Roll the Bones -- The (not so) Great Divider

[Tom]

I noticed that the Hold Your Fire thread has been largely taken over by debate on Roll The Bones. I have a dog in this fight, so I'm giving it a thread.

Scanning the bidding so far:

I feel like they lurched off track again with Roll the Bones but finally started to get their groove back with Counterparts.

I have to defend Roll the Bones. It might have more strong material than any other Rush album. Not just the title track (with that glorious outburst at 3:43), but "Bravado", "The Big Wheel", "You Bet Your Life".

My Roll the Bones has: Dreamline, Bravado, Roll the Bones, Where's My Thing, The Big Wheel, You Bet Your Life. A 29-minute album that I can live with, with a couple of standout tracks. Stuff like Heresy, Ghost of a Chance and Neurotica make me embarrassed to be a fan of the band.

RTB is 50% good. Presto is the superior Rupert Hine album, IMO.

... overall I like this album [HYF] pretty much better than anything that followed (Maybe except Roll the Bones).

I'll out and out say it -- I think "Roll the Bones" is a great album; in fact, it's the last Rush album they put out where I like ALL the songs. No, it doesn't sound like "Moving Pictures." But it has a lot of solid, catchy material -- yes, even "Neurotica" -- and it has a lot of energy for me. I don't know what people are listening to when they say this is a pallid album.

I've always liked it.

Except for "Neurotica."

[miamiscot]

Take "Neurotica" off the track list and it's a mighty fine album.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

I like "Neurotica," but I like King Crimson's cover more

[at least 100 dead]

I love Rush, but they lost me with Roll the Bones. “The Big Wheel” is great though. Too bad it was never played live (or was it?).

[Facelift]

I remember hearing Dreamline on the radio just before the album was released, and I lost my shit - thought it was the best thing they'd done in a really long time and I was so psyched for the album. Unfortunately, nothing else on the album was close (IMO), though I remember really liking the title track until the rapping started. I did appreciate the sound of the album, though, as it continued to nudge away from the synthy sounds of the '80s albums.

[Tom]

... I remember really liking the title track until the rapping started.

I can take or leave the rapping. (Which I guess makes it my favorite rap!) But I do love the instrumental bridge jammed into the middle of it.

[helix]

I love Rush, but they lost me with Roll the Bones. “The Big Wheel” is great though. Too bad it was never played live (or was it?).

nope. it was not. Hold Your Fire began the trend where Rush never again played 90% of their new and current LP on tour, which of course changed during Clockwork Angels (and Snake and Arrows by 65/70%)



Dreamline is amongst my top 5 worst Rush songs (along with Carve Away the Stone, Totem, Speed of Love) used it as a pee break for the shows. the chorus just seemed to obvious for Rush to do


I have a soft spot for You Bet Your Life and some of the other mid period LP closers like Hand Over Fist/Available Light and Everyday Glory. total Geddy 'songs'. some of the instrumentals don't work for me. I love Face Up and agree that Heresy, Ghost of a Chance, Neurotica aren't my faves tho Ghost redeemed itself due to it reappearing in the set where it was more effective than on record

[JKL2000]

I definitely like these songs:

Dreamline
Bravado
Roll the Bones
Ghost of a Chance

These I really need to listen to again because they all either don't make much of an impression, kind of blend together, or just seem kind of lame.

Face Up 3:54
The Big Wheel 5:13
Heresy 5:27
Neurotica 4:39
You Bet Your Life 5:01

Where's My Thing? (Part IV, "Gangster of Boats" Trilogy) I just remember not being a really inspired instrumental, but I should listen to that again.

There might be a few songs above that I actually do like and have sort of forgotten. I THINK Heresy is good but I really can't remember it. I really love the title track, never understand why some have a problem with it - the rap part totally works, IMO.

Somehow overall though I think Presto and Counterparts are both much stronger. Test for Echo is marginally stronger than RtB, IMO.

[dropforge]

"It might have more strong material than any other Rush album."

That's a big hell, no! on that.

[dropforge]

Somehow overall though I think Counterparts is much stronger, T4E a little less so. Presto is a smidgen stronger, mebbe.

Fixed.

[JKL2000]

Fixed.

Agree that Counterparts is the strongest from RtB through TfE. I could probably carve away (!) about three songs from T4E and the rest is pretty solid. Presto is pretty solidly just below Counterparts for me.

[Kevin Caffrey]

Agree that Counterparts is the strongest from RtB through TfE. I could probably carve away (!) about three songs from T4E and the rest is pretty solid. Presto is pretty solidly just below Counterparts for me.

Felt like a bit of a letdown after the stellar Presto -- with Geddy's singing going from super emotive on that album to a bit too subdued on RTB. There clearly are a lot of good songs on it -- nothing terrible on it really, but nothing too extraordinary. "Dreamline," "Bravado," "The Big Wheel" and "You Bet Your Life" are probably my favorites. I like "Ghost of a Chance" quite a bit as well -- really good guitar solo on that one. Title track is fun. Never really minded "Neurotica" too much but I understand why people generally don't seem to like it. "Face Up," "Where's My Thing" and "Heresy" I could take or leave. The word restrained seems to come to mind when I think of this album. Seemed very logical that with Counterparts proved to be a total 180 from the sound of RTB.

Kevin

[ThomasKDye]

I noticed that the Hold Your Fire thread has been largely taken over by debate on Roll The Bones. I have a dog in this fight, so I'm giving it a thread.

Scanning the bidding so far:

First, oops on my part for "Motion Pictures." Total brainfart. "MOVING Pictures."

Second, I rate this over "Counterparts" for two reasons: "The Speed of Love" drags horribly and puts me to sleep, I don't like that raspy voiced weirdness on "Double Agent" as much as the rap on "Roll the Bones," and "Everyday Glory" does nothing for me. Apart from that, it's a good album. I just don't find it as solid an album as RTB.

I will, for the sake of disclosure, add that this album came out during a warmly, fondly remembered time in my life when I felt like the world was my oyster and everything was perfect. MAYBE if it hadn't, I would have been more noncommittal, but at the time, I bonded to the songs pretty heavily. Even considering this, the album's held up well for me. From the soaring intro of "Dreamline" to the cheery chants in "You Bet Your Life" ("an-arch-ist re-ac-tion-ar-y" etc etc), it holds my interest all the way through. It's not as dynamic or as powerful as their classic material but it's a good listen when I'm in the mood for decent, punchy songs.

[Jerjo]

I think Presto is the great divider - maybe a handful of decent songs on that one.

[3RDegree_Robert]

I've always though it runs hot and cold and the sound is very thin.

[Mister Triscuits]

I'm not the world's biggest Rush fan, but I like 'em and think this album is a goodie. Love the title track. It just came up on my iPod last night, and when it ended I had to start it again, just like I did last time I heard it.

[Sean]

Take "Neurotica" off the track list and it's a mighty fine album.

I have found Neurotica to be one of the more musically ambitious tracks upon recently revisiting this album.

I think the cheesy chorus ran me off initially.

Now it's not so bad, they would do worse later.

[JKL2000]

I think Presto is the great divider - maybe a handful of decent songs on that one.

I honestly think we should have another thread for Presto - I want to take a look at the tracks and separate them into like/don't like, but I don't want to do it here... Do it Jerjo!

[at least 100 dead]

I honestly think we should have another thread for Presto - I want to take a look at the tracks and separate them into like/don't like, but I don't want to do it here... Do it Jerjo!

I listened to Presto the other night for the first time in 20 years not expecting much and wasn't disappointed.

Let me rephrase: it was a lot better than I remembered! Side two is a bit stronger...all good tunes, even "Anagram".

[Steve983]

Presto was when the bad songs started (although still a good album overall) but Roll The Bones just had too many poor songs. Having been a fan since '77 it was the last Rush album I bought for a long time. Years later I finally heard Counterparts and Test For Echo of which I only liked about half of each. Again, too many weak songs and then when Vapor Trails came out I couldn't believe what I was hearing, what a dirge of awful songs with no instrumental fireworks at all. At last when Snakes & Arrows came along they redeemed themselves.

[Score2112]

Roll the Bones is a solid, underrated album. Ghost of a Chance and Bravado are outstanding, Dreamline would be better if they dropped the cheesy synth. Some good deep tracks as well - Big Wheel is great, and I'd rank Where's My Thing over the better regarded LTTA. The album is certainly more listenable than the badly produced, geddy chorus-laden 2000s output, in my view.

[chalkpie]

I'm not the world's biggest Rush fan, but I like 'em and think this album is a goodie. Love the title track. It just came up on my iPod last night, and when it ended I had to start it again, just like I did last time I heard it.

Its interesting that it almost has two "choruses" yeah? The acoustic "chorus" wasn't needed, but I'm glad its there and adds a lot to the tune. Alex is always fun to listen to, especially when he does this more rhythmic strumming style on both electric and acoustic. He's just a fantastic player in every setting, a master of playing the right thing virtually all of the time. And his Grammy speeches are the best.

[dropforge]

Presto was when the bad songs started (although still a good album overall) but Roll The Bones just had too many poor songs. Having been a fan since '77 it was the last Rush album I bought for a long time. Years later I finally heard Counterparts and Test For Echo of which I only liked about half of each. Again, too many weak songs and then when Vapor Trails came out I couldn't believe what I was hearing, what a dirge of awful songs with no instrumental fireworks at all. At last when Snakes & Arrows came along they redeemed themselves.

"No instrumental fireworks"? Something tells me you put the wrong disc in the player and never checked it again.

S&A is the more "popular" album because of two killer instrumentals, but apart from a couple songs, the vocal stuff just didn't click for me.

[BravadoNJ]

just like Presto, RTB had that 'tinny' sound. that was corrected on Counterparts with the return of Peter Collins.
but also some of the songs; Face Up, Erotica & You Bet Your Life.. i just didn't understand were they were going.
Where's My Thing would have been better off being the solo on the title track stretching it out to about 8 minutes.
Lyrically this was when Neil started his decline. he had a great run with lyrics reaching new heights in the 80's.
he started shifting his topics from philosophy to current events.. and dare i say it.... love!

[JKL2000]

just like Presto, RTB had that 'tinny' sound. that was corrected on Counterparts with the return of Peter Collins.
but also some of the songs; Face Up, Erotica & You Bet Your Life.. i just didn't understand were they were going.
Where's My Thing would have been better off being the solo on the title track stretching it out to about 8 minutes.
Lyrically this was when Neil started his decline. he had a great run with lyrics reaching new heights in the 80's.
he started shifting his topics from philosophy to current events.. and dare i say it.... love!

I think RtB the title track has a pretty good lyric, but you may be right that overall RtB was a low point for Neal's lyrics and IMO it continued through T4E. But I think Vapor Trails showed an upward trend for his lyrics, which makes sense coming out if his extremely rough part of life there.

I won't go through lots of examples, because they should really be paired with the music. One line I love though, from the song Ceiling Unlimited, is "I rest my case or at least my vanity," and if you look up the definition for vanity one definition is "a small makeup case." I always thought this was a clever bit.