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Thread: Did Spandau Ballet ripoff Roxy Music?

  1. #1
    Member mnprogger's Avatar
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    Did Spandau Ballet ripoff Roxy Music?

    I found a site that made this observation, and a few months back I heard True from Spandau Ballet on the radio for the 50th time in the last few years and have often wondered if I would like more music from SB. But a friend of mine told me that Spandau Ballet are basically just a Roxy Music ripoff.

    Maybe the later Roxy Music they were?

    also my wife said she likens SB to being more like the band ABC who I know had 1 or 2 big hits, but I don't recall being reminded of SB with them necessarily.




  2. #2
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    No. The 'crooner style' has been around.
    SB might have sounded and looked like Roxy at a certain point, but it was more of a New Romantic thing of the time.
    Certainly Roxy influence, but also Bowie, and other Glam elements combined with the 80's synth sounds.
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  3. #3
    No. Spandau Ballet had their own identity. While certain elements of the Roxy sound — "Out of the Blue" in particular — were an influence on Spandau, the latter also drew from plenty of sources that never influenced Ferry and crew, such as US jazz-funk. Kemp or Hadley cited Grover Washington Jr. as an influence in their first Trouser Press spread.

    Gary Kemp, in particular, was encyclopediac when it came to music. A guest column he wrote for a 1983 issue of Smash Hits bespoke his musical acumen.

  4. #4
    Member jake's Avatar
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    I remember seeing this when it was first broadcast and dismissed them instantly as Roxy rip-offs. Big mistake as I went back and found decades later.

  5. #5
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake View Post
    I remember seeing this when it was first broadcast and dismissed them instantly as Roxy rip-offs. Big mistake as I went back and found decades later.
    David Sylvian is one of my favourite singers. Japan is great but I particularly like his solo career. So varied. Such a beautiful/haunting tone. David's two albums with Fripp are excellent.

  6. #6
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Spandau's first album, Journeys To Glory from 1981 is cut from the same cloth as the first Visage, Ultravox, Gary Numan, Real Life, the first Icehouse, iirc. Definitely should be picked up by fans of so-called Minimal Synth style of music.

  7. #7
    Roxy was much more edgy, "proggy", and avant garde than Spandau. The ABC comparison is closer, but they were a superior band also imo.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mnprogger View Post
    I found a site that made this observation, and a few months back I heard True from Spandau Ballet on the radio for the 50th time in the last few years and have often wondered if I would like more music from SB. But a friend of mine told me that Spandau Ballet are basically just a Roxy Music ripoff.

    Maybe the later Roxy Music they were?

    also my wife said she likens SB to being more like the band ABC who I know had 1 or 2 big hits, but I don't recall being reminded of SB with them necessarily.



    Hmmm...other websites...friends...your wife...

    Dude...what do YOU think?
    I only clicked on it because I thought it was going to be something more interesting...

  9. #9
    Well, I really only know the "hits" from Spandau Ballet and ABC. Or at least, their Stateside hits, as I understand that each band had many more in their homeland. So in the case of Spandau Ballet, that's mainly True, and I remember a couple other songs that MTV played, though I couldn't tell you the titles off hand. With ABC, you're talking about Poison Arrow (which I still think is a great song), The Look Of Love, and later on, Be Near Me, When Smokie Sings and Tell Me How To Be A Millionaire (and I saw Mantrap, their weird album length conceptual film, exactly once on MTV).

    So, judging for that admittedly limited selection of songs, I'd reckon that both bands had a more R&B/dance flavor to their music than Roxy Music. Granted, Roxy Music did have their "dance music" moments on those last couple albums, even releasing a couple "extended dance mix" 12" singles.

    I suspect that both Tony Hadley and Martin Fry may have drawn their stage personas from Bryan Ferry's "lounge lizard" thing, though without the irony that Ferry had during the early Roxy Music era (then again, Ferry lost the irony during the late 70's, too). Can also hear a bit of Ferry influence in their actual vocals, too, I think.
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 01-20-2018 at 09:40 PM.

  10. #10
    re: Japan,

    I kinda have a weird history with that band. MTV actually played the Visions Of China, circa 82-83. Maybe not a lot, but they played it often enough that I saw it a few times, and I remember hating it! I guess it was too artsy for my 9-10 year old mind, and I think in particular I didn't like David Sylvian's voice, and I probably didn't like the other idiosyncratic aspects of the band's sound either.

    At some point, John Taylor from Duran Duran (wait for it! wait for it!) did a guest VJ thing on MTV, and he played the VIsions Of China video. I remember they showed the clip, and he came on afterward and talked about how great they were, ending on "Unfortunately, they've now broken up", and I remember thinking "GOOD!", like ya know, like Grumpy Cat meme or something. lol

    So then a few years later, as I was starting to expand my listening habits, there was an article in Guitar Player about Mick Karn. I was starting to get into fretless bass, and having David Torn quoted in the article made my ears prick up, as I was already a fan of his guitar work. So that was one that I sort of filed away at the time.

    But then I found a couple of Sylvian's solo records at the library, and noted both Torn and Fripp (er, I mean Chuckles) were credited as playing on them. I think one was Secrets Of The Beehive, and I forget what the other was. I remember borrowing them, and kind of liking them, though maybe not enough to really dive in full blown.

    Then, Torn and Karn started collaborating on a regular basis, eg the Lonely Universe album, the Polytown project and a couple of Karn's own records. I think that was when I first really heard Karn's playing, and thought "OK, this is definitely something I need to hear more of". At the same time, I came to realize that Simon House had guested on Tin Drum. I was a massive Hawkwind fanboy at the time, and anything even remotely connected to them went on the short list, as it were. Oh yeah, and Richard Barbieri fell in with the Porcupine Tree crew, so that upped the interest.

    I think I ended up eventually buying Tin Drum and Oil On Canvas and love them both. I finally recently followed through on checking out more of their catalog by ordering Gentlemen Take Polaroids and the Rain Tree Crow album (the Japan reunion record from the mid 90's that wasn't actually billed as Japan, but it had Karn, Sylvian, Jansen and Barbieri's names all on the front cover, so I think it's generally recognized as a Japan record). I ordered them from the UK, so they should be arriving in a couple weeks.

    One more thought: I think it was either the first or second Japan album I found in the used bins at Wax Stax at some point around 93 or 94, around the time I was starting to realize I was probably missing out by not knowing their music. I remember looking at the photo and thinking, "Gee, they look like Duran Duran on the original cover of their first album". But of course, it's the other way around: Duran Duran (however briefly) copied their early look from Japan's early look. But I shouldn't have been surprised there, given John Taylor's praise for Japan during his guest VJ spot way back when.

  11. #11
    Side note on Japan: on Mick Karn's 1995 album The Tooth Mother, the guest musicians include Gavin Harrison, Jakko Jaksyk, and Steven Wilson. I think I actually bought the album a couple/few years after it originally came out, as the first time I remember hearing of Gavin or Jakko, was when the former joined Porcupine Tree, and the latter came to my attention with the advent of 21st Century Band. GIven my habit of reading musician credits, songwriting bylines, it seems to me I would have recognized those two names when I saw them connected with those subsequent projects. Or maybe this was the one time I didn't really read the musician credits (I knew David Torn played on it, that was all that was important, maybe). (shrug)

    But I find it curious to find out that two guys who later would end up in King Crimson would, a couple decades earlier, had worked with a musician who had with at least a couple other musicians with King Crimson connections of his own (eg Sylvian's work with Chuckles, Torn's work with Levin and Bruford, etc). And Gavin would end up playing with Karn's ex-Japan mate Richard Barbieri in Porcupine Tree, also.

    Maybe that means nothing, but it just seems curious in my mind.

  12. #12
    Here is the guest-reviewer column that Gary Kemp wrote for the Singles section of the May 1983 issue of Smash Hits. The erudite Spandau guitarist proves knowledgeable in the evolution of American R&B and British rock over the ten-year period leading up to the article.

    Commenting on the Sugarhill Gang and Grandmaster Flash, Kemp shares revelatory insights on the influence of the Second British Invasion on stateside urban contemporary, circa 1982–83. He also offers succinct yet comprehensive commentary on everything from Big Country and Paul Young to the Police and Michael Jackson. Even when he discusses something outside his realm of understanding, such as heavy metal, he maintains his objectivity and yields out of deference to the music's audience.

    I'm most taken by his comments on Paul Weller's evolution at the time of the article, and second Kemp's notion that the former-Jam frontman's change of environment was a brave and necessary move*. I also agree that Shalamar's Friends LP is one of the finer records of 1982 — it bubbles under on this top 10% list of some 941 albums assimilated from that year.

    Overall, Kemp proves much less pop-centric than the fairweathered Spandau fan might imagine.


    *What Kemp alludes to is the ill-suitedness of the power-trio format for the musical vision of a composer — in this case, Weller — who had grown to encompass everything from lavish soul and funk to vocal jazz and bossa nova. A comparison between The Gift — the Jam's swansong, on which the band at times sound ill-equipped to accommodate the stylistic scope of Weller's vision — and the subsequent Style Council output could serve to illuminate Kemp's observations.

  13. #13
    Spandau Ballet were the ghastly epitome of the appalling 'New Romantic' movement, all style and no substance (as with the similarly appalling NWOBHM movement, some bands transcended the category and came out the other side with some sort of merit).

    Remember well; this is the band that inflicted the colossal bowl of slop that is 'True' on the world and for that they should be forever locked in a cage and prodded with pointy sticks while having 'True' blasted at them through a 10,000 watt PA system.

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    But did Deep Purple rip off It's A Beautiful Day?? (Child in Time - Bombay Calling)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halmyre View Post
    Spandau Ballet were the ghastly epitome of the appalling 'New Romantic' movement, all style and no substance (as with the similarly appalling NWOBHM movement, some bands transcended the category and came out the other side with some sort of merit).

    Remember well; this is the band that inflicted the colossal bowl of slop that is 'True' on the world and for that they should be forever locked in a cage and prodded with pointy sticks while having 'True' blasted at them through a 10,000 watt PA system.
    Couldn't agree more. SB were the absolute worst of the New Romantic thing, by the time True arrived they had become the cheesy lounge act they always wanted to be. Thankfully it was all downhill from there. Unlike a number of the bands already mentioned, their music really does not stand up at all.

  16. #16
    ^^^^
    Also agree with the above few posts. "True" was probably the nadir of the decade of the 80s musically, along with the dreck that Culture Club put out.

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    Count me as another who don't rate this band at all. 'Foghorn Hadley' bellowing away about nothing much in particular and a general air of wholly unmerited self-importance.

    I liked Martin Kemp in TV soap Eastenders though (what can I say, I'm a soap fan).

    Talking of New Romantic bands and Roxy Music, there is Duran Duran and 'The Chauffeur', which is very much in the 'In Every Dream Home A Heartache' mould.

  18. #18
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Wow. I thought the New Romantic movement (applied broadly) was just about the only redeeming thing bout 80s popular music. It certainly wasn't Hair Metal, where it all turned to shit, imo. Having said that, the only Spandau Ballet album I have is the first, and it's a long way from "True."

  19. #19
    This thread has put me on a Spandau focus these last few days. Here are four songs that highlight their musical breadth:

    "Mandolin" — Here, Martin Kemp and John Keeble lay a propulsive rhythmic foundation for Gary's carefully-considered chordal interjections and the full, wide, wall-of-synth tones that soar across the middle section. This 1981 track could easily fit on the contemporaneous debut from Icehouse.

    "Coffee Club" — By the thrust of Martin's thick, jerky bass figure, the pattern is set for five minutes of sweaty, dance-floor frenzy, bedecked with strobe-light horn blasts aplenty. A perfect marriage of the earlier funk that influenced the band — as Gary noted, the "'get down tonight' funk of the mid '70s" — and the hybridized grooves of contemporary local acts like Rip, Rig & Panic and Blurt.

    "Pharoah" — Though primarily a foundational-maximalist act, Spandau also prove quite adept to a minimalist framework on this lengthy headpiece, where a circular rhythm sways side-to-side amidst light interjections of ivory, tabla, clipped chords and billowing e-bow. Much like the concurrent work of Peter Gabriel, this 1982 track grows to the ultimate sum of its parts.

    "Through the Barricades" — Sensitive, full-bodied acoustics form the backdrop to this epic tale of pride and perseverance in the throes of strife-torn Ireland. Hadley's vocals have always displayed an intergendered assimilation of sources — an assured, masculine androgyny somewhere between James Ingram and Phyllis Hyman — and here he refines that technique to a new level of command. This 5:20 anthem crests with Steve Norman's soothing sax atop a climactic, martial outro.

    For more highlights from the estimable catalog of Spandau Ballet, queue up the red-listed tracks on this page. If you like most of those, queue up some of the purple-listed tracks as well.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post

    Talking of New Romantic bands and Roxy Music, there is Duran Duran and 'The Chauffeur', which is very much in the 'In Every Dream Home A Heartache' mould.
    Oh, that's just about my favorite song off Rio. I used to listen to that song endless. And the video was directed by Ian Eames, who also created the animation that Pink Floyd used in concert when they played Time during the 70's and 80's.

    I really only know a few of the so called New Romantic bands. Really, Duran Duran, Adam And The Ants and Japan are about all I really know, unless there's other bands that I'm not aware of who are lumped into that same category. It's hard to remember exactly who was punk, post-punk, goth, New Romantic, or new wave. It all blurs together for me.

    But I think there was a lot of great stuff during the 80's, in terms of popular music. I liked a lot of the synth pop stuff. I guess again, you might put Duran Duran in that category, as well as stuff like Thompson Twins, Howard Jones, Berlin, etc.

    Coming back to Roxy Music, those last two albums they did were fantastic. Another example of a band who picked the right time to walk away.

    And I know it's popular in many quarters (including here) to dis glam metal, I think if you're talking like 82-86 or so, most of that stuff is actually pretty decent. Don't give a damn what anyone says, a lot of those bands made some good records. I still think Pyromania, Metal Health, Tooth And Nail, No Tellin' Lies, In Rock We Trust, and Out Of The Cellar were all really good records. Maybe not in the same league as Electric Ladyland, The Who Sell Out, Black Rose, or Demons & Wizards, but still, nothing to sneeze at.

    And I know it's also not fashionable to say so, but I like the first two Asia albums. Then you've got 90125, Duke, and Abacab.

    Thin Lizzy put out some great music in the early 80's, too. Those last three albums are all fantastic. Again, a band who chose the right time to quit.

    And then you had all those great Iron Maiden albums, the Judas Priest stuff, you had that first Deep Purple, that first gaggle of Scorpions records with Mathias Jabs in the band (up through World Wide Live), etc.

    Oh, and one thing I always thought was hilarious was an interview Tony Hadley did, wehre he talked about he almost collapsed from heat exhaustion at Live Aid. It was really really hot, and he decides to wear this full length black coat that most definitely wasn't designed to be worn in that kind of weather (ie scorching hot summer day without a cloud in the sky), because he wanted to look "fashionable" or whatever. What an idiot!

  21. #21
    Ordinary Idiot Superfly's Avatar
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    I've always loved SB's Diamond album, especially side two which has a trilogy of tracks that bleed together which are quite excellent; Pharaoh, Innocence and Science and Missionary. No doubt these guys, and most of the others in the New Romantic movement were inspired by Roxy. Japans "Quiet Life" may as well be a lost Roxy record.
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    Member interbellum's Avatar
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    Just watched the documentary Soul Boys Of The Western World. This shows in a clear way the history of Spandau Ballet, a history - I must confess - I wasn't aware of.

    There's a funny scene from the early days in which Gary Kemp played Steve Howe's The Clap!



  23. #23
    All Things Must Pass spellbound's Avatar
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    I have all the Roxy Music albums and no Spandau Ballet albums. If the latter ripped off the former, "Well, I wouldn't know, now would I?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino
    But did Deep Purple rip off It's A Beautiful Day?? (Child in Time - Bombay Calling)
    Those songs are very similar. Perhaps Deep Purple attended the Led Zeppelin School of Musical Ethics.
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  24. #24
    re: Deep Purple ripping off It's A Beautiful Day

    Quote Originally Posted by spellbound View Post
    Those songs are very similar. Perhaps Deep Purple attended the Led Zeppelin School of Musical Ethics.
    Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, that kind of thing was and probably still is very common in music. There's lots of records where you go "That sounds just like...". One that's always stuck in my mind is the Triumph song Too Much Thinking, which pretty much lifts the entire verse structure, chords, melody, etc off of Black Sabbath's Neon Knights.

    And let's forget the absence of the respective composers on the bylines of The Barbarian, The Knife Edge, and I Believe In Father Christmas (which borrow, in order, from the work of Bartok, Janacek and Prokofiev).

    Getting back to Deep Purple, I believe I read in the liner notes of the In Rock 25th anniversary reissue that It's A Beautiful Day got their revenge by subsequently lifting a Deep Purple riff for one of their songs.

    One more thought, which I sorta already stated in my previous post on this thread, but it's become more clear to me, as I listen to more Japan, that they were the band that Duran Duran really, really wanted to be. It wasn't just the look around the time of the first DD album, but even musically, they sound like a more radio friendly, maybe somewhat less arsty version of Japan.

  25. #25
    All Things Must Pass spellbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris
    Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, that kind of thing was and probably still is very common in music.
    I'm sure that's true. In the case of Deep Purple/It's A Beautiful Day, or for that matter Roxy Music/Spandau Ballet, there were no lawsuits that I know of. It's all based on what we hear, and some speculation. In the end, I have no problem with people pointing out song similarities, whether or not I agree. Discussion is good. Leave acrimony to the lawyers. I remain a fan of It's A Beautiful Day, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Moby Grape, and Spirit.

    Getting back to Deep Purple, I believe I read in the liner notes of the In Rock 25th anniversary reissue that It's A Beautiful Day got their revenge by subsequently lifting a Deep Purple riff for one of their songs.
    That's awesome. I don't think I ever got the 25th anniversary edition of In Rock. I already had the record and the CD long before the 25th Anniversary Ed. came along.
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