Peter Hammill vs David Bowie

[TCC]

I actually saw that Lydon cited Over as the album that really got him to exploring PH's work and referenced that when I (co)wrote the VdGG book. (Maybe it was even from your exchange with him, dunno). Although Lydon has publicly championed Nadir's Big Chance over the years, it was Over that he referenced when a fan on the EYADA internet channel asked him what it was that got him into Hammill's music: "Oh, the over-the-top dramatic tragedy of an album called Over - really, really glorious, about his wife [sic] running off with his best friend - and the angst-ridden grief in the songs. I'm not meaning to sound wicked but it's great fun to hear someone so tragic."

Good to know this Bucka and Zaragon: thanks for sharing!!; I
always thought it was “Nadir’s”!

Pura vida!.

[bRETT]

"Oh, the over-the-top dramatic tragedy of an album called Over - really, really glorious, about his wife [sic] running off with his best friend -

Not sure if that's what actually happened, though there definitely was a breakup. The wife-with-the-friend scenario is spelled out in "Time Heals" but that song is actually a few years older (it was in his book, Killers Angels Refugees).

[Bucka001]

Not sure if that's what actually happened, though there definitely was a breakup. The wife-with-the-friend scenario is spelled out in "Time Heals" but that song is actually a few years older (it was in his book, Killers Angels Refugees).

It happened, but PH was never married to her (long-time girlfriend, her name really was Alice). Time Heals was referring to something earlier but fit the theme of the album so was included

[arthurfrayn]

Hah it's wild to hear that Over is the first big Hammill favorite of of Lydon's. I thought that album was great -I tried to play that for folks when I first got into it -no takers. Everyone looked at me like I was nuts...

[Zaragon]

I actually saw that Lydon cited Over as the album that really got him to exploring PH's work and referenced that when I (co)wrote the VdGG book. (Maybe it was even from your exchange with him, dunno). Although Lydon has publicly championed Nadir's Big Chance over the years, it was Over that he referenced when a fan on the EYADA internet channel asked him what it was that got him into Hammill's music: "Oh, the over-the-top dramatic tragedy of an album called Over - really, really glorious, about his wife [sic] running off with his best friend - and the angst-ridden grief in the songs. I'm not meaning to sound wicked but it's great fun to hear someone so tragic."

Yes, that was me, circa May 2000. I called in to ask Lydon about his thoughts on Split Enz, and what his impressions had been during the Pistols era when the kiwi septet took up residence in the UK. I had always been curious as to whether there was any aesthetic affinity between Judd-era Enz and the London punk movement. Lydon said he "liked them," but could only remember the Enz' hairdos, not their music.

I mentioned that the '76/'77-era Split Enz sounded like a cross between 10cc, Sparks and Genesis, and proceeded to ask Lydon about his thoughts on the last of those bands, particularly the Gabriel era. He said he was never impressed with Genesis — with the caveat that Gabriel later "found his soul," or something to that effect — and singled out The Lamb with dismissive words. I then asked him about Peter Hammill, which led to the portion that you recall. The conversation wrapped with Lydon telling me that I was making him feel insecure with all this talk about Genesis, VDGG, and the like.

[nosebone]

Scott Walker

[N_Singh]

Scott Walker

yep. Scott 1-4, and the Brel songs from that period. Personally I don’t care for the excessively weird and superficially “clever” nonmusic for the sake of music stuff he’s been doing in the last 20 years. I tried to get into it, but I just can’t take it.

It reminds me of bad 1980s industrial music, who is the guitar player for Nick Cave and his German band that translated into ‘dilapidated buildings falling’ This is the kind of the same direction David sylvian took. Maybe he was listening Scott walker too (but definitely not listening to Scott Walker 2). “Secrets of the beehive“ is a masterpiece. His recent stuff? Yikes.

Bowie, I Love the 1976 through 1980 albums the most. They seem to be the most experimental. The rest of it is neither here nor there conventional rock ‘n’ roll. Except for I do like life on Mars the record. .

I confess I never really got into PH-VGG—my impression is They seem to be trying to update 1920s German cabaret songs for the rock ‘n’ roll era, without any of the talent and acumen of the legendary song writers like Kurt Weill.

Maybe that’s unfair; Kurt Weil belongs in the same stratosphere is George Gershwin and hoagy Carmichael.

The great thing about Scott Walker is, he could sing “September song“ if he wanted to and would absolutely nail it, absolutely kill it .

Same for Dagmar Krause channeling Ute Lemper. She still around ?

[Bucka001]

db.jpg

Here is a two-page, handwritten letter from 1977 by David Bowie that sold for 2,000 pounds at auction. The letter was written by Bowie while he stayed with his manager following Marc Bolan’s sudden death in 1977. In the letter, Bowie is asking his artist liaison manager to pick him up a few LPs at the record store before leaving for Switzerland that night. One of the albums is “The Quiet Zone / The Pleasure Dome” which was the new album by Van der Graaf. That's the first manifestation of DB's interest in VdG(G) that I've ever seen that actually came straight from the man himself.

Since this thread started a couple years ago, I've also heard (from two very reliable sources ;-) ) that Bowie a) requested all the VdGG CD reissues from Virgin when they came out in 2005, and b) requested a copy of "A Grounding In Numbers" a few short years ago from Esoteric. That, coupled with the other secondhand anecdotes I listed on the first page of this thread (DB producer Ken Scott saying in '73 that DB had the whole lot of VdGG in his collection and would listen to them one after the other; Bowie biographer Peter Doggett stating that DB had immersed himself in Hammill's music in '74; and Judge Smith recalling Bowie hanging out at the H to He sessions) paint a picture of an artist who was well and truly an admirer of PH/VdGG's music.

Strange that he never namechecked them in any articles/interviews (that I'm aware of anyway).

[Mister Triscuits]

Here is a two-page, handwritten letter from 1977 by David Bowie that sold for 2,000 pounds at auction.

That is really fun to see. Thanks for showing it.

[Zappathustra]

thanks Bucka for uploading this - otherwise I had to do it. A beautiful letter, that shows the human side of such a great artist, reminding us that all is human, toomuch human.

[JKL2000]

Yes, that's a pretty hilarious and interesting letter. He's so close to being like a president who doesn't know the price of milk (not knowing what time the banks close, and needing to be woken up), but also with excellent taste and a need for good music.

[Mascodagama]

...which was Hydrogen to Helium, so "H to He" refers to the nuclear fusion reaction; If you take "Who Am The Only One" to mean a divine being, then the conceit of the album title is that the divine spark comes from a physical process - or more broadly, that if you're looking for miracles, you should look for them in science...

Not that it really matters, but I wrote that.

[Rick L.]

Two songwriters enter.....

One songwriter leaves!

[progeezer]

I haven't read preceding posts and I apologize to anyone offended, but for me Bowie is filet mignon and Hamill is dog food.

[aith01]

I haven't read preceding posts and I apologize to anyone offended, but for me Bowie is filet mignon and Hamill is dog food.

I don’t share your point of view, but I got a kick out of that analogy nonetheless.

[Halmyre]

I haven't read preceding posts and I apologize to anyone offended, but for me Bowie is filet mignon and Hamill is dog food.

Bit harsh, I'd probably say Hamill is more like steak tartare.

[Zappathustra]

"Dear manager,
I am running out of ideas again. Very important. Please hurry to the pet shop and fetch me another bag of this dog food. I know I've been looting the guy for all these years but maybe he still has more to give.

With love, your fillet mignon"

[Bucka001]

Not that it really matters, but I wrote that.

Shit, sorry about that. I did copy / paste that bit from somewhere (now I know where) as that couple of sentences explains that formula far better than I could have (actually, I couldn't have done it). Should have given you credit though. My bad.

It's funny, but the whole thing about the H to He equation was started by an official poster put out for the last Bowie album that utilized the same formula which is on that H to He album cover from '70 (I'm sure Bowie had to approve of the poster... maybe it was even his concept, etc). I postulated at the time that it might have been more than coincidental, but I'm not sure how much I believed that. However, in light of this '77 letter where DB is asking for the new VdGG album, coupled with info relayed to me that I have 100 percent confidence in that DB requested the '05 VdGG reissues from Virgin, and A Grounding from Esoteric... not to mention the aforementioned quotes from DB's producer, his biographer, and Judge Smith (that DB was actually *at* the H to He sessions in '70)… all this makes me think much more now that the similarity of the Bowie poster to the H to He album has to be much more than coincidental

db.jpg

[Bucka001]

Hamill is dog food.

Have you pre-ordered the new 8 CD Hammill box set yet!!!!

[revporl]

Scott Walker

Yeah I think Bowie took far more from Scott Walker than from anyone else, right the way through. Early on, Nite Flights in late 70's/early 80's and then recent Scott for Blackstar