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Thread: Wrecking Crew Documentary

  1. #26
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Well, has as been said, everyone was using studio musicians back then. I think in the case of The Beach Boys, the early albums are actually them playing, it was only when Brian started getting artistic, like say around Pet Sounds or maybe slightly earlier, that they started resorting to the doppelgangers in the studio. I believe I've read that Carl Wilson, at least, still ended up playing on the records.

    I always reckoned, though, that since Brian couldn't tour (after his first nervous breakdown), he was in the studio recording the backing tracks for the next album, while the others were on tour, and when they'd get back to LA, they'd overdub their vocals. In that instance, it kinda makes sense. Also, as Glen Campbell notes in the documentary, the other four, at least, argued non-stop when he was on tour with them, so he reckoned that might have been part of why Brian started using studio musicians (ie so he wouldn't have to argue with them in the studio...at least, not until it was time to do the vocals, anyway).





    Well, there were a lot of bands that used studio musicians. Aerosmith used Dick Wagner and Steve Hunter on a couple tracks on their second album (including, very famously, their version of Train Kept A'rollin'). There's quite a few Kiss songs that have studio musicians taking the place of at least one band member . Steve Lukather has a list on his website of all the records he's played on, one of which, actually is Voices by Cheap Trick (and he actually admits he was never sure why he was called in for that session, because of how good a guitarist Rick Nielsen is).

    Awhile back, we got into a discussion about a series of one hit wonder bands, something like five or six of them, based out of England, all of them turned out to be the same bunch of musicians, same producer, even the same singer. I believe Beach Baby by First Class (which I swear I always thought were Americans) was one example. The singer apparently took to billing himself as a "five time one hit wonder" or something like that.

    In the case of The Tubes, I recall reading years ago that it's Lukather playing the solo on She's A Beauty. I somehow ended mentioning this to someone who is involved in the LA recording scene, and he said "Yeah, that whole record is basically Toto pretending to be The Tubes". I mentioned that to someone else, who said "Oh, well, that would explain why it sounds like Jeff Porcaro's drumming", though I've also read Prairie Prince was the one member of the band (besides Fee Waybill, obviously) who wasn't replaced by a deputy on that album. I've read the same thing happened with Chicago around the same time: on some of those songs, Peter Cetera is the only band member on the track.

    One assumes it hinged on record company executives who were convinced that you needed that "LA sound" to get "maximum radio penetration" (or MTV airplay, or whatever), and the best way to get that sound was to use the A Team on your records.
    I recall the Beach Boys movie, where the dad was given his own "mixer, so he felt like he was a part of the recording process, and he was giving the stink eye to the bass player, because he wasn't playing the part right. That may have actually happened, but along came the wrecking crew and sorted it all out after all! Funny, the story tells a rather sad story about the Father wanting to control the sessions, which turned out to be meaningless after all.

  2. #27
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Steve Lukather has a list on his website of all the records he's played on, one of which, actually is Voices by Cheap Trick (and he actually admits he was never sure why he was called in for that session, because of how good a guitarist Rick Nielsen is).
    Lukather has also alluded to countless other sessions that he can't even talk about, where he's actually playing guitar but isn't credited, for fear of "exposing the illusion" of the actual band member playing on the album. I believe he was referring to some of the hard rock/metal stuff in the late 80s.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    I recall the Beach Boys movie, where the dad was given his own "mixer, so he felt like he was a part of the recording process, and he was giving the stink eye to the bass player, because he wasn't playing the part right. That may have actually happened, but along came the wrecking crew and sorted it all out after all! Funny, the story tells a rather sad story about the Father wanting to control the sessions, which turned out to be meaningless after all.
    Are you talking about that made-for-TV movie that was done by, I think, ABC back in the mid 90's? The one where, when they get to the late 60's, suddenly all the actors are wearing what are obviously fake beards? As I recall, the bit hinges on Murray telling the engineer how to mix the song, and then Dennis, I think (who is depicted as an "agitator", of sorts, in the picture) announces that "Oh, that mixing board isn't even hooked up, Brian does the mixes after you're gone, Dad!" or something like that.

    But Murray Wilson was an abusive control freak, no doubt about that. He's known to have abused his sons (apparently, the reason Brian never did stereo mixes was because he was deaf in one ear, due to an incident where his father hit him in the back of the head). And then later, he sold the publishing rights to the songs for a pittance. He basically screwed Brian (and anyone who else who might have received publishing monies from their original material) out of a fortune, just because he was an asshole with no business savvy.

    And he seemed to think that because he had been a slightly successful professional musician back in the 50's (singing pop music), he knew better than anyone else what a rock n roll record a decade later should sound like. I think it comes down to the fact that he was a control freak who jealous of his son, who was a bonafide genius.

    But having said that, there's lots of stories of Brian doing retake after retake, driving everyone else crazy because "it's not right". I forget who it was who said they started calling Brian "Dog Ears", because he was apparently hearing stuff nobody else was hearing.

    There's a great recording of Brian and Murray arguing in the studio, where Murray's yelling at Brian about how "Oh, we used to record half a dozen songs in half the time it takes you to do just one!" or whatever.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Lukather has also alluded to countless other sessions that he can't even talk about, where he's actually playing guitar but isn't credited, for fear of "exposing the illusion" of the actual band member playing on the album. I believe he was referring to some of the hard rock/metal stuff in the late 80s.
    If I remember correctly, he's not credited on the Cheap Trick record either, but yeah, I could see the likelihood that some of those bands might have had any studio musicians who they may have utilized sign confidentiality agreements.

    There were a lot of records, even in the 70's and 80's, where the studio musicians went uncredited, probably for similar "illusion" purposes. Sometimes it wasn't obvious, but other times, you'd hear stuff that had never been on that band's records and the attentive listener is thinking, "OK, there's no way Ace Frehley has suddenly turned into a post-Blackmore shredder" or whatever.

  5. #30
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    For whomever is interested: the Doc will air on PBS during their current fundraiser. Here in the Phoenix Market, it's on tonight and Thursday night. But as they say, check your local listings for day and time.
    Last edited by progmatist; 06-04-2018 at 01:59 PM.
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  6. #31
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    I caught part of this documentary last night. Tommy Tedesco was a brilliant guitarist. Wow.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post

    There were a lot of records, even in the 70's and 80's, where the studio musicians went uncredited, probably for similar "illusion" purposes. Sometimes it wasn't obvious, but other times, you'd hear stuff that had never been on that band's records and the attentive listener is thinking, "OK, there's no way Ace Frehley has suddenly turned into a post-Blackmore shredder" or whatever.
    Dick Wagner talks about being asked to cover Glen Buxtons parts during the Schools Out Billion Dollar Baby era. I don't think he was credited in either album. Back to the documentaries topic I recently purchased a nice PBS series titled Soundbreaking stories from the cutting edge of recording music. 3 disc package. I've only got thru 1/2 of the first disc.. Great stuff for those interested

  8. #33
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    Dick Wagner talks about being asked to cover Glen Buxtons parts during the Schools Out Billion Dollar Baby era. I don't think he was credited in either album.
    This is the way studio musicians work. They’re hired for a fee up front, they play and get paid, then go home. They don’t get points on the album, they don’t get credited, if it becomes a hit they don’t profit.

    Bands who do play on their own albums don’t make any money unless the album sells well.

    This is why some of the best technicians in the industry either supplement their income or concentrate exclusively on studio work or film soundtracks. When you’ve got a family to feed it’s reliable money.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    Dick Wagner talks about being asked to cover Glen Buxtons parts during the Schools Out Billion Dollar Baby era. I don't think he was credited in either album. Back to the documentaries topic I recently purchased a nice PBS series titled Soundbreaking stories from the cutting edge of recording music. 3 disc package. I've only got thru 1/2 of the first disc.. Great stuff for those interested
    Wagner's Autobiography "Not Only Women Bleed" is a great read. He talks about playing uncredited on some of the later Alice Cooper Band albums. He also played uncredited on some well known Aerosmith albums from the 70's as well as others.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Wagner's Autobiography "Not Only Women Bleed" is a great read. He talks about playing uncredited on some of the later Alice Cooper Band albums. He also played uncredited on some well known Aerosmith albums from the 70's as well as others.
    Will have to check this out. As a fan of Wagner's band The Frost and the 60's Detroit rock scene this book sounds interesting.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by philsunset View Post
    Will have to check this out. As a fan of Wagner's band The Frost and the 60's Detroit rock scene this book sounds interesting.
    He spends a bit too much time detailing his many sexual conquests and comes across pretty egotistical, but other than that it is a good book, especially if you live in Michigan where he grew up.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Wagner's Autobiography "Not Only Women Bleed" is a great read. He talks about playing uncredited on some of the later Alice Cooper Band albums. He also played uncredited on some well known Aerosmith albums from the 70's as well as others.
    He played on one Aerosmith album, specifically Get Yer Wings. He's apparently on Same Old Song ANd Dance and Train Kept A'Rollin'. The latter also features Steve Hunter. Or at least that's what it says on Wikipedia, and that's what I've heard regularly over the years as the songs they played on, so far as Aerosmith were concerned. I imagine they could theoretically have played on other things, but I would think we would know by now, if they were on other Aerosmith songs.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    I recently purchased a nice PBS series titled Soundbreaking stories from the cutting edge of recording music. 3 disc package. I've only got thru 1/2 of the first disc.. Great stuff for those interested
    Soundbreaking aired here a few months ago. Good program. Lots of interesting stories there.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    He played on one Aerosmith album, specifically Get Yer Wings. He's apparently on Same Old Song ANd Dance and Train Kept A'Rollin'. The latter also features Steve Hunter. Or at least that's what it says on Wikipedia, and that's what I've heard regularly over the years as the songs they played on, so far as Aerosmith were concerned. I imagine they could theoretically have played on other things, but I would think we would know by now, if they were on other Aerosmith songs.
    Yes, "Get Your Wings" is one of the albums he played on. I could swear i remember that he played on others, but I could be wrong on that. It has been a few years since I read the book.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Yes, "Get Your Wings" is one of the albums he played on. I could swear i remember that he played on others, but I could be wrong on that. It has been a few years since I read the book.
    I remember some guy on here, well, actually on the old PE, I forget his name, anyway, he seemed to be a Wagner groupie, and was perpetually overstating his session credits. He insisted that there was "no way" Joe Perry could have played the ride out solo on Walk This Way, and also insisted that Wagner played on "most" of the Kiss records.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I remember some guy on here, well, actually on the old PE, I forget his name, anyway, he seemed to be a Wagner groupie, and was perpetually overstating his session credits. He insisted that there was "no way" Joe Perry could have played the ride out solo on Walk This Way, and also insisted that Wagner played on "most" of the Kiss records.
    If I remember right according to the book Wagner did play on "Destroyer" and "Revenge".

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    If I remember right according to the book Wagner did play on "Destroyer" and "Revenge".
    Yes, this is correct. Two Kiss albums is not "most". And, if I remember correctly he only plays on a couple songs on each one. This jackass was making it sound like he was Ace Frehley's full time stunt double or something, which he wasn't.

    Having said that, there are a few different Kiss records that did use session guys. On Alive II, Peter Criss didn't play on any of the songs on side four, and Ace is only on Rocket Ride (which is practically an Ace solo songs, with him writing, singing lead, and playing bass and all guitars). On Unmasked, Peter played on only one song, Dirty Livin', and didn't play at all on Unmasked.

    And on Creatures Of The Night, even though he's pictured on the front cover and appears in the I Love It Loud video, Ace didn't play a single note on that record, either. One of the guitarists who did play on that album is Steve Farris, who was later in Mr. Mister, alongside future King Crimson drummer Pat Masteletto.

    And there were a small gaggle of new songs that appeared on the import compilation Killers.

    But the majority of the guitar work on every Kiss record during the classic years is played by a combination of either Ace, Paul, and/or Gene (yeah, sometimes Gene played guitar on his own songs), and it's Peter playing drums on most of that stuff too. And for the record, Ace often times played bass on his own songs, like Getaway, Shock Me, 2000 Man, and Torpedo Girl (yes, 2000 Man is a Stones cover, but the purposes of it's appearance on Dynasty, it's an "Ace song"). And sometimes Paul would play bass on his songs too (like on Love Gun itself).

  18. #43
    Just watched "Hired Gun" on Netflix..some interesting insights from studio musicians circa 80's-current days..

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    Just watched "Hired Gun" on Netflix..some interesting insights from studio musicians circa 80's-current days..
    That is another good one.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    That is another good one.
    I guess in truth it's always been this way but some of the stories shared from the session musicians puts things into perspective.. the quote about how small the corral truly is

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I also like Gary Lewis talking about whichever song, I forget the title, that had the really cool guitar licks that Tommy played, and how no guitarist he's ever worked with has been able to play Tommy's solo exactly as it is on the record.
    I hear that about a lot of session musicians. I remember someone, probably Jeff Rich, talking about touring with Judie Tzuke, and trying to replicate all of Simon Phillips’ drum fills from “Sukarita” live, and never quite recapturing the magic.

    As for Gary Lewis, go back and listen to “Count Me In.” It’s a marvel of 60s pop production. All the keyboards, including that cascading celeste hook, were played by Leon Russell.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    But you gotta feel sorry for a lot of those guys. A lot of them played really cool stuff on some of those records, and nobody knew it was them. There was a bit in the documentary, I think they're talking about that Gary Lewis song again, where it's mentioned that Gary Lewis' guitarist at the time said he felt bad for Tommy, because people would compliment him for something that Tommy actually played on the record.
    Speaking of Gary Lewis, and of “unsung” heroes, a shout-out for session vocalist Ron Hicklin, who was brought in to “sweeten” Gary’s rather weak voice. On a lot of those (mostly forgotten today) hits, Hicklin is practically a co-lead vocalist. Incidentally, it was mom Patti Palmer who was pushing her son into the spotlight, and not Jerry as is commonly believed.
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  22. #47
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    I remember having 45s of Gary Lewis and The Playboys. I liked all those singles.

  23. #48
    What’s the name of the documentary ?


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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    What’s the name of the documentary ?


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    It is called "The Wrecking Crew". I saw it on Netflix.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    Just watched "Hired Gun" on Netflix..some interesting insights from studio musicians circa 80's-current days..
    This was really good, lots of things I never knew, I had to watch more than once to get it all and I'll probably watch it again. Highly recommended!

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