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Thread: Frank Zappa vs Pekka Pohjola

  1. #76
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclemeat View Post
    People keep saying this, although there are very few instances of that in his work :
    The Illinois enema bandit
    Why does it hurt when I pee ?
    one scene in Thing Fish
    Scatology also means more broadly "interest in or treatment of obscene matters especially in literature." Mysterious Traveler put it well: "Zappa was hell-bent on his lyrical mockery of society." I find that sort of intense and unrelenting mockery to be ultimately exhausting and not uplifting. "Never wrestle with a pig, you'll just get dirty and the pig enjoys it." Zappa spent way too much of his time wrestling pigs IMO.

    Pohjola, he took the high road.
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 01-10-2018 at 07:27 AM.

  2. #77
    I tend to like most things Zappa from 1966-78, although only scarcely after that. I simply love (and still frequently revisit) the MoI-era 1967-70, and I enjoy and highly respect what came after - until the early/mid-80s. He was prolific as hell, and as such there's an impressive ratio of great stuff to be had.

    But I never really heard a Pohjola release I didn't sincerely like. Some of his albums are surely uneven, and often the ones which also happen to contain my fave material by him - but they were never "bad" or next-to-pointless to me as in some of Zappa's 80s stuff.

    I live kinda happily with both.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
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  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    Get Space Waltz immediately! One of my favorite PP albums. Flight of the Angel and Pewit are likewise essential listening.
    I prefer Visitation over Space waltz because it has some brass and it reminds me on Finland, where I bought it. Besides it was my first Pekka Pohjola CD, though I had Mike & Sally Oldfield Pekka Pohjola (a.k.a. Keesojen Letho) on vinyl.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Pohjola, he took the high road.
    For Zappa, there was no "high road".

    ... according to Merriam-Webster... The amalgam of scatology and obscenity seems to be an American deviation, of possible puritan origin. It is not implied by the word's etymology or colloquial usage in other cultures.
    Last edited by unclemeat; 01-10-2018 at 08:14 AM.

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Scatology also means more broadly "interest in or treatment of obscene matters especially in literature." Mysterious Traveler put it well: "Zappa was hell-bent on his lyrical mockery of society." I find that sort of intense and unrelenting mockery to be ultimately exhausting and not uplifting. "Never wrestle with a pig, you'll just get dirty and the pig enjoys it." Zappa spent way too much of his time wrestling pigs IMO.

    Pohjola, he took the high road.
    There wouldn't be any literature as such, if not for "interest on obscene matters."

  6. #81
    The misogyny claim is also pretty cool. Obviously someone is a misogynist if he writes satire songs about women. I guess he can viably be called an anti-semite on account of songs like Jewish Princess.

    Anyway, the thread is finally becoming what it was supposed to be in the first place (a Zappa-depreciation thread on increasingly not musical grounds), so I'll take the high road too and refrain from further comment - unless someone wants to specifically adress me on what I have already written.

  7. #82
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Scatology has always had a pretty specific meaning, as I've seen it used.

  8. #83
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    scatology
    skaˈtɒlədʒi/
    noun
    noun: scatology

    *an interest in or preoccupation with excrement and excretion.
    * obscene literature that is concerned with excrement and excretion.

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Even though the "focus" of a good bit of his music is comedy which is misogynist, puerile, scatological and patently offensive.

    IMO
    It's the focus of literally none of his music. Unless you consider lyrical subject matter music. Even then, "a good bit" is a good bit vague, perhaps intentionally. The textual side of Zappa is as near all-encompassing in subject matter as just about any author you can name. The elements that one might find offensive may stick out to the offended, but they're really only features in a vast landscape.

    Like any prolific producer of challenging art, the totality of Zappa's output requires a huge investment of time and mental effort for the listener to assimilate. (I certainly haven't yet). Textually it gleefully nudges the listener at every turn to reconsider long-held presumptions about politics, culture, psychology, morality, race, love, sexuality, gender, economics, and from time to time the very nature of existence. Musically also, it challenges presumptions about what music is and ought to be, especially rock/pop music but also jazz, blues, classical and electronic.

    Apples and oranges. Of course oranges aren't easily grown in Finland, but I understand there are apple orchards in the south.

  10. #85
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrailroad View Post
    It's the focus of literally none of his music. Unless you consider lyrical subject matter music.
    I would LITERALLY consider the lyrics as part of his music.

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    I prefer Visitation over Space waltz because it has some brass and it reminds me on Finland, where I bought it. Besides it was my first Pekka Pohjola CD, though I had Mike & Sally Oldfield Pekka Pohjola (a.k.a. Keesojen Letho) on vinyl.
    I was offering recommendations on post-1980 releases. Space Waltz is probably my favorite PP album from that period, the songs are all fantastic.
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  12. #87
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrailroad View Post
    It's the focus of literally none of his music. Unless you consider lyrical subject matter music.
    I suppose that's the crux of the matter. Pekka made music only and did not feel any compulsion to drown that music under inane lyrics
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    crux of the matter
    You mean "biscuit".

  14. #89
    I'm amazed Wigwam found such a good replacement of Pekka with Måns "Måsse" Groundstroem. He did a great job.

    From:

    https://translate.google.com/transla...em&prev=search

    Måns Ivar Åkesson "Måsse" Groundstroem (born April 23, 1949 ) is a Finnish bassist, studio technician and music producer. [1] He was the longest bassist of the Finnish progressive rock band Wigwam (1974-2003). Previously, he played in the ensembles of the President of the Republic and the Blues Section and became known as a music producer and recorder until he abandoned the work of music in the 1980's. Groundstroem returned as a music producer and playwright in the early 1990s when President and Wigwam re-activated and continued to play until 2004 when he opted for a retirement pension due to aggravated psoriasis . In 2007, Groundstroem was granted a state artist's pension . In recent years, Groundstroem has been part of the Wigwam-members and other visitors of Wigwam-revisited! configuration. He has also rarely played the role of recorder and producer in the releases of various artists.

    End quote.

    Has a long list of accomplishments.

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