I have a date with this album tonight. Gonna dim the lights and crank it. The last time I did, I enjoyed it but wasn't blown away. However, one evening driving it did blow me away, so we'll see...
I have a date with this album tonight. Gonna dim the lights and crank it. The last time I did, I enjoyed it but wasn't blown away. However, one evening driving it did blow me away, so we'll see...
Your post made me listen to "Cosmology" again. I really see why you would bring that album up in an Anglagard thread.Originally Posted by Fracktured
Listened to this earlier today for the purposes of this topic. Before today had been at least two years since playing. I would disagree about the lack of recurring themes, as there are SOME... there's a theme in the first track that recurs several times under different arrangements. It's not a theme that sends shivers down my spine, but it's there.
It's hard to separate the biography of the critic from the aesthetics. I heard Hybris and Epilog during formative years for my musical taste. I heard this album 15 years after. Maybe if I'd experienced the albums in a different order I would feel differently about them, but that's impossible to know.
Several years ago I sold a bunch of albums that I considered "redundant", for example all my Japanese Zeuhl and most French instrumental Zeuhl. All of it's good, and when someone says "You sold Weidorje? You're nuts, it's great", I can't disagree that it's pretty great. But for years, if I ever want to listen to Zeuhl, I reach for Magma or Eskaton. Those other albums weren't doing me or anyone else any good sitting in a cabinet.
And that's kind of how I feel about this album. It's fine, and maybe if I keep listening to it periodically I will understand how it is indispensable, but for now it feels superfluous to requirements. I have two amazing albums by Änglagård, and I don't see anything added (for me) by a third one, however well it's done, and however I may be pleased that they are a going concern and able to make some money. Except to post here, if I wanted to listen to them, I would have chosen Epilog or Hybris.
I'm not sure I agree with this line of thinking. As Sean (sort of) stated, this album follows a certain pattern that the band laid out previously, so it's not like listeners are being required to ingest something new. So, by that logic, VO *should* reward quickly to those who were already familiar with the 90s albums.
And in my *personal* experience, I think the idea that you have to immerse or even "brainwash" or yourself into a record 5-10-20 times in order to appreciate it is overstated. The albums I tend to listen to 10 times are ones that drew me in the first time. In the case of VO, I am forcing myself to listen to it because I'm entertaining the concept that I am missing something. This is not to say that I haven't had experiences in which you "get" something after repeated listens, but I think saying VO is one of those albums is debatable imo.
I think it's more appropriate to say that about Epilog actually.
Surely a fair point. I think many of us under 50 can relate to that as we didn't cut our teeth on music from 1971. For the record, in 1992 I had no idea who Anglagard was and that there was even a modern progressive rock scene. That occurred for me between 1995 and 1997, and believe it was 1997 when I first heard Hybris and I was blown away. It was already quite hyped as a 90s masterpiece by that point. Adding to the mystique, the album was pressed in small batches and frequently out of print. I think my first copy of both those albums were CD-Rs, only the live album was in print.
And while there can always be an iconization factor that can overstate an album's importance or quality, put me in the camp that feels 25 years later that these two albums are bona fide masterpieces considering how difficult it is for anything post '70s (and especially post 2000) to have have staying power. I think time has proven that.
Last edited by Poisoned Youth; 09-30-2017 at 07:50 AM.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
So I gave Viljars Oga a fresh spin (two actually) prompted by the excellent discussion in this thread.
I'm not sure what to say that hasn't already been said that would change my feelings. I think it's a very good album. I think there are some fantastic moments. I don't expect to *be* Hybris or Epilog, or maybe I do. But I just can't connect with it the same way. 30 minutes later and I can remember precious few specific moments or melodies. And perhaps that was the point.
In the end I think familiarizing myself with the album more was still a positive experience. But it's always difficult to be in a position where you want to like something more than you actually do. But my bar is set awfully high as I can consider Hybris and Epilog to be stone cold classics.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
Most interesting. I largely agree with this, the albums I play a lot are albums I really like, and usually liked right from the beginning. Sometimes I'll be so-so on an album at the beginning, put it away for a bit, and come back to it in a month or two, and often find I like it better after some "time away." I think I tried with VO back in 2012, but it still didn't click, and then I sort of forgot about it. So you could be absolutely right that I'll have the same experience.
The thing I'm thinking that's perhaps a bit different is that it may not be a huge number of spins, but a few very close spins where I try to really focus on it. That's hard for me, because usually I listen to music while other things are happening, but I do get some opportunities. I'm thinking that if I can get a better sense of form and flow, I might like the album better. I tend to agree with you, it probably won't ever rival Hybris or Epilog for me, but I'd like to enjoy VO more than I do now, which is a prospect I haven't given up on. I'll be picking it up again Sunday because we're out of town today.
Epilog definitely took me a few more spins to connect with than Hybris, but it didn't take much effort. Great album!
I agree with this. I really don't think I like Hybris and Epilog because they are iconic or popular in the Prog world. I like them because I dig the music, and they actually still deliver a very similar punch for me as when I first discovered them in the early 90s. My excitement for these has never cooled, and after ~25 years I think that has to say something about how that music is connecting with me. And I think a lot of people are in the same boat.
But many of them also seem to like VO as much or more. So VO has to have something going for it!
Bill
I think Viljans Öga is every bit as good as Hybris and Epilog, but I don't like quite it as much. I don't know if I've ever been as excited for a new release as I was with this one, and that may play a factor in why it didn't quite live up to my expectations.
I was nineteen when Hybris was unleashed on an unsuspecting prog-starved world, and it was sent to me on a cassette from a tape-trading friend back in the early days of the internet (if I recall, the sole album from Atavism Of Twilight was on the other side). To say I was blown away would be an immense understatement. This led to more and more discoveries of new, modern prog rock that was being released all over the world... it was like the doors had been blown open after years of either listening to ancient recordings or tolerating contemporary releases like Union and We Can't Dance. This became my favourite album, I was obsessed with the sound of it (and soon with bands like Anekdoten, Landberk, etc.) - and it remains in my top 3 albums of all time all these years later. A year or two later, Epilog was released and I bought it immediately, to pair with the Hybris CD that I now owned to replace the worn-out Maxell XL-II 90. It was more challenging on first listen, but quickly became a rewarding album that made a perfect companion piece to the debut. At some point there was the short American tour which I managed to snag a few bootlegs of (Milwaukee was one that I recall), and the Hybris demos, and finally the first live album Buried Alive. Not long after, they imploded and all went quiet for eighteen years. So, fast-forward to a guy now about forty years old and the pleasant shock of hearing that that fabled band of his youth were releasing another album. Without a doubt, the most anticipated release of my lifetime, it simply could not have lived up to the hype I had created for myself.
All that said, it's an excellent album (and I'm listening again as I type this, thanks to this thread). I really do like it - all the elements are there, but the hairs on the arm do not raise when listening, and that's what I consider the defining difference.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
*** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***
Not sure I know about the Hybris demos. Were these on the first CD reissue?
No, a bootleg that I came across years ago somewhere online. Worth hearing, some of the music is quite different to how it ended up on the album. I think some of them ended up on the 23 Years Of Hybris boxed set, but not all of them. I never got that, so I'm not 100% sure...
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
*** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***
I love Viljans Oga. It's as good as the first two, I think, and possibly better at points. I have the LP version, and having that little pause between each side-long composition may be a good thing; it gives me a minute to take a breather and re-focus myself for the next side. It was my favorite album of 2012.
Possible Worlds http://www.possibleworldsband.com
Well I cranked it last night, and thoroughly was enjoying it. The opening epic is fabulous, but gets a little... I don't know... circus-ey? kind of toward the end which I didn't care for as well. The chordings of the acoustic guitars really are excellent. I do understand the lack of cohesion some have referred to, but cohesion was never really their strength, and I don't think it needs cohesion. The individual parts are great on their own, and I like the way they flow together, how one part will come out of nowhere, completely unlike the previous passage. Nothing wrong with that. The 2nd track also is excellent, there is one very technical guitar riff that appears a couple times that blows my socks off-not a loud dynamic thing, just really tasteful and interesting. Was thoroughly enjoying the third track too when suddenly I woke up and realized I'd fallen asleep and missed half of track 3, and all of the last track. I hate it when that happens. Tonight I think I'll listen to Epilog.
Edit: I'm giving up trying to compare with the first two at this point. It's a different album, a different time, a bit of a different experience for me personally, even though musically it's of course, in the same ball park. But I'll see just how much I prefer Epilog tonight if I actually do, and if so, at least for this weekend. Things can always, and often do, change for me
Last edited by bill g; 09-30-2017 at 12:39 PM.
Just to clarify – I did not mean to imply that people who like these albums are somehow forced into enjoying them by their reputation. I'm actually a fan too, even if neither Hybris nor Epilog are in my top 50. What I wanted to say is merely that people who discovered these records more or less at the time they came out (let's say in the 1990s, for simplicity's sake) naturally perceive them differently than those for whom they are relics of the relatively distant past. I fall in the latter category.
Having said that, I completely agree with Cozy that it's difficult for a post-1990 record to have as much staying power as the older LPs. In this context, both Hybris and Epilog appear to be undispitable classics. However, Cozy's point rings true even louder for a 2012 album like Viljans Oga, a product of the Internet era, where consumers are more likely to digest a dozen of new albums per week rather than buy a couple of CDs and spend a lot of time with them. So, I feel that even if after a while VO does not end up having as high a reputation as Hybris or Epilog, it would be unfair to compare them because of different circumstances and different listening practices of the early 1990s and mid-2010s.
Have not heard this album but this thread made me play the first album today. First time in 5 years or more. Great music. The female vocals I could do without, but the rhythm section, keys, and guitar are outstanding. Maybe a little too much flute in spots.
The female vocals?
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
*** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***
Right, I hear a female chorus in there. The feminine element floats on top of the tough sounding band underneath. Whatever my attraction is to this band, it's mainly the bass, drums, and keys (piano, Hammond Organ).
My sentiments exactly, ,although the tune Sorgmantel is one of my favorites pieces from all three albums.
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
I get what Levgan is saying - it was a different time when I got the first two albums. I ordered Hybris from Robert Wolf in 1992 or so, and had to wait MONTHS for it to arrive. It seemed crazy, but Robert said demand was outstripping supply, and I guess in retrospect he was right. Who knew enough people read the GEPR to cause that kind of bottleneck? I can't really remember who I got Epilog from...
Where the fuck is Ricardo, the Norwegian vice-prince? I need his opinion on this one.
Probably too busy dancing around his flat, eyes closed, only wearing a white T-shirt with Air Supply coming out of the hi-fi and floating around the room, and he's mouthing the entire song "Cant Live Without You" on repeat mode. That's my guess.
If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.
"And it's only the giving
That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson
I need to revisit this one. I always turn to Epilogue for my Anglagard fix. I remember how blown away I was when I first heard their music. It continues to give me chills to this day, Epilogue is one of my all time favorite recordings.
I almost felt a sexual arousing there. Is it the prelude to the afternoon of a sexually aroused gas mask all over again?
There is a great series of mini-documentaries (or one large documentary in 10 chapters) on the making of this album. The final chapter is quite a revealing one about how the band worked and what could have been:
Gonna do a revisit and reassessment this week.
If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.
"And it's only the giving
That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson
I bought, tried a couple of runs at it. For whatever reason, I have yet to connect with it. It's one of those cases where I wind up listening at the music, wondering what the band is doing, rather than experiencing the journey.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.
OK, here's a progress report, in case anyone cares.Fresh spin tonight, gave it pretty close attention. First, the good news...
The good news is, I really like track 2, Sorgmantel. That one just jumped out to me on this listen. Lot's of Tull-ish folk, but with that classic Tull-ish muscle that doesn't lose its rock edge. In terms of flow, this one is multifaceted, but really develops organically to my ears. It was easy to follow, and was a super fun ride. I think this may be the most cohesive track on the album, and at this point may be my favorite.
Also in the good-news department, the beginning of Snardom grabbed me (I already liked the ending). All the way up to the introduction of that ending theme is a fantastic ride. Maybe not the most cohesive ride (in fact I couldn't really tell where Sorgmantel ended and Snardom began, until I put the disc into the computer and figured it out), but the band is just kicking ass through this whole opening, and it's a joy no matter how you slice it.
So I'm definitely starting to hear some things in context that I was missing before. The extra attention has paid off.
Now the bad news...
The last track, Langtans Klocka is just a non-starter for me. I don't connect with the beginning, and the evil drunken circus polka-waltz that comes in later just kills it for me. IMO, a terrible way to end the album. They would have been better off putting this track third and ending with Snardom. I'm probably going to make a CDR of the album omitting Langtans Klocka. I think it will be a much more enjoyable 44-ish minute album for me without this, and the ending of Snardom is a perfect way to leave this, imo; brilliant even.
Also in the bad news department, though not as offensive as Langtans Klocka, is the opener, Ur Vilande. While not a terrible track, I think this one feels a bit "forced" to my ears. This one, to me, is trying too hard to be a classical piece, and while it has rocking moments, I don't think they really established a reason for the more rocking parts to connect with the more pastoral sections. Given this arbitrariness, this is historically where I start losing focus, which has carried into the second track, which is too bad because with greater attention I love the second track. Hopefully just knowing the album will "improve" will get me by this one in the future. It doesn't annoy me like Langtans Klocka, so I think I can live with it, and hopefully it will grow om me with time.
My other minor quibble comes in Snardom. Once they establish the ending theme (which kind of comes out of nowhere), they go into a slower section before reprising the ending theme. I'm on the fence about whether that works. I obviously can't "omit" that part, so I'll live with it and see if it grow on me. Personally, I wonder if they couldn't have shaved three minutes from that track and made it more effective by just ended it after introducing that theme the first time. But, they did what they did.
So, I definitely heard some things that got me a little excited. And I heard some thing where I think that for my tastes, I can do some "addition by subtraction." That's where it stand for now, more spins to come.
Bill
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