Looking at these lists, I've yet to see a bad choice!
Looking at these lists, I've yet to see a bad choice!
Sleeping at home is killing the hotel business!
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
You're right. But I hardly ever participate in threads of this kind - you know, the "Ten Best Italian Prog" type of list thread. Neither my collection nor my listening experience are big enough to speak with any authority over a field that broad. Still, that's probably no excuse for counting wrong.
So how about this:
Uncle Meat
Burnt Weeny Sandwich
Roxy and Elsewhere
One Size Fits All
..........and one from among.........
Make a Jazz Noise Here
Studio Tan
Wazoo
Roxy by Proxy
The problem with trying to compile something of this sort is that Frank had two excellent periods: The one with the early Mothers, Freak Out to Weasels Ripped my Flesh (or maybe Hot Rats) - which was musically a game-changer for the whole rock genre, and widely influential. That period is where Steve F's primary interest in him lies, with the original Mothers, and Steve may be right in that. Then later on, the mid-Seventies jazz-fusion band with George, Ruth, Tom, & Co. - who might have been his best band ever in terms of musicianship, but only about half of whose strongest material got released at the time. (It straggled out over the next five or so years, plus even later archival live sets.) In-between and after those, he wrote many excellent songs - but was primarily playing to houses full of his thirteen-year-old self, and wasn't doing the kind of music he was capable of.
Last edited by Baribrotzer; 08-13-2017 at 04:56 AM.
^I broadly agree with that. Surprisingly though I would find it hard to choose 5 from those periods- a lot of great albums in relatively quick succession. But anyway:
Hot Rats
Roxy And Elsewhere
Freak Out!
We're Only In It For The Money
Apostrophe
The 'odds and ends' collections Burnt Weeny Sandwich and Weasels Ripped My Flesh should not be overlooked, some marvellous music on these.
The Flo and Eddie period has some good things but also some tomfoolery which hasn't aged so well for me.
One Size Fits All
You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol 2
Grand Wazoo
Waka/Jawaka
Make a Jazz Noise Here
Honorable mentions: Joe's Garage I-III (you can make a solid 1 or even 2 CD of great material, but there's too much filler), Ahead of Their Time (would be ahead of Jazz Noise if Don Preston's effects box wasn't buzzing in the background through the whole thing)
I basically love all of his stuff from Freak Out through Joe's Garage, so picking 5 is not easy! Obviously a few albums from the early Mothers, followed by a few from the mid 70s, and throw in those 72 Big Band ones.
Ian Beabout
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I don't get the veneration for One Size Fits All. Not that it isn't a fantastic record, but it wouldn't make my top 10. I think in progarchives it's his best rated one which to me is sort of incomprehensible. Freak out is such a revolutionary record in so many ways. Doesn't this count, or could anyone say that Osfa had the same impact on music?
I have negative associations with Flow and Eddie and The Turtles, so I tend to avoid the earlier stuff, and especially anything with a doo-wop sound. In fact, I change the artist tag on any tips that say Frank Zappa & The Mothers of Invention to just Frank Zappa.
I wish their was an online course on Zappa I could take that would guide you through it all. I remember an issue of Expose had a great piece about how a guy and his friends approached listening to Zappa albums, but it wasn't really systematic enough or well defined.
You've got to remember: Progarchives is populated by prog fans who aren't necessarily full-on Zappa fans. One Size Fits All comes the closest to prog, as it's usually thought of, so that's what they rate highest. In contrast, Uncle Meat - which in my opinion is truly revolutionary - is full of the kind of avant chamber music he later separated off from his "rock" pursuits. And Hot Rats - which was widely influential - contains a whole lot of blues and jazz jamming. But if you listen mostly to Big Five and similar music (such as Italian prog), One Size..... isn't extremely different. Yeah, it has a few odd detours into blues, soul, and jump-cut deconstruction, but in the main it sounds like a prog album.
One Size Fits All
Roxy and Elsewhere
The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life
Waka/Jawaka
Grand Wazoo
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The original post was asking for "top 5"...but doesn't restrict that to "top 5 revolutionary" or "influential". So everyone is approaching it from different perspectives. If there was any criteria implied it would be "which are the top 5 for someone new to Zappa to listen to". One Size Fits All is a pretty great introductory Zappa album, IMO.
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Mega Zappa fan growing up- I liked everything up through Zoot Allures, and then it gets spotty for me. He became a very bitter guy, and a lot of his records after that are unpleasant. I own just about everything though. Having said that, I can’t down past seven.
Hot Rats
Uncle Meat
Once Size Fits All
Sleep Dirt (LP version)
Grand Wazoo
Apostrophe
Zoot Allures
Oh, I'd add:
The 2 that usually come up in my mind to listen to on impulse when I want to hear some Zappa these days, are Hot Rats and Zoot Allures. Just works out that way. Or just play "The Ocean is the Ultimate Solution".
There's more and less than 5, so maybe that averages out...
Wore those records out!The 'odds and ends' collections Burnt Weeny Sandwich and Weasels Ripped My Flesh should not be overlooked, some marvelous music on these.
Last edited by arthurfrayn; 08-13-2017 at 01:47 PM.
Steve F.
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
We don't listen music in a historical vacuum, so traits like a work's historical significance are not irrelevant to its value. If the only criterion is what we like as listeners then there is not much to discuss: I like this, you like that but not this and that's about it. I wouldn't mind some more argumentation on the subject, always hoping of learning something new.
Sure, such is always a discussion point in situations like these. If you recall, I used to run the polls at PE and this argument/perspective would come up at different times. I tried to be clear back then that participants should vote their personal top 5 or 10 so that everyone participating would (hopefully) follow the same criteria. However, others were using other very specific criteria when voting - historical importance was one element, rarity another, and items like only mentioning one album from a particular artist (say in a best of 70s poll) even though their 3 of their favorite 5 albums were Genesis (for example).
Anyway, in this case, only the OP can say. He did say "in order of preference" and made no reference to the significance of the record. Peter Brotzmann's Machine Gun is a significant record, but I wouldn't recommend it to the majority of jazz fans who want to hear something from the 60s - if you catch my drift.
Don't get me wrong, I totally get where you are coming from, but Freak Out would never make my top 10, even though I could appreciate it for being groundbreaking.
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
FWIW, these would be the current top 10 Zappa albums on Gnosis:
Hot Rats - 12.27
You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore, Vol. 2 – 12.04
The Grand Wazoo – 11.93
Roxy and Elsewhere – 11.77
One Size Fits All – 11.64
Sleep Dirt – 11.5
Waka/Jawaka - 11.47
Uncle Meat – 11.43
Lumpy Money – 11.33
Lather – 11.3
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
RE; Freak Out! Hard to really believe that the very first Mothers release was not only a double album (more or less unheard of in what could broadly be termed 'rock' at the time) but one of its sides was taken up with one track...an avant garde suite.
In the UK it only came out in butchered form at first...what they cut and kept is very surprising! ('How Could I Be Such A Fool' and 'It Can't Happen Here' were put out as a single, which may be why they were left off.)
https://www.discogs.com/The-Mothers-...elease/8450273
Not sure which version Paul McCartney heard when proclaiming (an oft-quoted remark) that Sgt Pepper would be 'our Freak Out!'.
I possess around 125 Zappa recordings (both authorized and unauthorized). I have gone through periods of listening to at least one per day (yes, for around months per cycle). Zappa has influenced my own work significantly, which speaks a bit about the eclectic nature of my own productions. All the albums listed in this post have their share of spins in my home, and it's hard to list any top 5 for me. I'll point out a few that I don't think are listed here which I've listened to quite often (enough to sing along with still today)...
1 200 Motels
2 Live At The Fillmore East
3 Cruising With Ruben And The Jets
4 The Mothers Of Prevention
5 Tinsel Town Rebellion
To me "preference" contains "significance", as an integral part of the listening experience. After all we don't only listen with our ears. The innovatory element is reflected in the quality of the music. A piece like Who are the Brain Police is the most eloquent example: one feels that something great and unique is taking place. But of course this is just my humble opinion.
Uncle Meat
We're Only in It for the Money
Weasels Ripped My Flesh
Roxy & Elsewhere
Joe's Garage
Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar
Thing-Fish
Civilization Phaze III
Hot Rats
Roxy By Proxy
The Grand Wazoo
You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore, Vol. 2
One Size Fits All
"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
Sad Rain
Anekdoten
I live in the USA. So pretty much all my listening is done in a historical vacuum.
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