Thread: The 2018 NFL Discussion Thread

  1. #276
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Aaron Rodgers now owns part of the Milwaukee Bucks. He previously owned the Detroit Lions and the Dallas Cowboys.
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  2. #277
    Member Lou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Aaron Rodgers now owns part of the Milwaukee Bucks. He previously owned the Detroit Lions and the Dallas Cowboys.
    A Comfort Zone is not a Life Sentence

  3. #278
    As a Giants fan, it was sickening to watch them take Barkley with the #2 pick. He would need to be Jim Brown in order to provide value at this spot in the draft. I'm not convinced that his NFL career will even be particularly good.

    And even if he is good, his contract will be a burden to this team long after the new GM is fired - which probably will be only a few seasons from now. What team who is any good is paying a huge post-rookie contract to a running back? Pathetic.

    The only fans who have to feel more sick after the first round are Browns fans. If this was a month ago, anybody would have laughed to death if they heard the Browns were taking these guys with those two picks. As it is today, this is still a pair that they didn't need picks #1 and #4 to get. Very bad job by the front office by not trading down.

  4. #279
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Not sure about the Seahawks pick, we certainly need a downhill RB but the OL is greater need and RB's can typically picked later. I guess we'll see.
    Ian

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  5. #280
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    As a Giants fan, it was sickening to watch them take Barkley with the #2 pick. He would need to be Jim Brown in order to provide value at this spot in the draft. I'm not convinced that his NFL career will even be particularly good.

    And even if he is good, his contract will be a burden to this team long after the new GM is fired - which probably will be only a few seasons from now. What team who is any good is paying a huge post-rookie contract to a running back? Pathetic.
    Heh, Jim Brown was quoted yesterday as advocating the Browns take Barkley with the first pick.

    Anyway, I don't agree with your assessment but respect your passion on it.
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  6. #281
    facetious maximus Yves's Avatar
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    Did the Browns screw up once again? I did not see those two players going 1 and 4.... Funniest moment for me last night was when the Saints traded up and everybody on the panel was convinced it was for Jackson, going on and on...and then they pick Davenport!

    Something to remember from this first round, for down the road. Raiders' and Niners' draft order was decided by a coin toss. Niners won and then they picked the man the Raiders were going to pick. Raiders then trade down with Niners' division rival Cardinals, who select Rosen. If Rosen ends up having a career, he will make the Niners pay. Overlooked subplot, imo....

    Raiders did what they had to do. They traded down knowing the second best tackle in the draft would be there at 15. They got an extra 3rd and 5th for it. They then traded one of their 3rds for Bryant of the Steelers. I'm OK with that.
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  7. #282
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yves View Post
    Something to remember from this first round, for down the road. Raiders' and Niners' draft order was decided by a coin toss. Niners won and then they picked the man the Raiders were going to pick. Raiders then trade down with Niners' division rival Cardinals, who select Rosen. If Rosen ends up having a career, he will make the Niners pay. Overlooked subplot, imo....
    Very interesting.
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  8. #283
    facetious maximus Yves's Avatar
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    I found it interesting... I kind of pieced it together myself. Mayock had Raiders picking McGlinchey at 10. Niners took him at 9. The moment the Raiders made the trade I figured they were after a O-lineman who would be there 5 spots lower. Then the Cards picked Rosen and I laughed! Cards are my No 2 team!
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  9. #284
    PE Member Since 4/9/2002 NeonKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Heh, Jim Brown was quoted yesterday as advocating the Browns take Barkley with the first pick.

    Anyway, I don't agree with your assessment but respect your passion on it.
    Yeah, I feel like we picked the best player in the draft. Happens to be a RB, haven't had one of those since Bradshaw. Did not love the QB's either, and I trust the new regime.

    Play action is back on the menu for Eli, which will help him a lot. Barkley is a threat to score any time he gets the ball. He is 233 lbs and runs a 4.4, catches the ball like a wideout and blocks well. They will get more help for the OL the rest of this draft.
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  10. #285
    PE Member Since 4/9/2002 NeonKnight's Avatar
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    Pretty shocking that Dorsey went Mayfield! And then missing Chubb and taking the Ohio State CB instead?

    Wow, he better be right...I know the Giants loved Chubb...

    Do the Jets have a QB at last? Darnold does not have to play this year, which is what he needs. Knowing the Jets, they will play him too soon. Allen in Buffalo seems a good fit, I kind of liked him. I also thought Miami would jump into the QB derby with Rosen but instead Arizona steps in. He will be good if he stays healthy, big if....
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  11. #286
    Irritated Lawn Guy Klonk's Avatar
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    Giants definitely made the right choice. This Barkley kid is awesome. The last time they had a dynamic RB like this was who...Tiki Barber? It's gonna get me to watch and I'm lookin forward to it.

    Great job Giants!
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  12. #287
    facetious maximus Yves's Avatar
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    Some feel #2 overall for a RB is way too high, but the NFL has shifted its view concerning that position in recent years. . Is he a bigger risk than a QB or a DE? No. He'll play immediately and will make an impact. What more can you ask a young player to do? This guy may be the piece the G-Men need to get back into contention in their division
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  13. #288
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    As a Giants fan, it was sickening to watch them take Barkley with the #2 pick. He would need to be Jim Brown in order to provide value at this spot in the draft.
    I've been following Pro Football since 1971. I've never seen hype by media and fans like there was for Saquon Barkley this year. Not even the great HoF back Reggie Bush had this level of hype. I did hear one pundit trot out the Jim Brown/Walter Payton comp, which I thought was ridiculous. That's who he has to be to meet the hype. Is he the Michael Jordan of Football? Put me down for a "no."

    I'm not convinced that his NFL career will even be particularly good.
    He'll be quite the weapon if you get him the ball in space. I expect him to compare favorably to Christian McCaffrey. Is that good enough for the No 2 overall pick? I have major doubts that he can be the bell cow and carry the ball 25 times a game. I think I heard someone say that he only had 2 games with 20+ carries last year. I'm also very skeptical that he can be an elite between-the-tackles runner. I'm glad the Giants took him.

    The only fans who have to feel more sick after the first round are Browns fans. If this was a month ago, anybody would have laughed to death if they heard the Browns were taking these guys with those two picks. As it is today, this is still a pair that they didn't need picks #1 and #4 to get. Very bad job by the front office by not trading down.
    Yeah, I'm probably too stunned to be gutted right now. That'll come later. I didn't want Mayfield at all, but I think Dorsey thinks he's Brett Favre. As for Ward, he was my 3rd choice at 4. (2nd choice was a trade down.) I read that they wanted the player more than the capital being offered in trade by other teams, so I have to assume the teams making the offers were too low in the draft. Still, how do you pass on Chubb, which would have given you bookend pass rushing studs? I don't get it.

    We were thrilled to lose the Analytics guy and get a real Football guy making the decisions...The fucking air is out of the balloon now.
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  14. #289
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    I think Barkley is going to have a very good, if not great NFL career. I'm just not sure if he was the right pick for the Giants at #2.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  15. #290
    facetious maximus Yves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I think Barkley is going to have a very good, if not great NFL career. I'm just not sure if he was the right pick for the Giants at #2.
    Giants still all-in with Eli and Barkley was the best toy they could get him. I believe he will pay instant dividends barring an injury.
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  16. #291
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yves View Post
    Giants still all-in with Eli
    This is why I'm not sure if that's the right pick at #2.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  17. #292
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    They're running "Browns Therapy Friday" on one of the 2 Sports Talk stations I listen to.
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  18. #293
    Irritated Lawn Guy Klonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yves View Post
    Giants still all-in with Eli and Barkley was the best toy they could get him. I believe he will pay instant dividends barring an injury.
    I do too. People just love to hate on Eli. No he can't move, but he is still a good QB when he has protection. Protection that got better with the addition of Nate Solder. Also...Davis Webb may surprise as a back-up.
    "Who would have thought a whale would be so heavy?" - Moe

  19. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    I've been following Pro Football since 1971. I've never seen hype by media and fans like there was for Saquon Barkley this year. Not even the great HoF back Reggie Bush had this level of hype. I did hear one pundit trot out the Jim Brown/Walter Payton comp, which I thought was ridiculous. That's who he has to be to meet the hype. Is he the Michael Jordan of Football? Put me down for a "no."



    He'll be quite the weapon if you get him the ball in space. I expect him to compare favorably to Christian McCaffrey. Is that good enough for the No 2 overall pick? I have major doubts that he can be the bell cow and carry the ball 25 times a game. I think I heard someone say that he only had 2 games with 20+ carries last year. I'm also very skeptical that he can be an elite between-the-tackles runner.
    He's 235 pounds, and he was running behind a line that was pushing around its opponent most of the time. There's a much better chance he'll be the next Ron Dayne than Jim Brown. Terrible pick. Could have gotten a guy just as good anywhere in the 2nd round. I know I don't need to convince you, but here is why you don't pick running backs in the first round:


    "In any study of the NFL draft, you expect to reach two conclusions if teams are successfully identifying players who will do well in the NFL and making smart picks as a result: You would see that players drafted in higher rounds are more likely to be successful, and that higher picks tend to get more opportunities to play. In most cases, a first-round pick will be given time to prove his worth, while a seventh-round pick is fortunate just to make the team.

    Yet when we broke down the numbers for running backs who were drafted between 2002 and 2017 and who actually played in the NFL, we did not find much difference in performance from round to round. No matter when backs were drafted, they posted pretty similar numbers in terms of yards per carry and rushing Defense-Adjusted Value Over Average (an efficiency metric explained here).

    One place we did see a difference by round is in yards from scrimmage per game — running backs drafted in earlier rounds performed better here, but that’s a bit misleading. These backs are not actually more efficient on a per-play basis, so their higher total yards from scrimmage may just reflect additional playing time. In fact, backs drafted in every round averaged something close to 4.20 yards per carry, and efficiency peaked at 4.33, among backs taken in the third round. Jamaal Charles was a third-round pick in 2008 and his average of 5.39 yards per attempt is the highest in NFL history (minimum 1,000 rushes). Third-round picks Kareem Hunt, who led the NFL in rushing yards in 2017, and Offensive Rookie of the Year Alvin Kamara were far more efficient than first-rounder Leonard Fournette last year."
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-be-a-mistake/

  20. #295
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I think Barkley is going to have a very good, if not great NFL career. I'm just not sure if he was the right pick for the Giants at #2.
    I think you gotta go with BPA. They clearly sent a message that they weren't drafting Eli's successor unless they were all in on Mayfield (which I doubt).

    And as Yves mentioned, he should pay off immediately. I'm glad things are changing in which a runner could be valued #2 overall. This follows the acquisition of Zeke and Fournette over the last few years. Not to trivialize the importance of other positions, but the thought of drafting an OT in #5 always puzzled me in comparison.


    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    I've been following Pro Football since 1971. I've never seen hype by media and fans like there was for Saquon Barkley this year. Not even the great HoF back Reggie Bush had this level of hype.
    Ehhh. I think there a tendency for pundits and fans alike to over-hype players. It happens every year. If I was to compare Barkley on the hype scale, for recent years, it would be slightly above Ezekiel Elliott, but way below the likes of Reggie Bush and Andrew Luck.

    Or let's put it another way, even though Barkley was considered the best offensive player in the draft with the possible exception of Nelson, most pundits didn't have him at #1 overall. Even 1 year ago it was pretty widely considered that Myles Garrett would and should be #1.
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  21. #296
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Not to mention that some of the more successful teams recently haven't put much capital into a single running back.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  22. #297
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    If I was to compare Barkley on the hype scale, for recent years, it would be slightly above Ezekiel Elliott, but way below the likes of Reggie Bush and Andrew Luck.

    Or let's put it another way, even though Barkley was considered the best offensive player in the draft with the possible exception of Nelson, most pundits didn't have him at #1 overall. Even 1 year ago it was pretty widely considered that Myles Garrett would and should be #1.
    I make around $28/hr to listen to Sports Talk radio 4 days a week for around 6-8 hours. 2 different stations. The national guests were agog over this guy. (As were Browns fans.) The hype for Barkley was way beyond Bush and Luck. Or anybody else, for that matter.

    Edit: I don't say that to invalidate your experience, but rather to point out that my view of it is based on a high volume of exposure to the subject.
    Last edited by moecurlythanu; 04-27-2018 at 12:24 PM.
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  23. #298
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Jason Witten to reportedly retire and join Monday Night Football.

    Thanks for the memories. He's my favorite modern Cowboys player.
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  24. #299
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    We were thrilled to lose the Analytics guy and get a real Football guy making the decisions...The fucking air is out of the balloon now.
    Chip Kelly got Howie Roseman demoted because he's not a "football guy." Howie is a self-described analytics guy.


    Just sayin'.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  25. #300
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Jason Witten to reportedly retire and join Monday Night Football.

    Thanks for the memories. He's my favorite modern Cowboys player.
    So Dak loses Dez and Witten? Good luck.

    I'm reading where the Cowboys were apparently blind-sided by this.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

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