Great Jazz Ensembles

[Poisoned Youth]

Although that opens a question:

Great players, and great material, certainly. But in jazz, does that add up to a great band? One could argue that they're so part-time - like almost any NYC-based jazz group - that they've never been able to put in the work together it takes to develop real improvising chemistry. Which, in jazz, is the difference between a good band and a great band.

Not specifically to Snakeoil, but generally speaking this is why I couldn't really participate in this thread. Many of the modern examples I would give suffer from this same situation.

Several of the other examples listed don't seem like they conform to the type of committed touring/recording jazz ensemble that recorded several albums together (and shared in the writing credits).

For the classic stuff, the vast majority of my favorite jazz albums either are identified by the leader of the session or as a group dynamic. For example, I enjoy a ton of 60s albums by Jackie McLean, Herbie, Hutch, etc., but the vast majority of them vary the musicians from album to album enough that you can't compare them to the consistency of Coltrane's quartet and other similar touring bands found in the OP.

I was thinking about groups like the Music Revelation Ensemble and Ethnic Heritage Ensemble, but those collectives also has quite a few different members over time.

And maybe I'm interpreting the original post incorrectly and the members are less important than the collective.

[jake]

I was thinking about groups like the Music Revelation Ensemble and Ethnic Heritage Ensemble, but those collectives also has quite a few different members over time.

And maybe I'm interpreting the original post incorrectly and the members are less important than the collective.

I had in mind bands who had a stable lineup for either a series of albums or performances. A good example would be the Art Ensemble of Chicago - sure the name is recognizable no matter who is in the band, but I don't think there are many people who would say the present lineup is comparable to the one I listed in the original post. And I completely agree with your point about the 60s albums of players like Dexter Gordon, Lee Morgan and Hank Mobley, while being masterful performances, rarely kept a stable lineup of sidemen.
I am not too fussy if posters stray from the original intent of the thread if it means someone hips me to something I was not previously aware of - which is why I come to this board in the first place.

Having said that, it brought to mind one super-group I forgot about:
Booker Ervin, Jaki Byard, Richard Davies and Alan Dawson

[walt]

I had in mind bands who had a stable lineup for either a series of albums or performances. A good example would be the Art Ensemble of Chicago - sure the name is recognizable no matter who is in the band, but I don't think the

I suppose my pick of Creative Construction Company-the lineup that recorded the two albums for Muse would not fit the bill.As far as i know they only were together in that lineup for the concert in NYC and one in Chicago.I thought(and still think) it is an outstanding album,even in its short life as a performing unit.Speaking of the Art Ensemble, i know a couple of people who think the band was at its best before Don Moye joined!!!!.

[Jay.Dee]

I tried to stick to the groups which had a stable lineup to record a few sessions over a longer period of time and/or perform regular residencies/tours. Actually their (live) recordings form a substantial bulk of my collection; more than often nothing surpasses a working band with a chemistry honed on the road for me.

[Baribrotzer]

And I completely agree with your point about the 60s albums of players like Dexter Gordon, Lee Morgan and Hank Mobley, while being masterful performances, rarely kept a stable lineup of sidemen.

Also, the jazz labels frequently required that their stars record with other famous, first-rank players, instead of their own regular bands of lesser-known journeymen.

[Bake 1]

A few that I didn't see listed yet:
X-legged Sally
Matrix
Don Ellis
NRG Ensemble
Astronotes
Flat Earth Ensemble
Graham Collier
Ian Carr Nucleus
Kamakaze Ground Crew
Club foot Orchestra
Graham Connah / Jettison Slinky
Franz Kogelmann
Klaus Koenig Orchestra

[GuitarGeek]

John Coltrane: not just the so called "Classic" quartet with Elvin, McCoy and Jimmy, but also the quintet with those four plus Eric Dolphy. Also, the late period Coltrane band, with Rashied Ali on drums, Alice Coltrane on piano and Pharoah Sanders on woodwinds.

Miles Davis: to be honest, I haven't heard much of the "first great quintet", but I do have a couple albums by the second great quintet, so I'll put my vote in for them, as well as the band he had in 1970 with both Chick Corea and Keith Jarrett on keyboards (the latter apparently under duress). But my favorite Miles Davis band is the Cosey/Lucas/Henderson/Foster/Mtume group.

Bill Evans: the trio he had with Motian and LaFaro.

Sun Ra: the 60's and 70's era lineups of the Arkestra (which remained remarkably consistent over the years)

Art Ensemble Of Chicago: the classic quintet lineup

Anthony Braxton: the 80's era quartet, with Marilyn Crispell, Gerry Milligan, and Mark Dresser. Also, his duet recordings with Richard Teitelbaum.

Terje Rypdal: the Odyssey and Waves era bands

Gregg Bendian: Interzone

Ornette Coleman: the classic quartet with Billy Higgins on drums.

Jimmy Smith: the groups he had with Donald Bailey on drums and either Quentin Warren or Kenny Burrell on guitar.

Wes Montgomery: the band he had with his brothers.

Red Norvo Trio, with Tal Farlow on guitar and Charles Mingus on bass

Charles Mingus: the bands that appear on Mingus Ah Um, Mingus Dynasty, his Atlantic era albums, and also the band he took to Europe in 64, with Eric Dolphy on woodwinds.

Eric Dolphy: the Eric Dolphy At The Five Spot band, with Booker Little, Mal Waldron, Richard Davis and Ed Blackwell

Rahsaan Roland Kirk: how about the band with Ron Burton, Robert Shy and Henry Mathattias Pearson.

[walt]

If we're listing "classic" Braxton bands we must list the mid 70's quartet with Kenny Wheeler,Dave Holland and Barry Altschul.I consider myself fortunate to have seen these guys at their peak.

Good times.

[Jay.Dee]

If we're listing "classic" Braxton bands we must list the mid 70's quartet with Kenny Wheeler,Dave Holland and Barry Altschul. I consider myself fortunate to have seen these guys at their peak.

A great lineup indeed ("Five Pieces", Montreux '75). In 1976 Wheeler got subbed by George Lewis (Berlin '76 & Dortmund '76) and it was still a hell of a band!

[Jay.Dee]

John Coltrane: not just the so called "Classic" quartet with Elvin, McCoy and Jimmy, but also the quintet with those four plus Eric Dolphy.

The expanded version with Dolphy is probably my favourite Coltrane's band ever.

Miles Davis: I do have a couple albums by the second great quintet, so I'll put my vote in for them, as well as the band he had in 1970 with both Chick Corea and Keith Jarrett on keyboards (the latter apparently under duress).

I have been never too fond of Corea-Davis pairing (maybe the expanded Fillmore '70 boxset will change my impression when I finally pick it), but the core Miles/Jarrett/Bartz/Henderson/DeJohnette lineup (with Moreira and McLaughlin sitting in) is probably my preferred edition of the electric Miles.

Bill Evans: the trio he had with Motian and LaFaro.

Truly legendary.

Eric Dolphy: the Eric Dolphy At The Five Spot band, with Booker Little, Mal Waldron, Richard Davis and Ed Blackwell

It was supposedly a two-week residency at the club. I'd love to see a more extensive documentation of that run released.

[mogrooves]

One For All - Hazeltine, Alexander, et al.
Horace Silver - Mitchell, Cook, Taylor
Drew Gress - Berne, Alessi, Taborn, Rainey
Billy Hart - Turner, Street, Iverson
Chico Hamilton - Collette, Katz, Hall, Smith
Tom Harrell - Okegwo, Blake, Grissett, Escoffery
Other Dimensions - Carter, Campbell, Parker, Bakr

[Jay.Dee]

Melford, Wilson, Dresser

I am huge fan of her short-lived Extended Ensemble - Melford, Douglas, Ehrlich, Horner & Nicholson, built on top of her regular early 90s trio. They had a superb chemistry as the live "Even the Sounds Shine" attests.

Another ephemeral project that deserved a longer lifetime was Sylvie Courvoisier's Quintet featuring Feldman, Courtois, Mori & Cleaver, whose final fruit was the amazing "Lonelyville".

Last but not least, there is a much more stable Eskelin, Parkins & Black trio, whose numerous recordings ("Kulak" and "One Great Night" are particularly strong) are dominated by the lively and imaginative accordion/organ/piano playing of Andrea Parkins.

[walt]

Don Pullen-George Adams Quartet:Pullen,Adams,Cameron Brown,Dannie Richmond
New York Art Quartet:John Tchicai,Roswell Rudd,Lewis Worrell/Reggie Workman,Milford Graves
Mary Lou Williams Trio-Williams,Buster Williams/Bob Cranshaw,Mickey Roker
Milt Jackson-Ray Brown Quartet-Jackson,Brown,Cedar Walton,Mickey Roker
Frank Wess-Johnny Coles Quintet-Wess, Coles,Kenny Barron,Kenny Washington,Reggie Johnson

[jake]

Don Pullen-George Adams Quartet:Pullen,Adams,Cameron Brown,Dannie Richmond

Fantastic call!!!

And I just remembered

Oliver Lake, Reggie Workman and Andrew Cyrille Trio

[Jay.Dee]

How about this one:

Archie Shepp Quintet - Shepp, Rudd, Moncur III, Garrison, Harris

A fiery band that toured Europe in the late 1967 (Donaueschingen & Paris gigs are documented). Ruud/Moncur double-trombone front-line had been already deployed on Shepp's classic "Mama Too Tight" recorded in 1966, but this smaller live unit would even better it!

[walt]

How about this one:

Archie Shepp Quintet - Shepp, Rudd, Moncur III, Garrison, Harris

A fiery band that toured Europe in the late 1967 (Donaueschingen & Paris gigs are documented). Ruud/Moncur double-trombone front-line had been already deployed on Shepp's classic "Mama Too Tight" recorded in 1966, but this smaller live unit would even better it!

Incendiary music.I'm one of the lucky ones who own the cd.

[proggy_jazzer]

Most excellent mentions all around - great thread idea!

For longevity, it's hard to top the Keith Jarrett Standards Trio, and if you're into that kind of thing it's pretty much the gold standard. For trios, I also enjoyed Brad Mehldau's longstanding group with Larry Grenadier and Jorge Rossy. Bill Evans' first solid group with LaFaro and Motian has already been mentioned, but he had two other fine trios that each lasted awhile: one with Eddie Gomez and Marty Morrell and the other with Marc Johnson and Joe LaBarbara that each smoked in their own way and showed the benefits of a longer-than-one-off collaboration.

Two other trios that really reached me were John Scofield/Steve Swallow/Adam Nussbaum, and Ellery Eskelin/Andrea Parkins/Jim Black; both were active over the course of several years and recordings.

And another great ensemble that comes to mind immediately is Steps/Steps Ahead, the early sides with the great Don Grolnick and then later with Eliane Elias (and TLev guesting on Stick on one track of Modern Times!)

[mogrooves]

...other trios

Open Loose - Helias, Malaby, Rainey
Parker, Guy, Lytton

[jake]

The news of John Abercrombie's passing, which might now turn out to be a hoax thankfully, nevertheless reminded me of the phenomenal Gateway Trio - Abercrombie, Dave Holland and Jack De Johnette.

[Jay.Dee]

I really do not know how I could have overlooked my favourite jazz band ever: Ganelin Trio!

[TCC]

I really do not know how I could have overlooked my favourite jazz band ever: Ganelin Trio!

The same here Jay Dee!!

Pura vida!!