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Thread: The Death of Rock Music

  1. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    because there are other things more important to people, like computergames.
    Yes. Not even pornography suffices secular customs anymore, since schtick won't click anyway.

    Only Pac-Man and Space Invaders do. I gotta get me some! Sit up until late mornings to crack that Pac and juice 'em suits. And afterwards I'm a bit afraid to attend the grocery store in case of encountering some being whose very aesthetic existence threatens to challenge my chosen tiny universe of formidable truth which I myself decided on agreeing to.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  2. #352
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    Well, every fad fades away eventually...

  3. #353
    Member Camelogue's Avatar
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    Rock is no longer mainstream that is for sure.

  4. #354
    But it ain't dead. Perhaps it sounds different. Just like jazz has changed over the years and decades.

  5. #355
    Taker of Naps IncogNeato's Avatar
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    There is a LOT to read in this thread, so forgive me if this has been touched upon already, but:

    IMO, the only thing "dead" about Rock & Roll is its mass commercial appeal. You can't kill a spirit. You can't kill art. It may fade from mass public approval, but it can't die.

    I saw someone in this thread use the word "Disneyfication" and that's exactly what has happened to Rock & Roll. In the hive-mind of mainstream culture, it has been homogonized to white noise schtick. Acts like Foo Figters and Metallica have become token. For the majority of the world, Rock & Roll has become a Pepsi commercial or a ringtone. It's been American Idoled. It's been Nickelbacked. It's worse than it was in the 80s and 90s because, at least then, it was still mostly human. Rock & Roll hasn't shocked anyone since Marilyn Manson, and it may never do that again on that level.

    But, Rock & Roll and it's defiant, even progressive spirit, is alive and well. It's in bars and basements, it's on Bandcamp, it's on free downloads from people you've never heard of. It's not much of a career opportunity anymore. Corporations don't value art and it takes corporations to get massive these days.

    Jazz isn't dead. Bluegrass isn't dead. Classical isn't dead. Rock & Roll isn't dead. It just went back to its own audience.

  6. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by IncogNeato View Post
    There is a LOT to read in this thread, so forgive me if this has been touched upon already, but:

    IMO, the only thing "dead" about Rock & Roll is its mass commercial appeal. You can't kill a spirit. You can't kill art. It may fade from mass public approval, but it can't die.

    I saw someone in this thread use the word "Disneyfication" and that's exactly what has happened to Rock & Roll. In the hive-mind of mainstream culture, it has been homogonized to white noise schtick. Acts like Foo Figters and Metallica have become token. For the majority of the world, Rock & Roll has become a Pepsi commercial or a ringtone. It's been American Idoled. It's been Nickelbacked. It's worse than it was in the 80s and 90s because, at least then, it was still mostly human. Rock & Roll hasn't shocked anyone since Marilyn Manson, and it may never do that again on that level.

    But, Rock & Roll and it's defiant, even progressive spirit, is alive and well. It's in bars and basements, it's on Bandcamp, it's on free downloads from people you've never heard of. It's not much of a career opportunity anymore. Corporations don't value art and it takes corporations to get massive these days.

    Jazz isn't dead. Bluegrass isn't dead. Classical isn't dead. Rock & Roll isn't dead. It just went back to its own audience.
    I think you are right.

    Becoming a rock-musician is not longer a way to make it big. Gone are the times when the ones who didn't exell at soccer dreamt of a career in music, to get attention.

  7. #357
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    But it ain't dead. Perhaps it sounds different. Just like jazz has changed over the years and decades.
    It's completely dead in terms of cultural significance.

  8. #358
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IncogNeato View Post
    Rock & Roll hasn't shocked anyone since Marilyn Manson, and it may never do that again on that level.
    I'm fine with that. I couldn't care less about "shock." Just give me good music (which Manson did not, IMO).
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  9. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    It's completely dead in terms of cultural significance.
    Not more than other forms of music, or art.

  10. #360
    Don't much care about Manson's music, but about him as a human- which is pretty deplorable. Let's not hold him up for anything. To the point, rock is not dead but it is kind of moribund. Sure, there is stuff on the web, in bandcamp and so on but it is hard to find; you sort of have to be led to it. I know rock is moribund just by looking at the charts and at who gets Grammy nods. It is largely product. Country is ascendant due to its conservative trappings, and rap is popular, even if it does not speak to me, since I am old.

    I find myself listening more and more to music from the late 60s and early 70s, when to me music really mattered and a new release was a huge cause for happiness and excitement. I know I have turned into my parents- who still listen to Sinatra and Streisand and show tunes. Not much rock excites me now, and it is hard to find anyway. It has also become atomized and nichified.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  11. #361
    Taker of Naps IncogNeato's Avatar
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    Like I said, yeah it's "dead" in terms of mass commercial appeal. But in terms of an art form, it's very much alive.

    My comment on Marylin Manson had more to do with timeline than the band.

    From the beginning, one of Rock & Roll's cultural identifiers was it's ability to shock culture in one way or another. Elvis shocked us. The Beatles shocked us. Black Sabbath shocked us. Nirvana shook things up. Marylin Manson stirred a lot of contrversy. The early 00s was the last time Rock & Roll did anything to make any kind of waves in terms of mass cultural attention.

    There are things being done in the underground of Rock & Roll music, in all its subcategories, that are new, exciting and could lead to big things. The main problem now is there is no money being funneled to it to help get it noticed by mass, mainstream audience. Corporations are more interested in maintaining profit by exploiting proven strategies until they're bled dry. They don't care about art.

  12. #362
    The main problem now is there is no money being funneled to it to help get it noticed by mass, mainstream audience. Corporations are more interested in maintaining profit by exploiting proven strategies until they're bled dry. They don't care about art.
    I think this is a good summary. When I look at the charts, it is mostly RnB, and not much rock, with a smattering of Taylor Swift and K-Pop thrown in. ANd the rock that is up there is not of much interest to me- I mean, Wet Leg has a good song, but it is not exciting stuff, just as example.
    https://monsterriff.com/2021/07/10/is-rock-dead/
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  13. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    Don't much care about Manson's music, but about him as a human- which is pretty deplorable. Let's not hold him up for anything. To the point, rock is not dead but it is kind of moribund. Sure, there is stuff on the web, in bandcamp and so on but it is hard to find; you sort of have to be led to it. I know rock is moribund just by looking at the charts and at who gets Grammy nods. It is largely product. Country is ascendant due to its conservative trappings, and rap is popular, even if it does not speak to me, since I am old.

    I find myself listening more and more to music from the late 60s and early 70s, when to me music really mattered and a new release was a huge cause for happiness and excitement. I know I have turned into my parents- who still listen to Sinatra and Streisand and show tunes. Not much rock excites me now, and it is hard to find anyway. It has also become atomized and nichified.
    Well, I still listen to new music, though perhaps mostly neo-classical or jazz. I more or less grew up in the 70s, so partly that is one of the eras I like. I'm also still interested in stuff from the 80s, because for me it was a time of changes, probably the biggest change some might have in their life. So the music from that era has a special place in my heart, also because it remembers me of those days. Perhaps the 80 were more or less the last time I heard music that really touched me as being different, at least for me. Stuff like Mo, Wim Mertens, Bel Canto and Dead Can Dance came to me as a kind of breath of fresh air, when I heard those artists for the first time, I was exited.

  14. #364
    Taker of Naps IncogNeato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    I think this is a good summary. When I look at the charts, it is mostly RnB, and not much rock, with a smattering of Taylor Swift and K-Pop thrown in. ANd the rock that is up there is not of much interest to me- I mean, Wet Leg has a good song, but it is not exciting stuff, just as example.
    https://monsterriff.com/2021/07/10/is-rock-dead/
    That's a great article. Also, The Obelisk is a great site!

  15. #365
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    There is still tons of great rock music being made out there. Most of the bands are playing at club level, so they do not fill arenas (although there are some exceptions), but it is still there. A few examples:

    Arena level bands:

    Foo Fighters
    Ghost
    Volbeat
    Alter Bridge
    Jack White
    The Black Keys
    Greta Van Fleet
    Halestorm

    Club level headliners in the U.S.:

    Rival Sons
    The Struts
    Black Stone Cherry
    Ghost Hounds
    Rosalie Cunningham
    H.E.A.T.
    Massive Wagons
    Larkin Poe
    Dirty Honey
    Tyler Bryant & The Shakedown
    Marcus King
    The Velveteers
    The Sheepdogs
    Tuk Smith & The Restless Hearts
    Low Cut Connie

    All of these bands are still flying the flag of rock n roll.

  16. #366
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    Arena level:
    + Red Hot Chili Peppers
    + Coldplay
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  17. #367
    Taker of Naps IncogNeato's Avatar
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    @bigbassdrum and @SteveSly

    Both valid points, but those arena level acts are nearly all legacy acts and very few of them can carry an arena on their own like Foo Fighters can. Even the younger bands on that list like GVF and Ghost need multi-band bills to play arenas.

    That said, they are there and they are playing to crowds. Those are the bands that are getting promotional funds to get in front of the most people. And, the headliners who do require the multi-band bills to play arenas are relying on the lower billed bands buying in to afford it.

  18. #368
    There are several problems at the same time.
    Less places for live-music. In the past bands started performing live and make records when live-playing got them some attention.
    Less album sales, exept perhaps for some artists.
    First, musicians played live and releasing an album was something extra.
    Then, concerts as a way to bring a new album to the attention of the public. Album sales compensating costs for live-concerts.
    Now, concerts need to make money, because album-sales are going down, so money has to be made by playing live.
    Ticket-prices going up, because the artists have to make a living and then there are all other people involved, that want to be paid, like roadies, technicians and perhaps someone to sell the merchandise.
    Hiring a DJ is cheaper, because it needs less additional personel.

  19. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by IncogNeato View Post
    @bigbassdrum and @SteveSly

    Both valid points, but those arena level acts are nearly all legacy acts and very few of them can carry an arena on their own like Foo Fighters can. Even the younger bands on that list like GVF and Ghost need multi-band bills to play arenas.
    .
    Good point. I have seen both Greta Van Fleet and Ghost in arenas within the last year and both were 3 band bills: Ghost / Volbeat / Twin Temple, Greta Van Fleet / Rival Sons / The Velveteers. In the case of Greta, their show sold out on the pre-sale before tickets even went on sale to the public, so I think they would have sold it out even without the other bands. The Ghost show was not sold out, although they had a good crowd.

  20. #370
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    I didn't watch the Grammys last night, but was rock even decently represented as a genre? I understand Brandi Carlile had best rock song (she's talented, I think, but rock?) and someone named Ozzy Osbourne won best rock album (Not exactly an up-and-comer; sadly, he's cancelled touring recently).

  21. #371
    The Grammys were an utter joke. I hardly recognize the names who won, and most come from the rap and hip hop world, or are manufactured, such as Harry Styles. And catch the faux controversy of Beyonce not winning record of the year. I got excited for a minute when I saw the name Steve Lacy up there, but of course it was not the late jazzer. I will give them Bonnie Raitt, who won 3 awards, finally. Y'know, the unknown blues singer, to read some headlines...

    Rock is dead, writ large. When your choices are Ozzy, Black Keys, Spoon, Elvis Costello, the Idles (who?) and that idiot Machine Gun Kelly (a rapper!), say no more. Whatever is happening in rock is happening at the local level- at the national level it has no following in the industry.

    https://pitchfork.com/news/grammys-2...ull-list-here/
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  22. #372
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    I watched the grammys but was only half paying attention much of the time and turned it off towards the end. The only high point for me was when Stevie Wonder played. The crowd reaction to me made me think that some people were surprised that Stevie Wonder would cover a Red Hot Chilipeppers song. They had this big 50th anniversary rap/hip hop thing which was ok I guess. Does this mean rock n roll started in 1949? The first rap album wasn't until the late 70s but whatever. They would never have a little special for rock like that anyway. Not only that the crowd didn't seem to recognize Jeff Beck when his name came on the screen during the memorial section let alone Christine McVie and others. They only seemed excited about hip hop/pop. What is this world coming to? Ask someone these days if they like Pink Floyd their response might be no I don't know him. Is he related to the singer Pink?
    Do not suffer through the game of chance that plays....always doors to lock away your dreams (To Be Over)

  23. #373
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    I missed the Grammys, unfortunately I had to wash my hair that night.

  24. #374
    Taker of Naps IncogNeato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    The Grammys are an utter joke.
    Fixed it for you.

  25. #375
    I accept the correction.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

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