stuff, but they ain't heavy. They almost pulled it off on "Train of Thought".

My brother -- who liked Dream Theater for a while at least -- always said that whenever DT used profanity in a song, it felt like a kid using curse words in an effort to sound cool.

I think you're right with regard to Train of Thought; they were fairly close to the mark. That one was pretty interesting.

[Kcrimso]

I think you're right with regard to Train of Thought; they were fairly close to the mark. That one was pretty interesting.

The best thing they ever did. Falling Into Infinity is half-good also.