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Thread: Remix of A Momentary Lapse of Reason

  1. #26
    I've never understood the problem with the sound of Momentary Lapse of Reason. It's a wonderfully produced album and the synth sounds are gorgeous. I think most of the actual synth playing was done by Patrick "Live to Tell" Leonard, whose prog credentials were established when he was the keyboardist/leading light of Trillion. I think most of the synth sounds on Lapse are from K-series Kurzweils, presumably the K250. The K-series were some of the best synths produced in the 80s, indeed both warm and organic sounding.

    NO need for a remix, imo.

  2. #27
    Gilmour’s intention with the new version appears to not so much correct what was «*wrong*» as to add more actual Wright and Mason where there was so little on the original release - make it more of a «*legitimate*» Floyd album in this respect.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    I've never understood the problem with the sound of Momentary Lapse of Reason. It's a wonderfully produced album and the synth sounds are gorgeous. I think most of the actual synth playing was done by Patrick "Live to Tell" Leonard, whose prog credentials were established when he was the keyboardist/leading light of Trillion. I think most of the synth sounds on Lapse are from K-series Kurzweils, presumably the K250. The K-series were some of the best synths produced in the 80s, indeed both warm and organic sounding.

    NO need for a remix, imo.
    Leonard was also the producer and features heavily all over Amused to Death (which I'm sure you already knew, but others in the thread might not ).

    I don't disagree about the sound of MLOR...it works for me.
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  4. #29
    NEARfest Officer Emeritus Nearfest2's Avatar
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    From July 9, 2011...

    Super Delxue Edition (SDE): Will A Momentary Lapse of Reason be remixed for an Immersion box set? David Gilmour has mentioned before his interest in “mixing the 80s out of it”

    Andy Jackson (AJ): Interesting point. A Momentary Lapse of Reason is an odd one out inasmuch as it’s the only album that was trying to be ‘of the time’, which now means it sounds dated, rather than timeless. We have started this process a while ago, doing new drums with Nick with a much more “Pink Floyd classic” approach. If & when we’ll pick it up I don’t know.

    SDE: (reponse to above): Very interesting…. one assumes that if there was to be an Immersion Edition of A Momentary Lapse of Reason then this process would probably be completed. Is it just the drums that have been redone so far?

    AJ: Yes and yes. It was our intention to remove some of the 80’s synths and get more Rick hammond on it. Obviously not possible for him to do it now, but we started the process of pulling some of his playing from gigs of those songs. Just a lot of editing/syncing to do on that, but it should work

    And this....

    "Since Rick Wright has passed it's impossible to re-record the keyboard tracks, however Pink Floyd recorded every concert on that tour and Rick had switched back to playing Hammond Organ and electric piano in concert (instead of synths). So they've been scouring the tapes and pulling Rick's live rig sound, those live performance keyboard tracks are now being mixed in to replace the dated 80s sounding synths."
    Chad

  5. #30
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd be very interested in hearing that.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  6. #31
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    I think it is fine the way it is. It's from the 80s, its' supposed to sound of it's time. Doing this would just be kinda weird.

    Can we go back and use 80s sounds on a remix of Dark Side too?

  7. #32
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    By the way, is it worth me buying the 2011 remaster of AMLOR? My cd is an older issue but still still sounds great...

  8. #33
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    I couldn't tell any difference.

  9. #34
    Member zorknapp's Avatar
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    I'm always interested in hearing alternative versions of songs I enjoy, so if this remixing happens for this album, I'd certainly give it a listen.

    Mike
    Tabletop Genesis - A Genesis and solo career focused podcast, featuring the opinions of Tom Roche, Stacy Godfrey, Simon Godfrey, and Mike Lord - Listen on I-Tunes, or at http://tabletopgenesis.com/ Twitter: @genesistabletop Facebook: www.facebook.com/TabletopGenesis

  10. #35
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nearfest2 View Post
    "Since Rick Wright has passed it's impossible to re-record the keyboard tracks, however Pink Floyd recorded every concert on that tour and Rick had switched back to playing Hammond Organ and electric piano in concert (instead of synths). So they've been scouring the tapes and pulling Rick's live rig sound, those live performance keyboard tracks are now being mixed in to replace the dated 80s sounding synths."
    Here's a question, just for fun: if they completed this remix, would you be ok with that being the only available version of it for sale, or do you think it should be sold along with the original mix, and if so, why?

    I would certainly want to hear the remix, but if I had to choose between one or the other, I think I'd go with the same mix I bought in 1987. Well, my housemate bought it, actually.

  11. #36
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    Like many, I consider sounds from the 80s to be terribly dated, even stuff I used to enjoy back then. I've often wondered why that is. Can it be explained from a technical standpoint?
    Why is it that while we can instantly recognize that a song is from the 60s or 70s, it sounds acceptable to our ears (except maybe some stuff from the late 70s). On the other hand, most of what was recorded in the 80S (and early 90s) now sounds embarrassing. I'd love to see a rational explanation of this phenomenon that most of us have experienced.
    Not just a Genesis fanboy.

  12. #37
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    I hope Squids will weigh in on this, seeing as how he produced some kind of Nick Mason drum sound library - I don't understand what it is exactly. Maybe there's a set of 1980s Nick Mason drum sounds, or maybe Squids discussed the drums on AMLOR with Nick.

  13. #38
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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  14. #39
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    I've never understood the problem with the sound of Momentary Lapse of Reason. It's a wonderfully produced album and the synth sounds are gorgeous. I think most of the actual synth playing was done by Patrick "Live to Tell" Leonard, whose prog credentials were established when he was the keyboardist/leading light of Trillion. I think most of the synth sounds on Lapse are from K-series Kurzweils, presumably the K250. The K-series were some of the best synths produced in the 80s, indeed both warm and organic sounding.

    NO need for a remix, imo.
    Right there with you, mon! I dug it in '87, and I like it as is. Swapping out the synth sounds wouldn't help AMLoR at all. "One Slip" just wouldn't work without those sequences.

  15. #40
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Here's a question, just for fun: if they completed this remix, would you be ok with that being the only available version of it for sale, or do you think it should be sold along with the original mix, and if so, why?

    I would certainly want to hear the remix, but if I had to choose between one or the other, I think I'd go with the same mix I bought in 1987. Well, my housemate bought it, actually.
    I'm never a fan of the "new version" being the only version available.

    I understand the logistics of having every version available, but as a fan, I don't care about that. I'm looking at you, George Lucas.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post

    My dislike of certain 80s keyboard sounds is visceral but it's a personal taste thing.

    That huge reverb beloved by many producers in the 80s also sounds awful to me now.
    That's my point actually. Many of us have that same visceral dislike of 80s synth sounds and heavy reverb, so it may be more than just a matter of personal taste. Why is it that these things have grown really old, while a mellotron can still be appreciated for what it is even though it's a really bad imitation of an orchestra?
    Not just a Genesis fanboy.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I'm never a fan of the "new version" being the only version available.

    I understand the logistics of having every version available, but as a fan, I don't care about that. I'm looking at you, George Lucas.
    Don't forget Genesis alongside George Lucas.
    Not just a Genesis fanboy.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    That's my point actually. Many of us have that same visceral dislike of 80s synth sounds and heavy reverb, so it may be more than just a matter of personal taste. Why is it that these things have grown really old, while a mellotron can still be appreciated for what it is even though it's a really bad imitation of an orchestra?
    The reason I can hang with AMLoR is for lack of two things: the Yamaha DX7 and the Roland D-50. Those things were all over a ton of albums, but not AMLoR. Had they been, I'd be all for a complete re-do of the synth tracks from Note One.

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  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    Like many, I consider sounds from the 80s to be terribly dated, even stuff I used to enjoy back then. I've often wondered why that is. Can it be explained from a technical standpoint?
    Why is it that while we can instantly recognize that a song is from the 60s or 70s, it sounds acceptable to our ears (except maybe some stuff from the late 70s). On the other hand, most of what was recorded in the 80S (and early 90s) now sounds embarrassing. I'd love to see a rational explanation of this phenomenon that most of us have experienced.
    The reason a lot of 80's stuff sounds so "dated" has to do with the technology available. The big thing was, before 1978, if you wanted to get a particular sound, you were limited to the gear you had, the studio you were working at, and the professionals you were working with. By that last one, I mean the producer and engineer. It was about dialing in a guitar tone, a Hammond organ drawbar setting, a synth patch, etc, plus things like mic placement, and whatever "secret sauce" that your producer liked to toss on things. Sometimes might even be a particular studio, as you often read where musicians would say things like "Oh, Wally Heider's had the greatest echo chamber ever" or "You could get a bass sound at Electric Ladyland unlike anywhere else". But basically, it was down to the expertise of the people present and maybe possibly where you were working.

    Even if you were trying to copy the sound of someone else's record (Bernie Krause said that when he and Paul Beaver would do sessions, people would ask for a synth sound they heard on a Stevie Wonder record or whatever), you might not be able to get the exact sound. Maybe it was because you didn't have Wally Heider's echo chamber, or the recording console at whichever studio in Nashville that had the frelled up channel (which is said to have inspired the first distortion pedal), or you didn't have someone who knew how to recreate the synth patch on Living For The City.

    But around 1978, synthesizers started to appear that had patch memory. It was said once that when Sequential Circuits first started getting Prophet-5's in for servicing, they noted that a lot of people weren't bothering to program in their own patches. Either people couldn't be bothered to figure out how to store sounds and were just using the live control panel the way you would on a Minimoog or whatever, or they were just using the factory patches.

    This ended up having a big effec ton the industry. Gregg Hawkes created the synth patch on Let's Go by The Cars on a Prophet-5, but when Roland put out the Jupiter-8, that was one of the stock factory patches. Anyone wanting to get that sound only had to put down the cash for a JP-8, and dial whichever number patch it was. And it was the same with other synths, I think Eddie Van Halen admitted he used stock patches on the Oberheim OB-Xa on the songs on 1984 where he used it (saying once "I don't have time to program stuff"). So you started hearing a lot of the same synth sounds.

    Then, when effects processors came out that had patch memory, it got even worse. If you wanted the "Phil Collins drum sound", well, virtually every digital reverb had that programmed in. It was probably the default setting when you turned the damn box on. Pretty much any other sound that you heard on a record, that was created by effects processing was in there too (I'll come back to that in just a second).

    In the guitar department, Tom Scholz put the Rockman out on the market (after Epic cut off his royalties because he was taking too long to finish Third Stage). So everyone started using that because you didn't have to worry about mic placement or whatever. You just had to EQ the hell out of the thing during the mix so you didn't have the "Boston" guitar tone (of course, for it to really sound like Boston, you'd have to play exactly like Scholz or Barry Goudreau, but that stupid "smaller than a peanut butter and jelly sandwich" box got you have way there, if that was what you wanted).

    And likewise, if you wanted say the Trevor Rabin Owner Of A Lonely Heart solo tone, well, there again effects processor that came out after May 1984 had it programmed in. Some of them even had some clever reference to Trevor or the song title as it's name. If you wanted the Andy Summers stereo chorus guitar tone, you could get that too, at the touch of the button.

    ANd then there was drum machines. Everyone had either a Linndrum (or it's predecessor the LM-1, which is what Prince used on most of his stuff) or an Oberheim DMX or one of the Roland boxes. Even today, you hear a lot of hiphop records that still use the Roland TR-808, or something doing a really good impersonation of one.

    Don't even get me started on samplers and digital synths. For awhile, it seemed like every frelling record had that exact same Fairlight "orchestra hit" patch, and DX-7 "slap bass" and "Rhodes" patches on them. Oy! I think Tony Banks might have been the only person who didn't use the Fairlight orchestra hit at some point.

    That's basically why everything sounded so dated int he 80's, because everyone had these tools/toys and either got lazy, or (perhaps just as likely) they had record company people breathing down their necks saying "WHy don't you do something that sounds like that Phil Collins record that was a big hit last month" or whatever.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post



    Never much cared for 'One Slip' either...that one feels like the most truly 'dated' song on it, might just be me. Don't like Gilmour in stadium mode- see also 'Blue Light', 'Rattle That Lock', 'Take A Breath', 'Take It Back'...
    I always liked One Slip, Take It Back and Blue Light (the latter gets points for having a real horn section on it, instead of having one of the Art Of Noise escapees who played on the record do something on the Fairlight). I suppose I see the point that he was using that rhythmic echo thing, which everyone associates with a certain Irish guitarist, but in fact Gilmour did it before The Edge (and for that matter the BBC Radiophonic Workshop did it before Gilmour or Waters).

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    Right there with you, mon! I dug it in '87, and I like it as is. Swapping out the synth sounds wouldn't help AMLoR at all. "One Slip" just wouldn't work without those sequences.
    You could make One Slip work without the sequences or the rhythmic echo on the guitar, but you'd probably have to come up with a whole new arrangement. I rather like the melody and the chorus, and some of the lyrics (eg "Was it love/Or the idea of being in love"). I kinda wish they had let Tony Levin do a bit more with his Stick solo than they did, though. That's another thing about the live version, is Guy Pratt's bass solo. Also, I love the coda they added for playing it live, in Delicate Sound OF Thunde,r I talking about the bit they play as they do the "iris opening" thing with the Varilites on the screen. I always thought that sounded amazing.
    I'm a Luddite in that within 'rock' music (as opposed to 'electronic' music) I would prefer 'real' drums.
    For the most part, I'm the same way. I want a real human, sitting behind an acoustic drumkit, that's being mic'd up. I say a poorly mic'd drum kit beats triggered drums any day of week. ANd I prefer as little processing as possible, a little bit of reverb (especially if it's actual plate or spring reverb) is all you need, certainly not the big digital reverb drum sounds you heard on like every record during the 80's.

    My dislike of certain 80s keyboard sounds is visceral but it's a personal taste thing.
    As said above, it's the "slap bass", "Rhodes", and "orchestra hits" that get me. There's a lot of records from the latter half of the 80's, ballads especially, where I think, "Oh, that would sound so much better with a real piano" (by "real" I mean either acoustic or an actual Rhodes or Wurlitzer) or "That would sound better with an actual bassist, or even Minimoog style bass patch".
    Why is it that these things have grown really old, while a mellotron can still be appreciated for what it is even though it's a really bad imitation of an orchestra?
    I think it's because most of the records where you hear a Mellotron, it was still a matter of each producer using his own "secret sauce" still. Even though you heard the same strings, choir, whatever tapes on different records, there was different processing and whatever that made them sound a little different each time.

    With the sampler, it was mostly everyone using the same sampled strings or brass or whatever, and mostly using the same patches on the SPX-80 (or whatever the Yamaha processor everyone had was called) or the Harmonizer.

    What I still find amusing is I swear the real strings on some of Prince's mid 80's songs, like Take Me With U, Purple Rain, and Raspberry Beret sound like he was trying to sound like a Mellotron, as if he told the musicians to play "just a little bit out of tune, just like a Mellotron".

  22. #47
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    You could make One Slip work without the sequences or the rhythmic echo on the guitar, but you'd probably have to come up with a whole new arrangement.
    And then it would be a different song. No point in doing that.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    And then it would be a different song. No point in doing that.
    No, it wouldn't be a different song. Same chords, melody, and lyrics, just a different arrangement.

    It'd be like what Richie Havens did with Here Comes The Sun, or what Devo did with (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction.

    Come to think of it, it would also be kind of like what Kim Wilde (or rather, her producer) did with You Keep Me Hanging On, or what Naked Eyes did to Always Something There To Remind Me. So a new arrangement could be good, or it could be much, much, much worse. (shrug)

  24. #49
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    I like it the way it is.

  25. #50
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    They could rerecord the whole album with a reggae sound.

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