Originally Posted by Scott Bails
Seriously, I had no idea who the female singer was until I read the thread after my post above. I certainly didn't see the Superbowl halftime show that I gather she appeared in (I didn't know who was playing in the superbowl until after the game was already over). I've heard Beyonce's name a lot over the years (it's an annoying name), but I really had no idea what she looked like other than in the vaguest terms. I couldn't have picked her out in a lineup unless the other women all looked drastically different. I forget, was she Salt or Pepa?
Here's the Beyonce tune, if you'd like to hear it for yourself:
Actually, I found it surprisingly interesting: For most of it, there's nothing resembling a "band" - just vocals chanting, singing, Autotuned into an effect, or harmonized into a choir, plus synth noises and marching-band drums. The melody, what there is of it, has some odd twists and turns and often doesn't go to where you'd expect; those changes might be a bit disjointed, but work to my ears. While not my kind of music or (most of) yours, it's not stupid or devoid of content.
Last edited by Baribrotzer; 02-09-2013 at 06:13 AM.
To quote Marshall McLuhan, there ain't no illiteracy in an non-literate society.
I think the subtext is rapidly becoming text.
Agree, except for the Pointer Sisters/Ashford & Simpson point - to me, the R&B from the 80s on has no soul whatsoever.
Completely agree. Add Wilson Pickett and The Drifters/Clyde McPhatter to this list, too.
I've always wondered about this, too. I'm sure every band has their own way of doing it, but don't most guitarists compose their own solos, for example? I'm guessing that many bands give credit to whoever brings the original idea to the songwriting session.
Right - I've heard the same thing, too, with regards to Queen. The original writer "owned" the song.
The "chanting" in the beginning reminds me of one of Kesha's awful hits - forget what it's called. Not "Tik-Tok," but one of the other ones.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
I'm not gonna watch the video, but are pop singers still dancing around with all those back up dancers? Holy cow, can't they come up with something different, or just skip that whole schtick?
This is what I always thought producers did. I didn't realize their job had changed. Still don't see the need for multiple producers, but I am from "back in the day," so what do I know? I didn't know each artificial beat required its own producer. I didn't really know they used many separate beat tracks to make modern R&B records. It just sounds to me like a single noise track for the girls to dance to. But as I already admitted, I have old ears.If I'm not mistaken, back in the day, any given song really only needed one producer to tell the band to pick up the tempo or to tell the engineer to put more reverb on the snare drum.
I agree with Chris that R&B music has really decreased in quality in recent decades. And that isn't just because I am nostalgic about '60s and 70's R&B. I try to keep an open mind when listening to modern music. The quality just isn't coming through anymore. Not for me. Someone must like it, because it sells.
You can see this by comparing Whitney's singing on "I Will Always Love You" with those of Dolly Parton, who wrote the song. Whitney probably had the superior singing voice, but you wouldn't know it with all the bellowing she does in that song. Parton has a fine singing voice, and presumably one not affected by years of shoveling snow up her nose. Compare Stevie Nicks on Buckingham-Nicks to Stevie Nicks now, if you don't know what I mean.I'm also sick of the "Look at how flexible my vocal cords are" thing that you with every damn R&B singer. ... Thanks a lot, Whitney!
We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
It won't be visible through the air
And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973
They are still dancing with the back up dancers. It is part of the theory that a bad or mediocre record can be made good with lots of scantily-clad dancers. In the video above, which I just now watched, the first half was boring. It wasn't until they brought out the girls dancing in their underwear that I could begin to pay attention. Separate the song from the video and you quickly realize the audio seems pretty vapid by comparison with the video. But, apparently, video dancing is a successful sales tactic. And, as John noted above, the song itself is not entirely devoid of content. It is just not what most of us here are accustomed to listening to.but are pop singers still dancing around with all those back up dancers? Holy cow, can't they come up with something different, or just skip that whole schtick?
We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
It won't be visible through the air
And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973
Here's the response I got from my posting on FB. The kid is around 19 or 20:
That's comparing apples and oranges. the Beyoncé song was written to make people get up and dance, and also contains a powerful message of female empowerment. She's a pop solo artist, who have had songs written for them since the days of Bacharach and David, or even Tin Pan Alley, if you want to go back really far. The chorus is simplistic, but all choruses are simplistic because they're supposed to be catchy "earworms". Queen also wrote "Bicycle Race" whose chorus is the word "bicycle" over and over again. Not every song needs to be "deep" or "powerful" and Freddie Mercury would probably be a huge Beyoncé fan.
And the buddy who sent me the pic also sent along this very interesting article from The New Yorker:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2..._fact_seabrook
I gather from that post and the linked article that pop songs are constructed now, and not written, as they were in days gone by. That is interesting, but does not bode well for the future of music, IMHO.
We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
It won't be visible through the air
And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973
Actually, the chorus of Bicycle Race is "I want to ride my bicycle/I want to ride my bike". The bit where the word "bicycle" is repeated again and again is the intro. So obviously this kid doesn't know shit about music that's older than him.
Wow, what a rip-off of M.I.A.(whose music is much more interesting).
Holy Cow, I can't believe there's a TV movie coming up about the life of Beyonce. I swear to god I would not recognize her on the street and couldn't name a single Beyonce song. I didn't even know how her name was pronounced for years because I'd never heard it spoken. I thought it was pronounced "Bee Yahns" because there was no accent over the second E, and when I first heard someone say it so it rhymed with Fiance, I laughed, thinking they were mistaken. I guess to kids she's something special, it just seems surprising to me.
Jed, man, is it hard to breathe under that rock?
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
Kinda like the "starving artists" paintings you see at the mall: they're done in an assembly line. One guy paints the sky; the next paints the trees; the next paints the shoreline...
Jed, man, is it hard to breathe under that rock?
You're just envious because you'd like to be that blissfully unaware of pop culture. And to be honest, so would I.
Um, Stevie Wonder was and is as guilty of vocal acrobatics as anyone, past or present. Personally, I love that kind of singing if it's done as well as Stevie did it. Of course, it rarely is. And naturally, it helps that Stevie is a brilliant composer/musician. But he didn't invent that style and neither did Whitney. It comes from black gospel music. Aretha was among the first to bring that style into commercial music... and was heavily criticized for it, at least by Christians.I'm also sick of the "Look at how flexible my vocal cords are" thing that you with every damn R&B singer. You might as well be listening to Yngwie when some of these chicks start singing. Thanks a lot, Whitney!
In general, there's just nobody anymore creating the kind of magic that you heard on records by the likes of Stevie Wonder...
I listened to the Beyone tune. There's some things to like about it's production, but to me, it's a turd that was polished to a high gloss.
Except for the fact that they are genuinely from his soul and not scripted.
You'll get no argument from me on that!
It is always fun and interesting (at times, sad) to read a thread about current pop music with comments from prog-based fans.
The difference between Aretha and Stevie, and the kind of melismatic gymnastics you hear on records today, is that Aretha and Stevie knew how to use just a bit, and in the right places. By contrast, Whitney, Beyonce, etc seem incapable of singing more than one bar of music without sticking some superfluous vocal noodling in there.
It's like the difference between Yngwie and someone like, say Jeff Beck. Beck can do the fast stuff and shred up and down the fingerboard, but he chooses to only do it where appropriate. Yngwie not only does it all the time, but half the it sounds like he's playing practice exercises!
Have you actually listened to Whitney Houston albums? I think you are citing a few instances as more than what it really is.
Yeah, I don't think Whitney abused it anywhere near as much as today's singers.
I definitely am blissfully unaware of Beyonce's music and personna. Remember Mariah Carey? Does she still exist? She was always funny because there'd be these pictures of her hot body, but her face looked like a chipmunk.
You're just envious because you'd like to be that blissfully unaware of pop culture. And to be honest, so would I.
Her albums, no. Her singles were obnoxious enough as it was.
OK, so if Whitney wasn't the one who started this "too much melisma" business, than who was? Mariah Carey, perhaps?
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