RIP Johnny Halliday - France under shock

[Steve F.]

He was GIGANTIC in France; I am a little surprised Robert never even heard of him.

[rcarlberg]

"Big in Japan" is a epithet in some circles

[rcarlberg]

But there's almost always an outlier who is completely flummoxed or a troll.

[DocProgger]

Yeah, you can quote multiple posts so that your post has all the context to stand on its own, and it's quite commonly done here. It's pretty obvious to most that if someone quotes a conversation that includes themselves, they're well versed with their own contribution and wouldn't be asking themselves a question if a question is asked. But there's almost always an outlier who is completely flummoxed or a troll.

I see. You da man...er...primate!

[Steve F.]

"Big in Japan" is a epithet in some circles

"Ignorance of someone else's culture is apparently considered cool."

[JKL2000]

"Ignorance of someone else's culture is apparently considered cool."

Il ne regrette rien.

[rcarlberg]

I am a little surprised Robert never even heard of him.

To be fair, I had to turn off the Grammies this year. Hadn't heard of ANY of the nominees.

[Progbear]

[rcarlberg]

[moecurlythanu]

To be fair, I had to turn off the Grammies this year. Hadn't heard of ANY of the nominees.

Adele and the Grammy nominees walk into a bar...

[Baribrotzer]

"Big in Japan" is a epithet in some circles

Or, for that matter, "Big in France".....

.....Which implies that you're like Jerry Lewis, that you're a guy who other countries have the good taste to recognize as no first-rater - but who became huge in France for inscrutable reasons having to do with the French national character, with French popular culture, or with arguments that sound absolutely convincing in French but in no other language.

(I do not mean most of this seriously)

[Progmatic]

I scanned one of his concert videos...he could sweat like nobody's business

[DocProgger]

Sergeant: Imagine your loved ones conquered by Napoleon and forced to live under French rule. Do you want them to eat that rich food and those heavy sauces?

Russian Soldiers: No...!

Sergeant: Do you want them to have soufflé every meal and croissant?

Russian Soldiers: ....No!

(from Love and Death, W. Allen)

[GuitarGeek]

Sergeant: Imagine your loved ones conquered by Napoleon and forced to live under French rule. Do you want them to eat that rich food and those heavy sauces?

Russian Soldiers: No...!

Sergeant: Do you want them to have soufflé every meal and croissant?

Russian Soldiers: ....No!

(from Love and Death, W. Allen)

That must be where Michael Moore stole the news reader's rant in Canadian Bacon...something to the effect of "Do you want your children pledging allegiance to the the Maple Leaf? Winter 9 months out of the year? Anne Murray, all day, every day?!"

I can't remember if I knew about Johnny Hallyday before I heard that Jannick Top had played with him. Most of the French singers I know about, for really stupid reasons (eg Serge Gainsbourg's infamous talk show encounter with Whitney Houston) or because of their associations with groups like Magma (eg Stella's pre-zheul career as a teenage chanteuse). My interest in Europop (or at least Europop from the 60's and 70's) really only kicked into gear a few years ago, when Duncan Goddard of Radio Massacre International posted a video on Facebook of late 70's Dutch girl group 'Luv.

According to Wikipedia, Hallyday sold 110 million records worldwide, thus making him one of the biggest selling artists of all time. Yeah, I know such statistics carry little currency here, but to some, that actually means something.

"Big in Japan" is a epithet in some circles

I never understood why that would be an insult. Are the Japanese still fascinated with all things rock n roll? I remember, I think i twas Lita Ford, commenting on how big The Runaways were in Japan, who said that "All you have to do to be successful there is being American and have blonde hair".

"Ignorance of someone else's culture is apparently considered cool."

My experience is that's always been the case. Maybe not literally always, but let's say since at least the 70's. I remember having to write an apology letter in the 8th grade because of a group of students who misbehaved during a class field trip to an Anne Frank exhibit that was visiting Cleveland at the time. I wasn't even one of the misbehaving students, but there was apparently enough of them that the powers that be (whether it was the principal or whomever) decided we all had to apologize, even if we were behaving ourselves. And my recollection is my first draft didn't satisfy my English teacher sufficiently, so I had to write it out a second time, changing the wording, etc.

As it applies to music, every country has it stars that are virtually unknown outside of their borders. The Tragically Hip are an obvious example. They were as big as The Rolling Stones or Pink Floyd in Canada, but mostly unknown Stateside. How many Americans do you think have heard of Rabbitt, Dschinges Khan, 'Luv, Cliff Richard, The Vanguards, Inge Lise Rypdal, Marie-France Dufour, Kyu Sakamoto, King Sunny Ade or The Les Humphries Singers? Yet I understand every last one of those artists were hot stuff in their respective homelands.

[JJ88]

I know who he was- there's some late 60s album, the one pictured in the YouTube clip above, which had Jimmy Page and The Small Faces on it- but don't know any of his songs, unfortunately. He didn't have any UK hits that I know of. A few of the other French pop stars of the time did have a hit or two, and then there were British people like Petula Clark who had a big following there and also recorded material specifically for that market. The cult UK rocker Vince Taylor was another.

[Big Ears]

The French also inflicted Claude François upon us. In fairness to him, this must be the worst thing he ever did, but it is progressive (and seasonal). He started to make inroads in the UK, in the mid-seventies, with his jaunty pop songs, but was killed in an accident. He was described in our press as the French Elvis at the time.

[alucard]

He was GIGANTIC in France; I am a little surprised Robert never even heard of him.

What's interesting, that he started as a youth idol, became a popular rock singer and also played as an actor for Jean Luc Godard and others. A bit like Yves Montand at his time who had become and icon at his own lifetime.

[Baribrotzer]

How many Americans do you think have heard of.....King Sunny Ade.....? Yet I understand every last one of those artists were hot stuff in their respective homelands.

King Sunny was big among US hipsters in the Eighties, in the wake of African-influenced rock/pop like Remain in Light, or Eighties Crimson.

[rcarlberg]

... huge in France for inscrutable reasons having to do with the French national character, with French popular culture,

I'm not a Francophobe but there ARE several examples of artists who are "popular in France" and nowhere else. Not sure what that means... if anything.

[Steve F.]

King Sunny was big among US hipsters in the Eighties, in the wake of African-influenced rock/pop like Remain in Light, or Eighties Crimson.

He was big enough that in the 80s and 90s, he played 3,000 seat venues in major east coast cities, coming through every 18-30 months and doing so.

[Steve F.]

I'm not a Francophobe but there ARE several examples of artists who are "popular in France" and nowhere else.

True, but basically true for any country whose main language isn't English. There are Spanish, Italian, German, etc etc etc superstars who have no following at all outside of their language base.

[rcarlberg]

Jerry Lewis was American. Jane Birkin is English. Carla Bruni is Italian. Costco is American.

Here's a good article on Hallyday.

[Progbear]

Hallyday was (as in: had been, years before his death) married to another Francophone pop legend, Sylvie Vartan. I remember they were trying to push their son as a star for a time in the 80s, including an embarrassing “comedy” movie, He’s My Girl.

Never thought I’d hear Luv’ mentioned at PE. I first heard of them in the book Bubblegum Music Is the Naked Truth, where they were put forth as the ultimate ABBA knockoff. They sure as hell were cheesy. But when it comes to Dutch ABBA knockoffs, I prefer Champagne, who were no less cheesy, but a lot more blatant about it; the only difference being that the Agnetha manqué was a redhead rather than a blonde. Wally Tax, of proto-punk act the Outsiders, was responsible for writing the bulk of their hits.

I guarantee at least a few here have heard of Rabbitt (thanks to Trevor Rabin being a member), Inger-Lise Rypdal (via her marriage to the legendary Terje Rypdal), Cliff Richard (some surely must remember his late 70s and early 80s hits, even if oldies radio doesn’t) and Les Humphries Singers (because John Lawton had been a member).

[GuitarGeek]

King Sunny was big among US hipsters in the Eighties, in the wake of African-influenced rock/pop like Remain in Light, or Eighties Crimson.

Your so called "hipsters" represent a relatively small fragment of the US population, if I'm not mistaken. America at large had and still has no clue who King Sunny Ade is.

He was big enough that in the 80s and 90s, he played 3,000 seat venues in major east coast cities, coming through every 18-30 months and doing so.

But did that translate to him being a "household name" Stateside, the way, let's say Bob Marley is? If you picked a person at random off the street, even in the cities you're talking about, and mentioned Ade to him or her, what would be the odds they'd have any idea who you were talking about?

It's possible to fill a 3000 seat venue, while still flying under the radar of the vast majority of the given municipality's population, and indeed, the national population. I somehow suspect the majority of my coworkers have no idea who King Crimson are, despite them pretty much packed the Hard Rocksino or whatever it's called here in town a couple weeks ago (to be fair, I did have one manager at work, 3 years ago, who was stunned when I told him the setlist they did in Albany, on the opening night of the 2014 tour).

True, but basically true for any country whose main language isn't English. There are Spanish, Italian, German, etc etc etc superstars who have no following at all outside of their language base.

Very true. And here in the US, at least, you have an entire Latin American community who have their idols, heroes, etc who mean next to nothing to those who didn't grow up in those circles ( I think that phrases the matter more tactfully than my original choice of words). I had never heard of Catinflas before I heard him mentioned in some art film I saw about 15 years ago (where an senile Latina talks about marrying Catinflas and going to the moon to live with him). I'd never heard Selena before she was murdered (then again, I didn't really know who John Lennon was until he was shot, too). I remember coming upon a news report on Univision one night about 10 years ago, while looking for something to watch, about a Latino entertainer who had passed away, and they're showing footage of the mourners (and I'm talking thousands) following his funeral procession, etc. I remember actually coming on here and asking if anyone knew who died (and a name was put forth, but dammit, I've forgotten it now), because all I could understand from the broadcast, not being particularly fluent in Spanish was, this was the "Ultimo adios" for this particular performer who obviously was very much loved by that audience.

[GuitarGeek]

Hallyday was (as in: had been, years before his death) another Francophone pop legend, Sylvie Vartan. I remember they were trying to push their son as a star for a time in the 80s, including an embarrassing “comedy” movie, He’s My Girl.

That somhoew reminds me of Dominican actor Andres Garcia. I gather he was a major matinee idol in the late 60's and 70's in Latin America. He's known to me because he was in some downright bizarre B-movies during the late 70's, but I guess he was like Robert Redford or Burt Reynolds to that audience (though I can't imagine Redford or Reynolds ever appearing in something as off the wall as L'Ultimo SOS, Cave Of The Sharks, or Bermuda Triangle). Anyway, about 15 or so years ago, he did a reality TV show, where he was supposed to helping his son find a wife, only the ladies seemed to be more interested in Garcia Sr (I guess he has the Sean Connery thing going, where he's still sexy or whatever, even though he's in 60's), which apparently upset the son so much he quit the show.

Never thought I’d hear Luv’ mentioned at PE. I first heard of them in the book Bubblegum Music Is the Naked Truth, where they were put forth as the ultimate ABBA knockoff. They sure as hell were cheesy.

Duncan Goddard suggested that if one didn't know better, just listening to Luv', you'd think i twas actually Abba recording under a different name. Personally, I don't think they sound that much like Abba, but I suppose I see the similarities.

BTW, you want to know how I first heard of Luv'? Their hit You're The Greatest Lover was used as the theme music for a German movie called She's 19 And Ready (or at least that's the title on the English version). Where did I see this movie? I saw it, as a teenager, on Cinemax's Friday After Dark block. Yes, it's that kind of a movie. That's also where I first heard Dschinges Khan, who actually appear in the movie, apparently performing at a Hong Kong nightclub the main characters go to.

But when it comes to Dutch ABBA knockoffs, I prefer Champagne, who were no less cheesy, but a lot more blatant about it; the only difference being that the Agnetha manqué was a redhead rather than a blonde. Wally Tax, of proto-punk act the Outsiders, was responsible for writing the bulk of their hits.

Not sure I've heard Champagne. I have heard Silver Connection, though admittedly only the one song (Fly Robin Fly).

I guarantee at least a few here have heard of Rabbitt (thanks to Trevor Rabin being a member), Inger-Lise Rypdal (via her marriage to the legendary Terje Rypdal), Cliff Richard (some surely must remember his late 70s and early 80s hits, even if oldies radio doesn’t) and Les Humphries Singers (because John Lawton had been a member).

By "here", you mean PE, yes? OK, but once again, PE doesn't represent the general American public. I forget which Yes biography I saw who said that Rabbitt were a stadium filling band in South Africa, and almost totally unknown everywhere else.

And most Americans have no idea who John Lawton or Terje Rypdal are as well.