The 2018 NFL Discussion Thread

[progeezer]

The Giants best player is, by far, a rookie.

Hurt to watch (not surprisingly Blue is my #2 team after the Cheese).

[Klonk]

Barkley needs 1 passing yard to become the first Giant ever to gain 100yds both rushing and receiving. I hope he gets it.

[moecurlythanu]

OBJ has a personality disorder. For all his immense talent, he's a cancer and a coach killer. Not that Shurmur was going to be successful anyway.

[DocProgger]

Aikman always has severely bloodshot eyes on these broadcasts. Is he a drinker? Good analyst but man he looks rough sometimes.

[moecurlythanu]

Hurt to watch (not surprisingly Blue is my #2 team after the Cheese).

Which allows me to ask a question I've wondered about for a long time: This one's for the New Yorkers...What's the dividing line for fandom between the Giants and the Jets? Is it geographical? Are the Jets just Queens? I know the Giants are older, so I expect that their fan base would be larger, but if it's not geographical, then what?

I've wondered the same thing about the dividing line between Yankees and Mets fans, and assumed the Yankees were analogous to the Giants and Mets to the Jets. Wrong or right? I'd ask about Islanders-Rangers too, but I'd assume that the Islanders are just Long Island. But that's Manhattan, isn't it? Has to be a huge number of people potentially.

Anyway, not a New Yorker, but wondered about this for yonks. (Not Yonkers, yonks.)

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

OBJ has a personality disorder. For all his immense talent, he's a cancer and a coach killer. Not that Shurmur was going to be successful anyway.

^^^^
this

the guy needs some professional help

[Lou]

Man, that Eli sure is impressive.

[Painter]

Barkley...

Even though he's on the Giants, he is going to be an amazing player to watch (as long as he isn't playing the Eagles). I'm a huge fan of RBs and Barry Sanders. I know some here thought he was a waste of a draft pick that high, but with what the Giants have now (Engram out), he is just about their only reliable weapon they have (OBJ, I'm looking at you). He is someone that they could rebuild around. Granted the game's changed a lot since, but for a long time, Walter Payton was essentially the only weapon the Bears had.

[Scott Bails]

Man, the Giants are a mess!

Exactly the kind of game that the Eagles needed. Saquon shredded their defense, but otherwise, a solid performance. Kudos to Pederson for adjusting the offense after it became evident early that the offensive line couldn't block anyone. Hopefully this is a springboard to better things.

[Scott Bails]

Barkley...

Even though he's on the Giants, he is going to be an amazing player to watch (as long as he isn't playing the Eagles). I'm a huge fan of RBs and Barry Sanders. I know some here thought he was a waste of a draft pick that high, but with what the Giants have now (Engram out), he is just about their only reliable weapon they have (OBJ, I'm looking at you). He is someone that they could rebuild around. Granted the game's changed a lot since, but for a long time, Walter Payton was essentially the only weapon the Bears had.

As good as Barkley is (and he's amazing), the Giants would have been better going for a QB. They're going to regret relying on Eli. That's going to set them back years. You don't build around a RB in today's NFL.

[Shadow]

As good as Barkley is (and he's amazing), the Giants would have been better going for a QB. They're going to regret relying on Eli. That's going to set them back years. You don't build around a RB in today's NFL.

You gotta protect the guy.

[Klonk]

Exactly what I would would call the Giants..."a mess". It appears to me that with OBJ becoming a leader on the team, other players are following in his footsteps with the hissy fits and selfish attitudes. Eli Apple, Sterling Sheppard etc. It aint pretty! That ESPN interview with Odell (and Lil Wayne who the fuck knows why) certainly wasn't helpful. Something needs to change.

You know that deep, internal instinct to screech, flail and almost shit yourself when you come in contact with a beehive? This is Eli in the pocket with this offensive line. The second there is pressure every Giant fan knows that something real bad is about to happen. I feel bad for the dude because he's a good person and gets a shit ton of hate, but I'm also honest...he's done.

[Scott Bails]

It has to be frustrating watching that Giant offense. They have no deep threat. If not for Barkley, they probably wouldn't have gotten a single first down last night.

[Poisoned Youth]

As good as Barkley is (and he's amazing), the Giants would have been better going for a QB. They're going to regret relying on Eli. That's going to set them back years. You don't build around a RB in today's NFL.

I agree, but there's been a lot of criticism surrounding drafting RBs so early in the 1st round. And I don't get that. Here are the last 6 RBs that were drafted in the top half of the first round...

Saquon Barkley (2)
Leonard Fournette (4)
Christian McCaffrey (7)
Ezekiel Elliott (4)
Todd Gurley (10)
Melvin Gordon (15)

4 of these 6 are current leaders in the NFL. McCaffrey is competitive. Fournette had a solid 1st year, but injuries last year and this year have really hurt.


Anyway, I know it's early, but I hope I was vindicated on my praise of Barkley before the draft. I don't blame the Giants for picking him. They just have other problems and were/are not a great team at the moment. Though I think they might be better served looking for a QB in FA next season than through the draft.

[Painter]

As good as Barkley is (and he's amazing), the Giants would have been better going for a QB. They're going to regret relying on Eli. That's going to set them back years. You don't build around a RB in today's NFL.

I have to agree. I initially was on board with drafting him (if I were the Giants) but I read this from fivethirtyeight:

"In any study of the NFL draft, you expect to reach two conclusions if teams are successfully identifying players who will do well in the NFL and making smart picks as a result: You would see that players drafted in higher rounds are more likely to be successful, and that higher picks tend to get more opportunities to play. In most cases, a first-round pick will be given time to prove his worth, while a seventh-round pick is fortunate just to make the team.

Yet when we broke down the numbers for running backs who were drafted between 2002 and 2017 and who actually played in the NFL, we did not find much difference in performance from round to round. No matter when backs were drafted, they posted pretty similar numbers in terms of yards per carry and rushing Defense-Adjusted Value Over Average (an efficiency metric explained here).

One place we did see a difference by round is in yards from scrimmage per game — running backs drafted in earlier rounds performed better here, but that’s a bit misleading. These backs are not actually more efficient on a per-play basis, so their higher total yards from scrimmage may just reflect additional playing time. In fact, backs drafted in every round averaged something close to 4.20 yards per carry, and efficiency peaked at 4.33, among backs taken in the third round. Jamaal Charles was a third-round pick in 2008 and his average of 5.39 yards per attempt is the highest in NFL history (minimum 1,000 rushes). Third-round picks Kareem Hunt, who led the NFL in rushing yards in 2017, and Offensive Rookie of the Year Alvin Kamara were far more efficient than first-rounder Leonard Fournette last year."

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-be-a-mistake/

[Painter]

Though I think they might be better served looking for a QB in FA next season than through the draft.

I'm sure Sam Bradford will be available

[Scott Bails]

I agree, but there's been a lot of criticism surrounding drafting RBs so early in the 1st round. And I don't get that. Here are the last 6 RBs that were drafted in the top half of the first round...

Saquon Barkley (2)
Leonard Fournette (4)
Christian McCaffrey (7)
Ezekiel Elliott (4)
Todd Gurley (10)
Melvin Gordon (15)

4 of these 6 are current leaders in the NFL. McCaffrey is competitive. Fournette had a solid 1st year, but injuries last year and this year have really hurt.


Anyway, I know it's early, but I hope I was vindicated on my praise of Barkley before the draft. I don't blame the Giants for picking him. They just have other problems and were/are not a great team at the moment. Though I think they might be better served looking for a QB in FA next season than through the draft.

It's not about them being "leaders in the NFL." I'm not arguing that they're not good players. But several of the guys you mentioned will never win anything because they don't play with a decent QB (Fournette, Elliott, Barkley). The only guy with a chance to really win anything is Gurley, because his team has a very good defense and a potentially great QB.

You can win with a very good QB and an average running game, but it's pretty rare these days to do the opposite.

[Painter]

Scott, re: Gritty. A friend of mine told me this weekend that the NHL basically told the Flyers that they need to get a mascot. They (the Flyers) and the NHL is missing out of revenue by not having a mascot. The Flyers basically said that they weren't interested, that they are the Broad Street Bullies. But the NHL forced them, so the Flyers intentionally got the creepiest mascot design to thumb it in the NHL's face. Do you know if there is any truth to this?

BTW, I love Gritty's tweet in reply to the Pittsburgh Penguin tweet mocking Gritty: "Sleep with one eye open, bird."

[Poisoned Youth]

You can win with a very good QB and an average running game, but it's pretty rare these days to do the opposite.

I'll give you that. We aren't really disagreeing, but I think if you're the Giants you still make the move they did and worry about QB next season. Apparently they either weren't convinced on Darnold, or convinced that Eli was finished, because they certainly had the option.

[Scott Bails]

Well, they'll most likely have a shot at a top 3 QB in this year's draft, the way they're going.

[NogbadTheBad]

They may be more convinced about Eli's long term future now. Man they looked awful last night.

[DocProgger]

Nothing prevents the Giants from drafting or signing a FA QB after this year. Until they build up their OL, it would be silly to subject a rookie QB to this, that could be a career killer.

[Facelift]

Well, they'll most likely have a shot at a top 3 QB in this year's draft, the way they're going.

There aren't any QBs in this year's draft as good as any of the top 4 from last year. If the Giants get a top 3 pick but don't think there is a pass-rusher or tackle worthy of being picked in their spot, then they should trade down.

[Scott Bails]

There aren't any QBs in this year's draft as good as any of the top 4 from last year.

I don't really follow this stuff that closely until the draft is nearer. If this is the case, then they really blew it.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Nothing prevents the Giants from drafting or signing a FA QB after this year. Until they build up their OL, it would be silly to subject a rookie QB to this, that could be a career killer.

That is absolute fact. Especially for a rookie, they need to build confidence