FEATURED ALBUM: Van der Graaf Generator - Godbluff

[Bucka001]

Quiet Zone made me a fan of Van/Hammill. Great, great album! The internet seems to disagree, though. There are a lot of negative or lukewarm reviews out there.

Yeah, they really sound modern and mature on that album. It hasn't aged at all, very contemporary and clued-in. I think some people just want it to sound like the Jaxon / Banton VdGG incarnation (the "classic" lineup) so, because those two aren't on it (save for a Jaxon guest appearance here and there), some fans say it sounds more like a PH solo album. I totally disagree with that, and consider it to be a one-off classic for VdG. It's too bad they never put out a second studio album.

[spacefreak]

Quiet Zone made me a fan of Van/Hammill. Great, great album! The internet seems to disagree, though. There are a lot of negative or lukewarm reviews out there.

It is an excellent album and my gateway to VDGG. The very first I purchased upon release. It made such an impression on me, that next week I went for The Least We Can Do... and Still Life and was hooked everafter... In a month I had all their discography.

[yesstiles]

Great album, but "Pawn Hearts" beats it.

[Chuck AzEee!]

In the order of my Top 12 (13) Progressive Rock albums, Godbluff falls right behind Lark's Tongue In Aspic and before In A Glass House and Benefit. A phenomenal album.

Charles

[Progbear]

Yeah, they really sound modern and mature on that album. It hasn't aged at all, very contemporary and clued-in. I think some people just want it to sound like the Jaxon / Banton VdGG incarnation (the "classic" lineup) so, because those two aren't on it (save for a Jaxon guest appearance here and there), some fans say it sounds more like a PH solo album. I totally disagree with that, and consider it to be a one-off classic for VdG. It's too bad they never put out a second studio album.

I still enjoy this one and ignore all the voices telling me to dislike it. It does sound more like a Hammill solo album, but I don’t care. It has a fine energy to it, I like what Grahame Smith brings to the table and “The Wave” is lovely. I remember someone saying that they didn’t like “Yellow Fever/Cat’s Eye” because it sounded like a Steve Harley/Cockney Rebel song, which I thought was a ridiculous complaint.

[Levgan]

I remember someone saying that they didn’t like “Yellow Fever/Cat’s Eye” because it sounded like a Steve Harley/Cockney Rebel song, which I thought was a ridiculous complaint.

To be honest, I can sort of hear the comparison (violin + theatrical vocals), but sounding like Cockney Rebel isn't a bad thing in my book at all.

If there's one VdGG studio album I couldn't fully get into, it's World Record, not Quiet Zone / Pleasure Dome. The latter is unique in their canon, I find it interesting and largely successful.

[Scrotum Scissor]

sounding like Cockney Rebel isn't a bad thing in my book at all.

Certainly not. Early Harley/CR were as anomalous to their respective domain as VdGG were to their own, and the first two CR records (especially) remain highly interesting listens and/or studies. It always puzzled me these few recent years ahy the hipster community didn't Discover an album like The Psychomodo. They were as cerebral as Bowie and Roxy at that point, and arguably the most singularly "intellectual" combo of the three. Perhaps that's the problem precisely, I dunno. But when listening to songs like "Cavaliers" or "Hideaway" nowadays, it's simply fascinating how timeless they appear in sound and attitude. As with much Hammill.

[Trane]

Of the VdGG LPs, I rank Godbluff fourth after Pawn Hearts, H to He, and The Least....., and prefer Chameleon, Silent Corner, and In Camera to it.

OL, it looks like this thread is running out of steam halfway down the third page, so the time's come for the rankings

Faves:
The Least We Can Do
Godbluff
Trisector

Almost as good
Pawn Hearts
Still Life
Silent Corner
Do Not Disturb

Half a notch below
H to He
In Camera
Alt (yes, I like it)

Yet another half notch (so a full notch in total)
Vital (the only live album I'll rate)
Chameleon
Present

OK
TQZ/TPD
World Record
Aerosol Grey Machine
A Grounding In Numbers

[Levgan]

It always puzzled me these few recent years ahy the hipster community didn't Discover an album like The Psychomodo. They were as cerebral as Bowie and Roxy at that point, and arguably the most singularly "intellectual" combo of the three.

Yup, the first two CR albums are certainly on par with early Roxy etc. Maybe it's the intellectual component that explains why they don't have the same exposure, as you say. But maybe it's just lack of longevity – Bowie still had a few amazing reinventions ahead of him at the time of Ziggy, and while I'm not a big fan of later Roxy Music LPs, it's hard to argue that Bryan Ferry carved a niche for himself. Harley's heyday, on the other hand, lasted basically a couple of years, as fine a songwriter and performer as he was.

[at least 100 dead]

[...]the time's come for the rankings

I'll play. Sticking to the pre-reformation discography...

Couldn't do without:
Pawn Hearts (1971)
Godbluff (1975)
The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome (1977)

Could (but don't wanna) do without:
Still Life (1976)
H to He, Who Am the Only One (1970)

Have done without:
The Aerosol Grey Machine (1969)
The Least We Can Do Is Wave to Each Other (1970)
World Record (1976)

The last three in the list, while flawed IMO, do contain some good material, particularly "Afterwards", "Necromancer" (which apparently wasn't on the original LP), "Darkness", the lovely pastoral "Out of My Book" and *drum roll* "Meurglys III" (but only the first few minutes, not the jam).

[Zappathustra]

I gave it a couple of spins yesterday and, yes, there is no reason why Godbluff shouldn't be considered their best album. It's perfect from beginning to end.

But the most stunning thing, imo, is the way they reinvented themselves after Pawn Hearts, which must have felt like an unsurpassable artistic pinnacle. Where do you go after this? Add the complete lack of recognition from audiences, and others might have quit the game altogether.

And yet there was still so much to be expressed, you get this sense of inevitability with Godbluff, like there is something very urgent to be conveyed, something that needs to be heard. And it is conveyed in the most distilled way, compositions of great complexity that seem to have been drawn from somewhere as complete wholes, no patching up here, you cannot change a single note without everything collapsing. Amazing truly.

[bRETT]

Yeah, they really sound modern and mature on that album. It hasn't aged at all, very contemporary and clued-in. .

But then, you couldn't ask for anything more left-field in 1977 England than a rock album whose lead instruments were acoustic guitar and violin. Funny how they went from the lighter touch of this one to the punk onslaught of Vital (which may be my favorite Hammill album).

[Bucka001]

But then, you couldn't ask for anything more left-field in 1977 England than a rock album whose lead instruments were acoustic guitar and violin. Funny how they went from the lighter touch of this one to the punk onslaught of Vital (which may be my favorite Hammill album).

Yeah, it's great how it's the same band again (on QZ and Vital [save for the addition of cello]) but it sounds like two completely different groups. A lot of that is down to Hammill's singing. On QZ, I feel like his mindset was that his back was to the wall and he had to really deliver. He's makes the comment in The Box liner notes that "There was no time for Shirley Bassey, thank you," which I found interesting as it's an acknowledgement of his sometime penchant for over the top melodrama in his singing. QZ is an album I can play to anyone and not have to worry about the look of horror when they hear the vox. He reigned it in. On Vital, there is no such reigning in, it's possibly his harshest vocal perf on record (barring Arrow from Godbluff and maybe a few others). I absolutely *LOVE* Vital and his singing on it, but it's nothing like it is on QZ. Also, the bass on Vital is just overtime on the distortion / fuzz. Awesome. It's not like that so much on QZ. Adore both albums.

QZ to Vital is as different as Pawn Hearts to Godbluff. Wonderful that they were the same bands on those transitions yet took such chances that many wouldn't know it.

[per anporth]

Brilliant also that Vital was recorded at the Marquee Club, the spiritual home of punk rock, in the very midst of punk's moment.

[Progbear]

Certainly not. Early Harley/CR were as anomalous to their respective domain as VdGG were to their own, and the first two CR records (especially) remain highly interesting listens and/or studies. It always puzzled me these few recent years ahy the hipster community didn't Discover an album like The Psychomodo. They were as cerebral as Bowie and Roxy at that point, and arguably the most singularly "intellectual" combo of the three. Perhaps that's the problem precisely, I dunno. But when listening to songs like "Cavaliers" or "Hideaway" nowadays, it's simply fascinating how timeless they appear in sound and attitude. As with much Hammill.

I am a bit of two minds about Harley. On the minus side, his voice is affected to an almost comical degree, and he’s pretentious to a degree that even the most self-indulgent progger would find galling. That said, “Sebastian” and “Death Trip” are epic to a degree that many prog bands would seriously envy, and I love the flow of the entire Psychomodo album. He/they kind of fell off after that, though The Best Years of Our Lives is still pretty solid and, surprisingly, Love’s a Prima Donna is worthwhile. When I heard it was a concept album about love I thought I’d pass...until someone said Harley was inspired by Todd Rundgren’s A Wizard/A True Star. It shows! The album lacks consistency, but the entire A-side is excellent and it ends strong. It definitely sags on the B-side for the most part (was the cover of “Here Comes the Sun” strictly necessary?).

[Scrotum Scissor]

[Harley's] voice is affected to an almost comical degree, and he’s pretentious to a degree that even the most self-indulgent progger would find galling. That said, “Sebastian” and “Death Trip” are epic to a degree that many prog bands would seriously envy, and I love the flow of the entire Psychomodo album. He/they kind of fell off after that

All true.

But I think one of the main reasons why he didn't find (particular) appeal with either the "progressive", the "art-school glam" or the current "hipster" communities is that his antics of enactment were less about a theatrical personae character (like a Nadir or a Thin White Duke) than that of an actual star-of-vanity complex. The Harley figure performing in a featherboa or a female furcoat donning lipgloss and mascara probably appeared more like a personal transgression than an artistic one, especially seeing how many of his early followers already knew his name from his stints as a journalist and writer. But the very scope and scale of staged emotion in "Death Trip" foreruns the routines of - say - Queen by several years.

[spacefreak]

But the very scope and scale of staged emotion in "Death Trip" foreruns the routines of - say - Queen by several years.

Which is one of the better examples of theatrics into progressive rock (because it's a progressive rock piece indeed).

[Scrotum Scissor]

It seems they have developed a 'one hit wonder' reputation (the Number 1 one!), despite the obvious excellence of 'Sebastian', 'Tumbling Down', 'Death Trip' etc.

Yup, but what a 'one hit' - and who wouldn't have wanted that to serve as such? It's a near-perfect illusion of a simple song, in that all of its intelligence lay as covert texture, lyrically as well as musically. Try playing this to those without a mind beyond the ear and witness them mockingly go "Oo-ooh la-la-lah!" without realizing which part is being mocked; it's revealing again and again.

In fact, the "Make Me Smile" single is indeed one of the moments where there actually does appear a sense of reminiscence towards Hammill. More than the "ladylike" voice, I mean.

[per anporth]

There's a thing that "pop" music does when you're young, & when you listen from the basis of a near tabula rasa, & the music etches itself into your bodily being...listening to Make Me Smile here, now, for the first time in years & years, the visceral effect of transporting me back to being, as a kid, there, then - it was like a whole memory passing like a cloak over me, a shiver passing through me (that madeleiney thing that Proust was banging on about).

And something that came back was that remarkable weaving together of mid-70s drab & mid-70s exotic - the feather boa & the limp long hair, the flat cap & the almost operatically dilated vowels. I remember thinking he was always something of a poor man's Bowie, that instead of his music tending towards Eno, Berlin & Cluster/Harmonia, it was destined for the Hope & Anchor, pub rock, Nick Lowe & Dave Edmunds. But that may be hindsight...

[infandous]

For me, Still Life and Pawn Hearts are the absolute best VDGG. That said, Godbluff is a perfect album and only a hair below those two for me. Heard all the albums leading up to it first, and was actually kind of disappointed when I first heard it. Over time though I came to love it. The DVD performance really drove home the greatness of it for me as well.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

[aith01]

I am a bit of two minds about Harley. On the minus side, his voice is affected to an almost comical degree, and he’s pretentious to a degree that even the most self-indulgent progger would find galling. That said, “Sebastian” and “Death Trip” are epic to a degree that many prog bands would seriously envy, and I love the flow of the entire Psychomodo album. He/they kind of fell off after that, though The Best Years of Our Lives is still pretty solid and, surprisingly, Love’s a Prima Donna is worthwhile. When I heard it was a concept album about love I thought I’d pass...until someone said Harley was inspired by Todd Rundgren’s A Wizard/A True Star. It shows! The album lacks consistency, but the entire A-side is excellent and it ends strong. It definitely sags on the B-side for the most part (was the cover of “Here Comes the Sun” strictly necessary?).

All true.

But I think one of the main reasons why he didn't find (particular) appeal with either the "progressive", the "art-school glam" or the current "hipster" communities is that his antics of enactment were less about a theatrical personae character (like a Nadir or a Thin White Duke) than that of an actual star-of-vanity complex. The Harley figure performing in a featherboa or a female furcoat donning lipgloss and mascara probably appeared more like a personal transgression than an artistic one, especially seeing how many of his early followers already knew his name from his stints as a journalist and writer. But the very scope and scale of staged emotion in "Death Trip" foreruns the routines of - say - Queen by several years.

Interesting! I thought I was pretty "up" on the UK glam scene, but somehow this stuff was completely unknown to me. And looking up Love's A Prima Donna, I was surprised to find that Duncan Mackay was the keyboardist! Should've remembered that.

Anyway, color me intrigued... I'm gonna check it out.

[Conti]

Inspired by this thread, I listened to Godbluff again yesterday. This is such a flawless album that I almost have no words to describe it. My 8-year son was with me in the car after I picked him up at school and then Arrow came in. I called his attention to the “screaming singer” and he was clearly jaw dropped with the intensity and heaviness of it all. In fact, when Hammill tries to reach the upper register notes of the melody (in screaming mode) it never fails to send shivers down my spine. It’s so intense and evil that it is almost palpable.

I’m not even sure Godbluff is my favorite album by VdGG (Still Life is THE ONE, most likely), but I could easily say it is possibly the best album ever made by any band. IMO, of course. OK, next week I’ll probably say the same thing about some Magma album, but that’s as far as I’d go.

Genius band, I hope I’m able to see them some day in a live setting.

[at least 100 dead]

Inspired by this thread, I listened to Godbluff again yesterday. This is such a flawless album that I almost have no words to describe it. My 8-year son was with me in the car after I picked him up at school and then Arrow came in. I called his attention to the “screaming singer” and he was clearly jaw dropped with the intensity and heaviness of it all. In fact, when Hammill tries to reach the upper register notes of the melody (in screaming mode) it never fails to send shivers down my spine. It’s so intense and evil that it is almost palpable.

Hammill’s singing on "Arrow" is the vocal equivalent of Hendrix producing feedback or Pharoah Sanders overblowing; there are moments when he’s pushing himself to the limit - the point where the voice cracks. I love when that happens. One of my favorite vocal performances this side of Merry Clayton’s solo in “Gimme Shelter”.

[Buddhabreath]

^^^

Agreed. I think this point is lost on those who don't like VDGG because of the vocals. But I can understand the turnoff, perhaps it's an acquired taste. Having listened to many bootleg recordings back in the day dating back to the early 70's it's clear that PH (or the band for that matter) were no always tight or in control vocally or musically - but that can happen when you're pushing the boundaries, part of the fun is that the wheels can come of the cart at any time... all IMO of course.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I think this point is lost on those who don't like VDGG because of the vocals. But I can understand the turnoff, perhaps it's an acquired taste.

True. And one of the very reasons why VdGG and Hammill in general are considered "fringe" and tend to find appeal with audiences usually into more "out" orientations of (progressive) rock. Hammill's aggressive vocal attack were quite singular in the 70s, although you'd find similarly rabid takes with singers like Chapman (Family), Fella (Jumbo) and - in Britain - Roger Wootton (Comus) and the guy in Tea & Symphony. These weren't the 'hard rock' yells of high or bottom, but an actual charge of force. Hammill seemingly had several different voices; the soft, whispery-like; the more unnerving mid-power tone; the pseudo-operatic; the frantic and manic. That's more than what could be said of most vocalists in the 70s, and not least in UK progressive rock.