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  1. #1

    Releasing Your Very Own Prog

    Anyone not currently in a prog group ever feel the temptation to release some prog of your own? I've just finished recording my first "epic" and am thinking of taking the plunge to expand the project to a full album. Anyone had any experience with this?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by The Elf King View Post
    Anyone not currently in a prog group ever feel the temptation to release some prog of your own? I've just finished recording my first "epic" and am thinking of taking the plunge to expand the project to a full album. Anyone had any experience with this?
    YES...actually. it is fun. it took off..and now working on the follow up.

    best of luck! let me know if you would like to know more...

    patric

  3. #3
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    I thought I had already commented here. I guess not.

    Releasing music, if you are not prepared to back it up by playing out is usually a disappointing experience. Of course if you have just written the next Close to the Edge you may find it an amazing journey. But somehow I think even a Close to the Edge wouldn't even be well received in today's market. - I guess by that I mean todays non-market. Some people find it very rewarding to release new music - for sale. Most find themselves in an echo chamber of silence. It is what it is.

    I tried in 2005. Thought I'd written a great piece of music. Wrong. It was almost average. Not easy to swallow, but the truth. If you want my honest opinion, I do not think its worth the effort. If you want the hyped version, it Yeah man! come on board! you're gonna do great!

    People like you who consider releasing new prog are a dying breed. If you feel "called" to do it, If you feel you must, you probably should, because you'll never know until you've tried. I just dont have anything particularly encouraging to say. Whatever you do, start with a limited pressing that you can afford to pay for, and be prepared to hang on to it for years. Dont skip a vacation or sacrifice your kids college money to put anything out. When you pay for that release, consider the investment gone. Its not likely you'll get it back. If you do, great! I for one, will buy it if you put it out and I hear about it. I love underdogs.

    If you are going to support it by playing shows, and you have a way to get booked, I think that's a game changer. You can sell your CD - or whatever at the shows that is how its done. Basements of ex-musicians are filled with boxes of disks they will never have a use for. If you do better than that, then wow, let me be the first to congratulate you.

    Just my 4 cents worth.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    I thought I had already commented here. I guess not.

    Releasing music, if you are not prepared to back it up by playing out is usually a disappointing experience. Of course if you have just written the next Close to the Edge you may find it an amazing journey. But somehow I think even a Close to the Edge wouldn't even be well received in today's market. - I guess by that I mean todays non-market. Some people find it very rewarding to release new music - for sale. Most find themselves in an echo chamber of silence. It is what it is.

    I tried in 2005. Thought I'd written a great piece of music. Wrong. It was almost average. Not easy to swallow, but the truth. If you want my honest opinion, I do not think its worth the effort. If you want the hyped version, it Yeah man! come on board! you're gonna do great!

    People like you who consider releasing new prog are a dying breed. If you feel "called" to do it, If you feel you must, you probably should, because you'll never know until you've tried. I just dont have anything particularly encouraging to say. Whatever you do, start with a limited pressing that you can afford to pay for, and be prepared to hang on to it for years. Dont skip a vacation or sacrifice your kids college money to put anything out. When you pay for that release, consider the investment gone. Its not likely you'll get it back. If you do, great! I for one, will buy it if you put it out and I hear about it. I love underdogs.

    If you are going to support it by playing shows, and you have a way to get booked, I think that's a game changer. You can sell your CD - or whatever at the shows that is how its done. Basements of ex-musicians are filled with boxes of disks they will never have a use for. If you do better than that, then wow, let me be the first to congratulate you.

    Just my 4 cents worth.
    I have never toured, but released 4 CD's now (glass master ) - recording it all myself in my home studio ( basement? ) I have a small but loyal following. I have not made a lot of money but I have never lost money either, my profits go toward better gear. I enjoy it, I'm retired, I have the time to create - without rushing. I will continue to do this as long as I can.
    Coming September 1st - "Dean Watson Revisited"!

  5. #5
    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Watson View Post
    I have never toured, but released 4 CD's now (glass master ) - recording it all myself in my home studio ( basement? ) I have a small but loyal following. I have not made a lot of money but I have never lost money either, my profits go toward better gear. I enjoy it, I'm retired, I have the time to create - without rushing. I will continue to do this as long as I can.
    I count myself in your small but loyal following! Happy to hear you're keeping at it, your stuff is some of my favorites released in the last 10 or so years. Your model is a good one, though it's surely harder now than in the "CD era." But it provides a good example for people interested in releasing their own stuff. Keep expenses and expectations low, and enjoy the knowledge your music is appreciated by a few folks. Not much more to it than that.

    Bill

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Watson View Post
    I have never toured, but released 4 CD's now (glass master ) - recording it all myself in my home studio ( basement? ) I have a small but loyal following. I have not made a lot of money but I have never lost money either, my profits go toward better gear. I enjoy it, I'm retired, I have the time to create - without rushing. I will continue to do this as long as I can.
    What he said

    Except for the retired part - a year off still. Wife is, though. You lucky duckies! Btw Dean. Just so good - Song for A Day, people!

    As for "releasing" one's music: In this day and age, if you want to get it out for folks to hear, you can do it. Don't over think it. This is the 21st century. Hell, i've had music get out that i didn't want out. A not uncommon problem, btw. But it's all good. And certainly don't worry about being "prog" or whatever. It all gets out eventually, if you're not careful. Possibly even if it isn't very good...

    If you're writing and making sounds which fill your heart with joy, do that. In whatever ways possible. If you're writing an epic, great. Nothing wrong with 20 minutes of joy at once. Just do that first. If you can't afford to put it out, keep making those sounds with others in the room with you. Just do it, as they say. We can use all the joy we can get in these times, eh?

    Of course, in this modern age, we independent artists find outselves with incredible tools for making music and reproducing it at a pretty high quality level. That said, it doesn't always have to be glossy. Cassettes and other media are still available for distributing your work. Digital media is ubiquitous though. It's easier than ever to access and distribute, if you have a modern computer system. A novice can produce nice things and easily get it to the universe. Putting it out is kind of the least of your worries initially.

    Real quality production work takes experience and time. You do want it to be as professional as it can be. Especially if the intent is to sell it. So... quality writing, arranging, rehearsals, pre-production.... all of the same effort would ideally be put in as with any professional studio production. It all shows later. Making the quality music is job one.

    Distribution, sales, the economics of glass mastering vs CD-Rs etc is its own ball of wax. Marketing decisions need to be made and other business. As an independent artist, going for proper commerce can be a big and often untenable mess. You have figure out for yourself what constitutes "success" for you or your project. It's different for everyone. But it always starts with the work itself. And then, the development of skills to record it well. And then another set of skills to market it, if that's part of the plan. Artists are notoriously bad at that part, of course. Making money from it, in modern times, is always impressive and encouraging.

    I just thank the stars everyday that i can stil make music and produce my recordings. The process is always a journey which fills my heart (and our house, i hope) with joy. Keeps me smiling and willing to go forward spiritually. For many here, i'm sure it's the same. For me, it's all about just music making and trying to capture something special on tape. It's one of the few things in the world which truly lights me up.

    As for Precognitive distribution, we use it all. We sometimes glass master special releases. It's never been particularly economical for us. Firstly, our sales model has always, by intention, been a non-commercial one. But also demand is very low in our case. We've been at this for 40+ years. It was low in the vinyl days and it's low now. I have very many copies of releases in storage in various media (vinyl, cassette, glass mastered CD, et al).

    Back in the way back, minimum order numbers were high - 1000+ - and they didn't do short run CDs like they do now. I'm lucky to have a nice job. So, i can do my own short runs, since i do have a mastering deck in the studio. And, if i wanted, and felt it was worthy of it, i could pay to have a place produce 1000+ glass master copies of something. Possibly sell less than half of that over a few years. Give them away as halloween treats or as gifts. They do make excellent coasters, after all

    Seriously, though. We still service out for printing or glass mastering sometimes, as we did most recently for an anniversary release ("Life Stories"). But we never expect to make it back. Most often, over time, we break even. Knowing that people are enjoying them is worthwhile. Also, we have the nasty habit of including extra freebies with our orders. So having extra copies of albums around can be a blessing or a curse for our customers

    Bravo to Mister Triscuits and others on releasing with package concepts, artwork and so on. This is how we like to do it also, if we're bothering to pay for glass mastering. Go for gold. Nothing nicer, imho, than opening up a fresh, nice CD or vinyl package with artwork, maybe a booklet or a box or whatever. Kate Bush, Ani DiFranco, Peter Gabriel, et al always have really fun and lovely packaging. Our friend Matt Baber (Sanguine/Nuns) and company always produce delicious litle nuggets for opening and devouring. It's wonderful when people go through that effort. It really does make a release special.

    As a person in my mid-60s, our having a "release schedule" is a means of passing the time until death comes upon me. I can feel like i'm doing something useful with my life. I've created something we can listen to whilst reading or during Scrabble time with family. When i'm dead and gone; a time which on certain days i wish would come sooner than later, but i digress... the few hundred people who have my recordings will have something they can listen to during Scrabble time with their own families. Maybe it makes them tap their feet or perhaps shed a tear or maybe even hurl into a bucket. All of those activities can be quite refreshing. If my art can bring refreshment to this or future generations, it'll be worth all of the hard work and money.

    Perhaps they'll say - "Oh yeah, i like this one"

    Cheers! Keep making your music,

    Kim
    Last edited by Polypet; 11-23-2018 at 02:10 PM.
    And the code is a play, a play is a song, a song is a film, a film is a dance...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post

    If you are going to support it by playing shows, and you have a way to get booked, I think that's a game changer. You can sell your CD - or whatever at the shows that is how its done. Basements of ex-musicians are filled with boxes of disks they will never have a use for. If you do better than that, then wow, let me be the first to congratulate you.

    Just my 4 cents worth.
    From 1997 to 2007 and beyond I had boxes of hundreds of CDs I made in 1996 gathering dust...until I reformed my band, put out another album and then my back catalog of hundreds of CDs-you guessed it-sold out! Reforming a prog band in 2006 as we did is a whole lot different from forming a new one in 2018. Looks really crowded and perhaps a bit too cliquey in some places but if it's really good, hey you never know.

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    Make the album if that is your passion I say. I may do the same at some point but it will be a personal work with no expectation of recognition. As long as I am proud of it that's how I would measure success. Cheers!

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    I've been recording music in my home studio, built around a Tascam DP-24SD. I was thinking of releasing some of my songs as downloads through Bandcamp. I have no expectations of making significant money or reaching a large audience. I record music because I enjoy it. And reaching even a few people (other than my friends) would be nice.

  10. #10
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soc Prof View Post
    I've been recording music in my home studio, built around a Tascam DP-24SD. I was thinking of releasing some of my songs as downloads through Bandcamp. I have no expectations of making significant money or reaching a large audience. I record music because I enjoy it. And reaching even a few people (other than my friends) would be nice.
    I agree with your sentiments. Composing music is the greatest Video game/past time ever. When it comes to releasing it? - That's an entirely different game and involves - at least for me, a lot of disappointment. Especially in the current environment (circa 2005) In 2001 I re-released a couple albums of my 80's band that had only been available on Vinyl - and it was like the proverial "selling pot to middle schoolers" (which I have never done! - for you FBI/DOJ blokes who are spying on me...)

    Anyway, I listened to the advice of people who had bought it, and decided to try a new "reunion" album - What a unique idea that no one has ever thought of before! So in 2005 I released a third album - All the other band members were smart enough to tell me they weren't interested in doing it, so I kind of "borrowed" our collective fame and did it solo. Well, one person of a 4 piece band is going to make music that's different isn't it? Anyway, Karma spanked me, and the thing just failed spectacularly. Then in 2008, a label said " let us give it a try..." well, that didnt turn out very good because I had to manufacture another 3500 units. (cha-ching!) all that fundage I had bilked from the previous releases - It wasn't a lot, but it was something - gone, and then some. Some very bad things seemed to be happening as a result of me being "hopeful"

    1. My CD was loaded on Pirate Bay and many free downloads ensued
    2. The label wound up going under after a few years - after I recieved one check for 168.00 - not blaming anyone but myself.
    3. I had to buy back the remaining 400 cd's at a dollar each, plus postage. Or the disks were jsut going in the trash (Irony?)

    Conclusion:
    4500 units - self manufactured
    + 168.00 in royalties
    + Bakruptcy of CSV distribution Europe
    + $0 in download royalties (Sold at LEAST 200+disks at label, but never a single download???)
    + buying back my own inventory
    ----------------------------------------
    BIG MISTAKE

    Lesson learned: If you want to dream, dream small. I loved producing original music! I have never stopped producing music. But "releasing" music IMO - is just not a happy experience. You get very little positive out of it. I think I have a handful of responses to my music and those are absolutely worth solid gold, but I've realized I may have received the same amount of satisfaction by just giving it away. I may have saved myself enough to take my Family to Disneyland.

    I feel like I owe some of you who are considering this - this lesson I have learned - My way of paying Karma back.

    BUT!!! You will NEVER know if you don't try... keep it simple. I don't think anyone "made" anything off my experience,
    I have no lingering hostility towards anyone or anything, though I do have to say I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE STEAL MUSIC and then say they feel no shame for it. There is a special place in hell waiting for you - Right there next to other thieves and child porn sex fraks.

    Whew... I need a xanex.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    I agree with your sentiments. Composing music is the greatest Video game/past time ever. When it comes to releasing it? - That's an entirely different game and involves - at least for me, a lot of disappointment. Especially in the current environment (circa 2005) In 2001 I re-released a couple albums of my 80's band that had only been available on Vinyl - and it was like the proverial "selling pot to middle schoolers" (which I have never done! - for you FBI/DOJ blokes who are spying on me...)

    Anyway, I listened to the advice of people who had bought it, and decided to try a new "reunion" album - What a unique idea that no one has ever thought of before! So in 2005 I released a third album - All the other band members were smart enough to tell me they weren't interested in doing it, so I kind of "borrowed" our collective fame and did it solo. Well, one person of a 4 piece band is going to make music that's different isn't it? Anyway, Karma spanked me, and the thing just failed spectacularly. Then in 2008, a label said " let us give it a try..." well, that didnt turn out very good because I had to manufacture another 3500 units. (cha-ching!) all that fundage I had bilked from the previous releases - It wasn't a lot, but it was something - gone, and then some. Some very bad things seemed to be happening as a result of me being "hopeful"

    1. My CD was loaded on Pirate Bay and many free downloads ensued
    2. The label wound up going under after a few years - after I recieved one check for 168.00 - not blaming anyone but myself.
    3. I had to buy back the remaining 400 cd's at a dollar each, plus postage. Or the disks were jsut going in the trash (Irony?)

    Conclusion:
    4500 units - self manufactured
    + 168.00 in royalties
    + Bakruptcy of CSV distribution Europe
    + $0 in download royalties (Sold at LEAST 200+disks at label, but never a single download???)
    + buying back my own inventory
    ----------------------------------------
    BIG MISTAKE

    Lesson learned: If you want to dream, dream small. I loved producing original music! I have never stopped producing music. But "releasing" music IMO - is just not a happy experience. You get very little positive out of it. I think I have a handful of responses to my music and those are absolutely worth solid gold, but I've realized I may have received the same amount of satisfaction by just giving it away. I may have saved myself enough to take my Family to Disneyland.

    I feel like I owe some of you who are considering this - this lesson I have learned - My way of paying Karma back.

    BUT!!! You will NEVER know if you don't try... keep it simple. I don't think anyone "made" anything off my experience,
    I have no lingering hostility towards anyone or anything, though I do have to say I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE STEAL MUSIC and then say they feel no shame for it. There is a special place in hell waiting for you - Right there next to other thieves and child porn sex fraks.

    Whew... I need a xanex.
    I guess my biggest question is...why 4500 units? Seems like a weird number not to mention WAY too many. We're (3RDegree) a somewhat "known" band and we've never made more than 1000 CDs with all but our first album. Interestingly as our popularity grows, the CDs popularity drops so we've been in this strange dance with CD sales where it seems like we're treading water but eventually I believe they will all be sold. That 2008 "comeback" album is the pesky one since our fan base was a lot smaller then so that's the one we have the most of!

    Elf King-I would just go for 100 "pro" CD-Rs at Diskmakers (or similar) as they "feel" like a real, replicated CD but don't put you in the hole more than a few hundred bucks. If you know you would sell at least 100 somewhat quickly, then I'd say go for 1000 replicated CDs.

  12. #12
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    I guess my biggest question is...why 4500 units? Seems like a weird number not to mention WAY too many. We're (3RDegree) a somewhat "known" band and we've never made more than 1000 CDs with all but our first album. Interestingly as our popularity grows, the CDs popularity drops so we've been in this strange dance with CD sales where it seems like we're treading water but eventually I believe they will all be sold. That 2008 "comeback" album is the pesky one since our fan base was a lot smaller then so that's the one we have the most of!

    .
    We appeared to have fairly strong following in Europe, though we had never played there. Our Vinyl records from the 70's were rare and very expensive on the internet (150.00+) I think that it was not the label (progrock) but CSV distributor who thought they could move a lot of units. I only manufactured 1000 originally when I self released in 2005, but Progrock had me add CSV and Progrock logos to the cover in 2008, and had me fully manufacture 3k and then another 500 just the disk for promo copies. What did I know? I just has stars in my eyes.

    I am playing a live show now, and I do three songs from the CD, so I've already started selling a few copies at shows. That seems to be the way to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soc Prof View Post
    I've been recording music in my home studio, built around a Tascam DP-24SD. I was thinking of releasing some of my songs as downloads through Bandcamp. I have no expectations of making significant money or reaching a large audience. I record music because I enjoy it. And reaching even a few people (other than my friends) would be nice.
    Okay, I finally made it happen. Anyone who is interested can download my new song "T. Rex Tea Party" for FREE:
    https://tonyandthetonechasers.bandcamp.com/releases

    I plan to start recording a second song later this week.

  14. #14
    Enjoyed both songs on your page. Well done.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Soc Prof View Post
    Okay, I finally made it happen. Anyone who is interested can download my new song "T. Rex Tea Party" for FREE:
    https://tonyandthetonechasers.bandcamp.com/releases

    I plan to start recording a second song later this week.
    Enjoyed both songs on your page - well done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry's Hand View Post
    Enjoyed both songs on your page - well done.
    Thanks! I appreciate it.

    I hope to get another song recorded during the holiday break. This one will be totally different--an acoustic guitar song rooted in Spanish folk and baroque musics. I'll announce it on the "What's On" page when it's uploaded.

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    You have to do it for your own enjoyment and don't expect any commercial success. You'll find tons of great music on Bandcamp that has sold 5 copies. Yes indeed, Close To The Edge if released today could be totally ignored or at least would only sell a max of a few thousand copies if backed by a record label. In recent times Steven Wilson is the only proggy artist who has found success and that is because he has strived for wider crossover appeal - and it took him the best part of 20 years to do it!

  18. #18
    All Things Must Pass spellbound's Avatar
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    If you love something, set it free, release it. If it doesn't come back, was it really prog?
    We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
    It won't be visible through the air
    And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973

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    Quote Originally Posted by spellbound View Post
    If you love something, set it free, release it. If it doesn't come back, was it really prog?
    Make it free too, if it's digital anyway. Especially if you listen for free.
    Last edited by spiderfeathers; 02-16-2018 at 02:28 PM. Reason: dbag

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    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Maybe it just is "progressing" away from you...

  21. #21
    I keep composing and put my music on internet. I'm not good in the promoting thing, and live playing isn't my thing as well. I have sheet-music available of my latest stuff, for anyone interested in playing it.

  22. #22
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    I've been trying to drum up some reviews of my latest album, with almost no success. Even the dedicated avant music websites tend not to respond. With the huge amount of music out there, it's really hard to get any attention at all these days.
    Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - an electronic music composition, on CD and vinyl
    https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
    http://www.waysidemusic.com/Music-Pr...MCD-spc-7.aspx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    I've been trying to drum up some reviews of my latest album, with almost no success. Even the dedicated avant music websites tend not to respond. With the huge amount of music out there, it's really hard to get any attention at all these days.
    Hey Mister Triscuits, your music sounds really good.

  24. #24
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve983 View Post
    Hey Mister Triscuits, your music sounds really good.
    Thank you!
    Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - an electronic music composition, on CD and vinyl
    https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
    http://www.waysidemusic.com/Music-Pr...MCD-spc-7.aspx

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    I've been trying to drum up some reviews of my latest album, with almost no success. Even the dedicated avant music websites tend not to respond. With the huge amount of music out there, it's really hard to get any attention at all these days.
    This is due to the new shape of the music business. In the old days (like those of Close to the Edge), it not only took incredible skill and talent to be "discovered", but incredible luck! Think of production and studio costs! Today, we can create good sounding music with a good ear and decent equipment for a fraction of the cost, so now there are far more trees in the forest. And to show how many trees there are, I haven't been on Soundcloud for a long time, but seeing your links, I went to your SC page and see that I was already following you, lol! You and I have communicated in the dark past, but it was nice to find you here. I dig a lot of your material as I am now listening to it.

    This is a cool thread- though I am new, I had an account here in the past. I just recall the live chats with Gagliarchives- the comments would just fly by! Anyway, I did just release an album with my band and I subscribe to a lot that has been stated here. First was the music itself- I found some friends with whom we shared ideas. We would each add to the ideas and I would mix it into how I (and the rest of us) felt it should sound. Sometimes we would write another part to a tune, other times we just added your instrument of choice, and then it went to the drummer (I know, kinda backwards, huh?), and I think it worked. I've had a bit of experience producing music by people inspired by Gentle Giant, and though we did not make a killing, we did better than breaking even (the profit would either fund the next CDr or went to the get-togethers we had). But t hat was a few years ago, and the world is even more different now. I will be happy if we do break even, there is more than just the costs of replicating or duplicating the CDs, depending on the project. AND, btw, I already found our album has been pirated! If you see cheap downloads, check the web site scamadviser.

    Bottom line is, if you go into this expecting a big monetary reward, don't. I'm happy with break-even, but would be more happy if I can fund more and better equipment, as that is not cheap!

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