Supersister - Spiral Staircase

[Zappathustra]

The other day on Facebook, a friend brought up an 80's interview of Edward Ka-Spel (Legendary Pink Dots) where he was asked of the 3 greatest rock albums according to him. The answer was: Brainticket "Cottonwood Hill", Magma "Mekanik..." and Spiral Staircase. I wasn't aware of this one, and listening to it I was kind of baffled, not much of a continuity with the previous - brilliant - Supersister records, but I really like what I am hearing, as a first impression. But what is the verdict of the impeccable PE people? (I browsed previous Supersister threads and not much was mentioned about it...a hidden masterpiece or an embarrassing issue?)

[Prehensile Pencil]

This has always been my fave of the studio stuff. Even the silly parts worked, to my ears. I can remember, though, how fans of PF Nancy and Pudding &G etc. were somewhat doubtful........ But, Iskander did nothing for me, so this was even more a godsend.


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[Scrotum Scissor]

The other day on Facebook, a friend brought up an 80's interview of Edward Ka-Spel (Legendary Pink Dots) where he was asked of the 3 greatest rock albums according to him. The answer was: Brainticket "Cottonwood Hill", Magma "Mekanik..." and Spiral Staircase. I wasn't aware of this one, and listening to it I was kind of baffled, not much of a continuity with the previous - brilliant - Supersister records, but I really like what I am hearing, as a first impression.

First: those are three radically great titles to answer from Ka-Spel's mouth, not least because they serve as illumination to how times have changed; back in the late 90s he would mostly point to early Floyd, krautrock of various sorts and the odd pseudo-obscurity like Groep 1850. This was about as far as the times allowed before an interview-subject would appear hopelessly out of order. But the present day allows for him to love and promote the seriously zaney "out"-stuff! Well, I guess Cottonwoodhill was always kinda hipster material...

Second: I don't think Spiral Staircase was conceived as a bonafide SSister album, but rather as an elaborate idea by Sascha van Geest (their fluteplayer), who hadn't really composed much for the band at that point. So it's constructed as a kind of hearplay for (more or less) grownup kids, which I suppose is one of the reasons why many listeners remain in the grey as to the indeed expert performance involved. It's really, really clever and bizarre in places, but this is one of those listening journeys you'll have to take in in full - processing just the casual song won't do.

Of course, SSister had already dealed in absurdities with the Pudding ballet, which apparently embraced mock-choreography which nevertheless was highly challenging to stage.

[rcarlberg]

...a hidden masterpiece or an embarrassing issue?

Somewhere in the middle? A little of both? The SS completist will have to have it of course (and is there any other kind of SS listener?)

[Scrotum Scissor]

is there any other kind of SS listener?

I''m the only true SS in here!

[Mister Triscuits]

I''m the only true SS in here!

I'm confused--are you a true Super Sister or a true Spiral Staircase?

I broke out Spiral Staircase a few weeks ago and I concluded that it's incredibly great.

[Sputnik]

Not a fan of this. If this weren't part of the 2/1 with Iskander, I wouldn't own it. More power to those who like it, but it's not an album I enjoy listening to.

Bill

[Kcrimso]

I have not really warmed to this one ever. Iskander I however love!

[spacefreak]

By listening to their early works (before the huge Floyd fixation kicked in) I can understand why Spiral Staircase is a big influence for Legendary Pink Dots. And do not forget the influence this particular album had on Nurse With Wound collage experiments (by the way it is referenced by Steven Stapleton as Supersister's most beloved album). For me it doesn't reach the heights of their first three albums but it is way better (and more inventive) than Iskander.

[Scrotum Scissor]

^ I like (certain parts of) Iskander, but it wasn't really "them"; the professional, perfectionist 'jazz-rock' MO didn't suit the farce-like anarchic play om formulas which so strongly marked their earlier work. As such, SS is arguably more of a fitting studio swansong for SS than Iskander. Although the latter did have Mariano.

[Sputnik]

^ I like (certain parts of) Iskander, but it wasn't really "them"; the professional, perfectionist 'jazz-rock' MO didn't suit the farce-like anarchic play om formulas which so strongly marked their earlier work.

I agree with this. I like Iskander, but it's really not "them." I'm not clear what happened that made them turn in this direction, and turn away from the elements that made them so unique.

Bill

[Scrotum Scissor]

I like Iskander, but it's really not "them." I'm not clear what happened that made them turn in this direction, and turn away from the elements that made them so unique.

Well, their drummer left and so did Sascha van Geest, the latter initially replaced by none other than Elton Dean and then by Charlie Mariano. Presumably they were either "let go" by Stips as a trait to enable a new sound for the band, or more likely they themselves decided to leave on hearing Stips' ideas for such a new formula. I feel a bit bad about putting Iskander down, 'cause there are some pretty impressive and encaptivating moments and motions going on, but the overt "seriousness" of it all somehow gives away the motives underneath. I'd liken it to Wigwam's turn with the Being album, but in the latter's case there was the Fairyport intermediary to see how the transition wouldn't seem so abrupt. Ironically, or rather quite tellingly, the spoofness would return tenfold when van Geest came back into the fold.

[spacefreak]

^ I like (certain parts of) Iskander, but it wasn't really "them"

Exactly!

[Progbear]

I heard somewhere that Spiral Staircase (which is credited to Sweet Okay Supersister) was based on a conceptual/multimedia piece conceived by Sacha van Geest before Present From Nancy. I’m glad it exists but I must admit, I get the least amount of mileage out of this compared to any other Supersister album. The more experimental, avant-garde sections are OK/interesting, but as with Frank Zappa, it falls apart when they try to be “funny.” Did the world need to be exposed to a racist joke told in sped-up Chipmunk voices? No. No, it did not.

I agree with this. I like Iskander, but it's really not "them." I'm not clear what happened that made them turn in this direction, and turn away from the elements that made them so unique.

I get what you’re saying—Iskander is not really a Supersister album, they just used the name because it would have shifted more units than crediting it what it was, an R. J. Stips solo project—but I think that Iskander really is something unique, just in a different direction from the Supersister LPs that preceded it. While I suppose it is in a more “conventional” jazz-rock direction than other Supersister discs, it doesn’t sound like any jazz-fusion album I’ve ever heard before. And I have to say, Charlie Mariano’s playing on this is just exquisite, some of my favorite playing of his ever.

[Sputnik]

I get what you’re saying—Iskander is not really a Supersister album, they just used the name because it would have shifted more units than crediting it what it was, an R. J. Stips solo project—but I think that Iskander really is something unique, just in a different direction from the Supersister LPs that preceded it. While I suppose it is in a more “conventional” jazz-rock direction than other Supersister discs, it doesn’t sound like any jazz-fusion album I’ve ever heard before. And I have to say, Charlie Mariano’s playing on this is just exquisite, some of my favorite playing of his ever.

Well said! As I way, I really like the album, and I think your evaluation is great. I'll tee it up for a fresh spin now. It doesn't sound like classic Supersister to me, but I've always liked Iskander. Much more than Spiral Staircase, that's for bloody sure.

Bill

[Steve F.]

I love Iskander; it’s different, certainly, but I think it’s great. Calling it a Stips album might have been more truthful, but by any name it’s excellent AND Mariano kills it, as Progbear sez.

[rcarlberg]

I heard somewhere that Spiral Staircase (which is credited to Sweet Okay Supersister)

I thought I read somewhere that Stips was going to form a new band, to be called "Sweet Okay" and including some members of Sweet d'Buster, but most of Supersister ended up playing on the record so he compromised and called it Sweet Okay Supersister, Maybe I read this in a Pete Frame poster?

[Trane]

I have not really warmed to this one ever. Iskander I however love!

TBH, both of them are not all that much my cup of tea (I've not owned either for decades)...

I basically stopped at Pudding, though when the new version (Espteric, I believe) came out, I only acquired Present & Bidder.

^ I like (certain parts of) Iskander, but it wasn't really "them"; the professional, perfectionist 'jazz-rock' MO didn't suit the farce-like anarchic play om formulas which so strongly marked their earlier work. As such, SS is arguably more of a fitting studio swansong for SS than Iskander. Although the latter did have Mariano.

Yup, I'd agree that I rather like both Iskander and Staircase, but neither was true SS (apparently not just IMHO)... Iskander lacks the "Canterburian buffoonery" of their first three albums and Staircase might actually have too much of it, though I'd say it's more Zappa-esque or RIO than Canterbury.

[Zappathustra]

But the present day allows for him to love and promote the seriously zaney "out"-stuff!

Maybe I misunderstand, but these picks come from an 80's interview

[Scrotum Scissor]

^ So it's essentially the other way round, then - his (their) output from the early 90s onwards was so markedly influenced by UK psychedelic whimsy of '66-69 period that he 'moderated' his References (he'd speak a lot of the Floyd, I.S.B. and more). It doesn't really matter, as SSister, Magma and Brainticket were practically unheard of in the 80s but were all subject to some level of (relative) "revival" in the following decade.

[Zappathustra]

I listened again, I think it is a really daring record for the age. I love the goofy, experimental atmosphere, the playing is impeccable, and lots of the musical ideas are excellent. But I don't think they maintain the same level all through it, it doesn't seem like a complete effort to me. Still an important chapter in the history of the band and of rock music me thinks.

On the other hand, I too am cold towards Iskander, for the exact reasons that others have stated. Despite Mariano.

[rockcup]

The site of RJ Stips.

http://www.stips.net/