Popol Vuh

[Udi Koomran]

I'm an avid fan and I have almost all of their lps since I started listening them in the late 70's
But after buying Nosfertau on cd and reading around a bit I realize the PV catalog is a minefield and the cds don't do justice to their sound
Anyone here ever compare the vinyl to any of the cd editions ?

[rcarlberg]

In what way, Udi? I used to have all the LPs, and bought 4 or 5 of their CDs when I got out of vinyl. I never noticed any deficit in the sound of the CDs. What”d I miss?

[Udi Koomran]

Try comparing Nosferatu (Egg records) to the cd (Spalax)

[rcarlberg]

I’m not buying an LP just to do a comparison. Can’t you just tell me?

[Udi Koomran]

The cd sounds horribly muffled

[Mister Triscuits]

Popol Vuh's catalog was always kind of mystifying: tunes were repeated under different titles, albums containing largely different material were released under the same title, the material on some albums seemed to be leftovers from an earlier period or didn't sound like it was being played by the lineup credited on the sleeve, and what the hell exactly was Yoga, anyway? So the messy CD catalog falls right in line. Certainly a lot of the CDs out there are sourced from vinyl (and the recent vinyl reissues on Wah Wah state that they are mastered from original tapes, which is extremely unlikely) and some of them suffer from heavy-handed noise reduction. Some guy on the Hoffman forum claims that in at least one or two cases, the same album will contain a mix of needle-drop and tape-sourced tracks.

[rcarlberg]

Wasn’t Spalax a bootleg label? Chances are the CDs were sourced from vinyl, and filtered to try to remove some of the groove noise.

[arturs]

I own several of the "twofers" that came out on some Italian label, I think, in the 90s. They sound muffled but are listenable. A few tracks are missing from each one to fit two LPs onto one CD.

I believe SPV reissued most if not all of them about a decade ago, some with bonus tracks. I contemplated "upgrading" at one point but I could not find any info on how the SPV's sounded. I didn't want to risk it--someone here on a PV thread many years ago claimed that some/most of the PV LPs were just not well recorded in the first place, so what we have can't be improved upon much.

As for Spalax, I always assumed they were legit. But I'm not sure what info was the basis for my opinion.

[moecurlythanu]

As for Spalax, I always assumed they were legit. But I'm not sure what info was the basis for my opinion.

Ditto.

[Udi Koomran]

As far as I understand there were 2 labels that released the PV catalod on cds - Spalax and SPV
The muffled Nosferatu that I have is the Spalax one
Anyone compared between the vinyl -Spalax and SPV ?

[Udi Koomran]

I never bothered listening to any of there 80's releases did I miss anything good ?

[Mister Triscuits]

As far as I understand there were 2 labels that released the PV catalod on cds - Spalax and SPV

Also High Tide in Italy, which issued a series of twofers, and Belle Antique and Arcangelo in Japan.

[Udi Koomran]

Also High Tide in Italy, which issued a series of twofers, and Belle Antique and Arcangelo in Japan.

The Belle Antique and Arcangelo license these from SPV
High Tide - no idea

[Udi Koomran]

mmm.. I see that the SPV edition of In Den Gärten Pharaos has two 10 minute tracks
Anyone heard these ?
Are these from the same sessions of the album ?

[Steve F.]

As far as I understand there were 2 labels that released the PV catalod on cds - Spalax and SPV
The muffled Nosferatu that I have is the Spalax one
Anyone compared between the vinyl -Spalax and SPV ?

Three: High Tide in Italy, who claimed they were from better sources. I have no idea.

[Beebfader]

I think if ever there was a band who needed a properly curated and mastered boxed set it's these guys. I think their discography is a shambles, although the more recent reissues made the best of it. They would really suit a proper (say 6 disc) survey of everything including the Herzog years. There's a continuity to their work, as well as a vast amount of repetition.

[Mr.Krautman]

As far as I understand there were 2 labels that released the PV catalod on cds - Spalax and SPV
The muffled Nosferatu that I have is the Spalax one
Anyone compared between the vinyl -Spalax and SPV ?

I didn't made a direct comparison but the SPV re-issue (from the W.H Soundtracks box) sounds fairly good to me. Regarding Spalax, I never heard ANY reissues from them (And I have many) with a decent sound. Don't know where they got their masters from (if any) but all sound dull, muffled and lack definition. (vs. my old vinyls) I suspect they used some poorly made vinyl transfer with heavy HF rollof eq. to hide the defects from the original source, or maybe a x-th generation low speed analog tape. (or K7 ?) I had to buy again many of these early Spalax re-issues (the complete A.R.T catalog, etc...) when they became available from other (better) sources.

[Mr.Krautman]

I think if ever there was a band who needed a properly curated and mastered boxed set it's these guys. I think their discography is a shambles, although the more recent reissues made the best of it. They would really suit a proper (say 6 disc) survey of everything including the Herzog years. There's a continuity to their work, as well as a vast amount of repetition.

Actually there'is a very nice long P.V boxset titled "The Werner Herzog Soundtracks" issued by SPV, including all the (5) W.H soundtracks (separate CD's with original artwork) and a cool book(let). I think it's still available and fairly priced.

[Kai]

mmm.. I see that the SPV edition of In Den Gärten Pharaos has two 10 minute tracks
Anyone heard these ?
Are these from the same sessions of the album ?

No, much later by the sound of it, probably from the 21st century. As is Affenstunde's bonus track, and the same probably applies to many of the other bonus tracks on various SPV re-releases. They remind of remixed collages compiled from various bits from earlier material, a bit in the style of that remix compilation from five years back. None have left much impression on me.

I generally don't buy multiple editions of same albums, so my collection of 1970s Popol Vuh is mixture of Spalax, ZYX and SPV. However, I don't think that SPVs sound any "better" than Spalaxes or ZYXes (a bit louder perhaps), though they are packaged more lavishly and have those, IMO unneccessary, bonus tracks. I also have no direct experience of the vinyl versions, but I would think that many of the CD releases are needle drops. I have heard a couple of compilations focused on PV's film material and through them heard different versions of "Brüder der Schattens, Söhnne des Lichts". I think the difference comes from the source and whatever EQ or noise reduction was used afterwards. The Spalax version does sound pretty muffled (similar to the nominal Nosferatu soundtrack material), which suggest a lot of noise reduction/treble roll-off to hide surface noise. The Milan Best of version sounded much brighter and open, though it was abridged. A third version I heard was a very obvious needle drop, more hazy and crackly.

In addition to High Tide, - whose versions of Affenstude and Nacht der Seele I don't remember being any better than the other versions of I have heard - there was also Celestial Harmonies' compilation of "Aguirre" theme,In den Gärten Pharaos and "Spirit of Peace" plus their compilation of Hosianna Mantra and Nacht der Seele (Tantric Songs). Again, as far as I remember, there may have been some differences in sound between these and Spalax/ZYX versions, but very small, just enough to suggest a different mastering.

[spacefreak]

The Nosferatus have been a special case when talking CDs. The soundtrack used material from two two different albums: "Brüder Des Schattens - Söhne Des Lichts" and "On The Way To A Little Way". The second LP is not even reissued on SPV.

Forget the Spalax issues, they sound awful. Best CD version I've listened to (that has the advantage of combining both albums on one CD is "The Two Original Soundtracks Of Werner Herzog's Nosferatu" by the italian High Tide label. Compared to the original vinyls, its a very decent rendition. Spain's Wah-Wah label issued the same italian 2-in-1 version as a double LP as well, in 2015 (they also used the High Tide cover). There was also an identical US double LP on Waxwork Records, with a different cover, entitled "Nosferatu, The Vampyre (Original Score)".

[smcfee]

I own several of the "twofers" that came out on some Italian label, I think, in the 90s. They sound muffled but are listenable. A few tracks are missing from each one to fit two LPs onto one CD.

I'm fairly sure most of those High Tide 2-on-1s are complete albums. The exception is the Hosianna Mantra / Spirit of Peace, which contains the Spirit of Peace three-part piano suite, of which I believe only one part appeared on the Spirit of Peace 1985 album (and the rest of the album is omitted)... do you know of any other omissions?

I believe it's Celestial Harmonies (American label IIRC) that did the chop-ups...

[Progbear]

The SPV remaster of Aguirre is supposedly the only one with the “real” “Vergegenwärtigung.” The Spalax version has the complete version of the “Spirit of Peace” piano suite, which isn’t easily findable otherwise. Your choice.

[arturs]

I'm fairly sure most of those High Tide 2-on-1s are complete albums. The exception is the Hosianna Mantra / Spirit of Peace, which contains the Spirit of Peace three-part piano suite, of which I believe only one part appeared on the Spirit of Peace 1985 album (and the rest of the album is omitted)... do you know of any other omissions?

I believe it's Celestial Harmonies (American label IIRC) that did the chop-ups...

You are correct. I pulled out my High Tide label CDs, and yes they are all complete albums. Don't know why I thought they were truncated. They just happened to be short LPs.

[smcfee]

The SPV remaster of Aguirre is supposedly the only one with the “real” “Vergegenwärtigung.” The Spalax version has the complete version of the “Spirit of Peace” piano suite, which isn’t easily findable otherwise. Your choice.

I think the High Tide "Aguirre" is also complete: https://rateyourmusic.com/release/co...arten-pharaos/

[Mister Triscuits]

I think the High Tide "Aguirre" is also complete

The catch is that some releases that have "Vergegenwärtigung" in the track listing actually contain a sequence of three different tracks in that space. I'll have to check when I'm at home whether the High Tide is one of them.

Apparently even the SPV CD does not contain the fully original "Vergegenwärtigung"; according to the popolvuh.nl website it mixes in part of "Aguirre I" at one point. Again, when I get home and if I get time, I'll have to check it against the original LP.