My one and only time seeing The Police was on the 07 tour. We actually had seats on the back side of the stage, which I thought would suck, but they turned out to be really cool. We had a side view of Stewart Copeland right in front of us, and he was amazing to watch at such a close proximity. Both Sting and Summers came over and played right in front of us several times, and it was interesting to watch the crowed out in front of the stage react to the band.
Yeah, but is it a "we're just having" smile" or a "knowing" smile? According tot he Message In A Box liner notes, they actually did get into fights, apparently Sting had to play show with a broken rib because he and Stewart had a punch up in the dressing room beforehand. So he may have been kidding about kicking Sting's ass right then and there in front of Martha Quinn (man, I had such a crush on her back then), but it would seem that such things did occasionally happen.
And apparently the arguing (plus Stewart breaking his collarbone) was why we didn't a sixth album from them, though apparently, Sting wasn't interested in writing new songs for The Police to play, so apparently, as was mentioned, it would have been just them redoing their old songs, as per Don't Stand So Close To Me '86.
But all the fighting and arguing aside, it does seem they actually do respect each other as musicians. Sting was quoted in the early 80's as saying there's no one else he'd rather play with than Stewart and Andy, it's just that "None of us are easy to work with".
BTW, what say ye of the things these three have done besides The Police? I don't mean just solo albums, but what about things like Dantalion's Chariot and The New Animals (the two bands Andy recorded with during the 60's). I remember liking Don't Box Me, the song Stewart did with Stan Ridgeway from Wall Of Voodoo, which was part of his score for Rumble Fish, I've always been curious to hear more of his solo stuff.
I remember Andy doing this ridiculous synth pop/dance music rendition of the Also Sprach Zarathustra for the 2010 soundtrack (though, as I recall, it doesn't actually appear in the movie, even though the video and cover art for the 12" single tied to the movie, promotion wise). And I also remember Love Is The Strangest Thing, which was the single from his first solo album, which I gather was his only conventional sort of "pop" or "rock" solo record, his subsequent records apparently being all instrumental.
Well, Sting and Andy both played bass pedals onstage, I can't remember if you can see they're present in the Synchronicity Concert, but certainly they each have them onstage in the Police Around The World film, and there's quite a few songs where you can hear synth parts that sound they were conceived with the idea they'd be played from pedals. And on the Synchronicity tour, at the very least, they did use a sequencer on at least a couple songs, Synchronicity II and Wrapped Around Your Finger. During the same time period, Rush wasn't doing anything any more sophisticated, in terms of using bass pedals and sequencers.
I have the understanding that Rush eventually, later on, used more elaborate triggering systems, but I'm not sure if that technology even existed in 1983. I think that was one of the things that MIDI made possible, and that was only just starting to exist at the time of the Synchronicity tour.
Speaking of The Synchronicity Concert, that is one of the weirdest concert videos I've ever seeen in my life. It was like the camera crew got bored with filming the band, so instead they started filming the audience. Seriously, like half the video is of the audience, rather than the band. The other thing I always thought was weird was, apparently, as I understand it, on that tour they actually segued the two Synchronicity songs together, but on the video, you only see/hear Synchronicity I, with the ending edited to suggest that they came to a cold ending, or whatever you want to say, no segue into anything. Curious that they did that in the video.
But there's some cool moments in there too, lots of good songs, played very very well, and a nice closeup on Andy during the bridge of Every Breath You Take, where you can see him alternating between strumming chords and playing the piano part as harmonics on the guitar. At the time that seemed really startling, though seeing it relatively recently, it doesn't seem so impressive, beyond the idea that he came up with this idea of how to play the piano part, without having an extra musician onstage or have it on tape or whatever.
I kinda wish they'd release more of the concert footage that exists from the band's original existence. They're one of those bands where there seems to be quite a lot of stuff that still hasn't been released. I know there was a video compilation that came out, I think in the mid 90's, that had cherry picked one or two songs from each concert, I think linked together with interview footage, would love to see some of those shows in their entirety. As I recall, there's a great bit in the middle of one of the songs wehre Stewart turns to a camera behind his drumkit, and starts talking to it, while he continues playing!
Also there's the film Stewart made...oh, maybe it was about 10 years ago, called Everyone Stares, which was sort of a video memoir, made up of home movie footage that he and a few others shot, with his doing a narration I guess explaining his perspective on the band. That's where I remember first hearing him talk about growing up in Beirut, and how it really touched him during the early 80's when the band were on top of the world, and he'd see and read in the news about all the strife in the place where he lived his childhood.
He also talks about how one of the things that started causing it to go sour was, at a certain point, Sting was bringing in songs that were more or less finished, ie not leaving room for Stewart and Andy to make arrangement contributions.
I also love the bit where he talks about how in the early days, they were viewed by the press or whomever as being "fake punks" who had jumped on the punk rock bandwagon for opportunistic reasons. He then says something like, "After all, I played in one of those disreputable prog rock bands, how could I be a 'real' punk?!".
They were certainly a weird mix of punk, reggae and just great songcraft.
That was "all the rage" in '83-'84 as Rush's Grace Under Pressure tour concert filmed in Montreal had a lot of audience shots too. Seems to go back and forth over the years between showing more or less audience.
well, i grew up with them. what can i say? an unmistakeable band. lifeson and lee (big IF here) should talk to stewart copeland!
One of -phenomenally- many good rock/pop bands of the 80s.
Not too much of a fan anymore, although I still like enough of it. I could never stand Sting's solo material.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
yeah, Andy spoke in his book that both of them were often at each other's throat... Notice that he's in the middle of the fight and doesn't budge (OK, he had a couple years maturity more than the other two, but this was enough for the change of generation... Somehow Sting and Stu are both more brawling punks than the peace-loving hippies Andy
some of what Andy wrote in his book made me think of what Cream was living: Bruce/Sting bassists and Copeland/Baker drummers fighting/disputing constantly with Clapton/Summers guitarists arbitrating or taking lost bullets.
However, unlike drummer Ginger being the arrogant jerk, I'd point even more bassist Sting being the arrogant one, probably because he wrote most of the stuff in the band (Baker seldomly wrote tracks)
I don't think Sting really respects Cope that much... He knows he's doing good music with him the way Baker did with Bruce, but that's about it.
TBH, For outside Police stuff, I'm not fond of Curved Air or anything else Cope has done after
For Andy, it's different, but there isn't that much to judge before hand.
Dantalion (a few singles),New Animals (one album) and Soft Machine (nothing recorded) add up to maybe 3 vinyl side ... and much of his first part of his career seems to be in the trail of George "Zoot Money" Bruno.
When he did come back to the UK, it's funny that it's the guy (Ayers) who got him fired from the Machine that gave him a chance to return to the music industry (guilt maybe).
Later on Summers would do some interesting solo stuff, but nothing that I've deemed worthy to keep forever on my shelves.
Sting, I've never been enticed to buy anything he's done solo, but I alwaus made sure I borrowed his albums from the library system... which only confirmed I was right in not buying the albums, despite liking some of the stuff on them.
Last edited by Trane; 11-21-2017 at 05:35 AM.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
Peanuts......
Peanuts.....
I'll never forget when my cousin wanted to go to a Police show, and told her parents, my aunt and uncle, "The Police are going to be at the Spectrum next week."
Upon which, my Mom responded, concerned, "Why?? What's going on?"
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
^ She probably thought the offender who threw the snowball at Santa had been identified.
Yeah, if you look at Ghost in the Machine vs Synchronicity the majority of the songs that Sting wrote for the later didn't have as much room for the others to weave in their own magic.He also talks about how one of the things that started causing it to go sour was, at a certain point, Sting was bringing in songs that were more or less finished, ie not leaving room for Stewart and Andy to make arrangement contributions.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
I haven't seen the Grace Under Pressure video in so long (something like 3 decades, other than the clip of Red Sector A that VH-1 Classic used to show regularly), I remember next to nothing about it.
The Synchronicity Concert was directed by Godley & Creme, and so one can only surmise they thought they were being "artistic" or maybe even "avant garde" by making the audience the stars of the film as much as the band themselves.
Andy had more than "a couple years" on the other two. He was nearly 9 years years older than either Sting and nearly 10 years older than Sting. When Every Breath You Take was such a big hit, he was already 40 years old, and he'll be 75 in just a few weeks (he was born on New Year's Eve 1942, Sting was born in October 51, Stewart in June 52).
I don't know why, but for some reason I'm finding the fact that Andy was that old when he joined The Police a little mind boggling. I mean, I grew up listening to a lot of musicians who are in that age range (eg Pete Townshend, Keith Richards) and some who were even older (like Chuck Berry, Little Richard, etc), but somehow being told precisely that Andy was already old enough to be a "boring old fart" in punk rock circles (maybe another reason some viewed them as poseurs at the time) is a bit startling.
I didn't realize Andy had written a book...well, I knew he had put out (at least one) book of his photography (all three band members, as well many of their inner circle were avid photographers, with Andy more or less go pro with it, I guess, he's had several exhibitions over the years), but I gather you're talking about some kind of memoir? I'll have to look for that.
Interesting, yeah I can see that sort of parallel there. One wonders how early the whole love/hate/whatever thing between Stewart and Sting began, and what Andy must have thought when he realized what was going on between the other two..."What have I gotten myself into?!".some of what Andy wrote in his book made me think of what Cream was living: Bruce/Sting bassists and Copeland/Baker drummers fighting/disputing constantly with Clapton/Summers guitarists arbitrating or taking lost bullets.
BTW, does he talk in the book about how he got Henri Padovani, the band's original guitarist, fired and then took his place?
I do get the vague sense that Sting might have been a bit of putz, from some of the comments in the liner notes of the boxset, as well as a few comments made on the various Wiki pages for the respective albums. There's apparently a couple of Andy's songs that he refused to play bass on because he didn't think much of the compositions, and he refused to sing the vocal on a third one, Someone To Talk To, which was the B-side of, I think, King Of Pain. I kinda wonder if he wasn't the one who was pushing Stewart's buttons, as it were, which led to the fisticuffs.However, unlike drummer Ginger being the arrogant jerk, I'd point even more bassist Sting being the arrogant one, probably because he wrote most of the stuff in the band (Baker seldomly wrote tracks)
I don't think Sting really respects Cope that much... He knows he's doing good music with him the way Baker did with Bruce, but that's about it.
Another worthy point is, I suspect that Stewart and Sting may have also each viewed The Police as "my band", rather than "our band". There's a comment in the liner notes to the effect that Stewart initially believed he had talked Sting into moving to London "to be in my new band", when in fact Sting had already decided to relocate with his previous band, Last Exit. Apparently, the only reason Sting ended up hooking up with Stewart was because Last Exit broke up when one of the musicians backed out of the "Let's move to London and break into the Big Time" maneuver.
And although Sting wrote the majority of the material ont he albums, Stewart also had a few songs where his name alone appears in the byline, including both sides of their first single and three songs on Reggatta De Blanc. It's been said that songwriting credits are one of the chief reasons why bands break up, and I could maybe see it being a issue where Stewart felt that more of his songs should be on the album. I could even see that being an issue with Andy as well (though I think he made a grievous error by putting forth Mother, of all things, for inclusion on Synchronicity, especially since Someone To Talk To is a much better song, yet it got relegated to B-side status).
Well, I like psychedelic music, that's why I'm curious about New Animals and Dantalion's Chariot. I believe a Dantalion's Chariot song was used on one of the Nuggets compilations, a reissue of which was reviewed in Guitar Player at some point. The reviewers at GP were fond of throwing in facetious wisecracks, and int his case, it was something to the effect that the guitar playing on this one track "Suggests a pre-stereo chorus Andy Summers...wait a minute, that is Andy Summers!".For Andy, it's different, but there isn't that much to judge before hand.
Dantalion (a few singles),New Animals (one album) and Soft Machine (nothing recorded) add up to maybe 3 vinyl side ...
I like to refer to that stacked fifths suspended 9th chords that he favored as "The Andy Summers chord". In fact, I saw a band at one of the fests I went to, I think it was the time I went to 3RP, anyway, I remember telling the guitarist I liked the one song with all the Andy Summers chords in it. It took him a minute to figure out what he was talking about, but then once he did, he knew which song I was talking about.
Yeah, I get the impression they were school chums who decided to "break into music" together. My impression is that initially they were playing "R&B" music, before going psychedelic with Dantalion's Chariot.and much of his first part of his career seems to be in the trail of George "Zoot Money" Bruno.
Yeah, I think I had seen him referenced as having been in Soft Machine early on (back when they were still THE Soft Machine), but I didn't realize AYers was the one who got him fired from that group.When he did come back to the UK, it's funny that it's the guy (Ayers) who got him fired from the Machine that gave him a chance to return to the music industry (guilt maybe).
Later on Summers would do some interesting solo stuff, but nothing that I've deemed worthy to keep forever on my shelves.
That reminds me of the time, as a 9 or 10 year old< I went to the library and asked the librarian if they had any records by The Police. She thought I was asking about recordings of actual police radio chatter or whatever. I had to explain to her that The Police was a rock group. This was circa 82, I think possibly just before Synchronicity came out.
Yeah, certainly songs like Synchronicity I and Walking In Your Footsteps appear to be built on programmed synthesizer parts that Sting apparently had on the demo. Once you've got something like that as the song's foundation, that kind of hems in what the rest of the band is going to do. You can't just say, "Oh, I think the tempo should be a little quicker" or "I thikn it would sound in this key", because well, the track is already there. In a way, I imagine it's similar to what Yes went through circa Big Generator, where Trevor Rabin said he and Jon Anderson clashed over the fully written songs Trevor was bringing in and expecting the band to play and sing as-is (apparently meaning Jon wanted to futz with the material, certainly the vocal melodies and lyrics, if not the overall arrangements, and that upset Trevor at the time, though I have the impression Jon was pulling the same "This is how I expect my songs to sound when you guys play them" dren back in the 70's).
In Everybody Stares, Stewart makes it sound like the "Sting wasn't bringing in half written songs anymore" thing began on Ghost In The Machine.
Having said that, I've also heard that the guitar riff on Every Breath You Take was Andy's creation, it wasn't on the demo that Sting brought to the band, and apparently that became a bone of contention when Puff Daddy did that thing where he sampled Andy's guitar riff on whichever song he did that was a a massive hit. But since Andy's name isn't in the byline, he didn't get any of the publishing royalties (which reportedly amounted to millions), even though it was basically his contribution that Puff Daddy appropriated. Lesson learned: if you have to hire a lawyer and go to court and make sure your contribution is reflected in the publishing, do it!
My new band here in China is currently covering 'Walking on the Moon' and 'Message in a Bottle.' Both are tremendously fun songs to play, lend themselves to extensive jamming, and require a bit of care and attention to detail with respect to Summers' guitar parts especially to really nail. As regards the Police themselves, a genuinely great live band, but they never made a consistently good album - the last two getting the closest. And Sting's pompous, mannered, and unbelievably pretentious 'serious artist' persona is pretty hard to stomach at the best of times. I always thought Richard Thompson had the last word on that when he wrote 'Here Comes Geordie.' It's certainly possible to believe that both Copeland and Sting were individuals that could start a fight by themselves in a locked room, so it's not hard to see why the band had a distinctly finite lifespan. At their best, though, the were one of the GREAT bands of the 80s.
I didn't realise he was as old as that - he's the same age as Mick Jagger. But 5 years younger than punk stalwart Jet Black of the Stranglers.
Other old farts:
Little Richard 84
Jerry Lee Lewis 82
Bill Wyman 81
Jet Black 79
Ginger Baker 78
Ringo Starr 77
Bob Dylan 76
Eric Burdon 76
Charlie Watts 76
John Cale 75
Paul McCartney 75
Brian Wilson 75
Mick Jagger 74
Andy Summers 74
Maureen Tucker 73
Jeff Beck 73
Keith Richards 73
Jimmy Page 73
Neil Young 72
Ritchie Blackmore 72
Debbie Harry 72
John Densmore 72
Eric Clapton 72
John Paul Jones 71
Robbie Krieger 71
Robert Fripp 71
Ian Anderson 70
Iggy Pop 70
I never realised Bill Wyman was that old. And Debbie Harry is the same age as Neil Young...
A great band, with its own unique sound, and ahead of their times in many ways. They still sound fresh and contemporary.
Obviously excellent musicians, all three. But - no surprise there - I have a soft spot for Stewart's drumming. He's such a delight to listen to, all these little tricks he pulls in the most unexpected places.
I like their rockier, punkier first two records the most. They begun to water down their music after that, much too early imo. But it did make them rich, so not a problem to them.
hated them when they were popular.... started liking them after they broke up. had the vinyl of '86 Best Of....
but got the box set when it came out. Copeland & Summers were both under rated because of the attention Sting got.
the box set give you the complete Police package. lots of great tunes hidden in there.
yeah, I knew Andy's age difference , but I didn't think it was that much older (or I forgot he said that in the book). I mean Cope had some experience prior joining them in Curved Air, so I gathered some 5y max.
Yup, the punkers didn't really accept The Police because of their age, their virtuosity and their prior experience.µ
But then again, they didn't accept The Stranglers for roughly the same issue (the presence of KB and the age of Jet Black, who was 30 sumthin', then). The reasons why the punk did go see The Stranglers was that bassist Burnell would be the punkiest of them all, always brawling with someone at every concert.
Andy's book was a good read, but TBH, I read diagonally after the Fripp collabs... and I actually read the book that far because of those albums... The reason why I had bought the book wazs prior to the Police and wanted to know more about the pre-Police band Strontium 90 with bassist Mike Howlett in it...
AFAIK, the pictures and filming freak was not Andy, but Stewart... he's the one that published the visuals, I believe.
The "my band" thing was indeed going both ways... Sting because he was clearly the most successful songwriter and singer, but Stewart probably thought that his producer/brother Miles was instrumental in getting the band going (not sure it was a determinant factor, though). I'd have to reread the passage leading to The Police, but I would say that the initiative was about equal between Sting and Stu, as Andy almost declines any at all.
As for the internal constant feud, you can clearly read Andy's thoughts on his face as the other two are fighting in front of a camera (even funny if you did read the book, as it comes as a total confirmation)... He just stayed stoic (someone had to), and was obviously determined to stay on the right bandwagon while it lasted...
His 69 to 74 years were terrible in terms of income, BTW... He was so broke after TSM's gig that he couldn't return to the UK, and he phoned Zoot to get hired in the relocated Animals (in Frisco)... and when that gig was up, he was still so broke that he stayed there, got married and went to uni... his wife paid his California university music study degree
Indeed, Zoot is the one who got him into the Animals the album after he joined them himself: Zoot played on Everyone and Love Is, while Andy only on the latter... Neither those two albums are good though (Winds and especially Twain are rather good albums). So clearly ZM was the leader of the two (GB & AS) , though. Not sure they were equals or school buddies, as ZM had his own band (Big Roll Band) and Andy wasn't part of the original line-up. )He had a much bigger 60's career than Andy had , but of course that dramatically changed a decade later.
Ayers didn't like the jazz direction Summers was pushing TSM in, so he made a blackmail to Robert and Mike: him or Andy... and of course, he got Wyatt to do the dirty job halfway through their US stay... Worst part of it is that Ayers left the band at the end of it... So I guess he thought he owed one to Summers.
Yes, Summers said in his book that he had major gripes and guilt about leaving Padovani out... He seems to hint that it was Stewart the most adamant to go on without him.
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
I remember hearing Roxanne on the radio in when I was a junior in high school, and specifically thinking "What the hell IS this? Never heard anything like that before!". Loved the band from the get, but regrettably never got to see them live. Just going by what's available on video, though, it must have been something, especially before the arena/stadium days. Favorite album is still Regatta de Blanc, although any of them can emerge as number one depending on my mood.
David
Happy with what I have to be happy with.
Yeah, I knew that Bill Wyman was a few years older than the rest of the Stones. Debbie Harry had been in a band that actually made an album circa 68 called Wind In The Willows. Reportedly, there more copies of the record returned, unopened than actually went out to the stores, apparently because radio stations, record reviewers, etc traded in their promo copies, without even bothering to open the cellophane! So yeah, I knew she had to be in that same age bracket as well.
re: Andy and photography,
Around the time of Synchronicity, Andy put out a book called Throb. I remember this distinctly, because they made a big deal about it on MTV, I think it was Martha Quinn or whichever one of the DJ's pointing out that it was a book of "serious" photography, with only a couple music related pictures in it. And according to Wikipedia, he's had more than 35 photography exhibitions over the years.
Chris, Tenth Planet released an LP of the complete (I think) Dantalion's Chariot. It can be tracked down on the second hand market.
Chariot Rising. It's actually reasonably good too, although less so than some of those they're often likened to, such as July, Factory, The Creation or The Attack.
There's also a recording of Copeland's obscure pre-Curved project, Frolk Haven; At the Apex of High. It's mainly percussion-based, instrumental experimental stuff fairly induced by the Cale/Riley Church of Anthrax venture. Interesting as such, albeit not exactly very notable.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
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