Best Triumvirat remasters?

[presdoug]

I was wondering if you folks could weigh in on the topic of what Triumvirat CD remasterings sound the best? The best ones I have heard are the Japan mini lp CDs, but I believe they only exist for the first three albums. I have heard some terrible things said about the 2002 remasterings; I have those, and they are ok, but some claim the previous EMI 1993 remasterings are actually better. I used to have those decades ago, but replaced them with the 2002 ones; it has been so long since I have heard those older ones. Great thing about the 2002s is that they have some great bonus tracks, as do the Japan pressings. I am purchasing 1993 CDs of Old Loves and Pompeii, just to compare.
Thoughts?

[Man In The Mountain]

Meh. I have both 1993 and a couple 2002 ones, and they sound pretty much the same to me. I only got the 2002 ones for the bonus tracks, and never had a problem with them sound-wise.

[moecurlythanu]

Aren't most of the mini-LP sleeve editions just rehashes of earlier masterings? I could be wrong about that.

[presdoug]

Aren't most of the mini-LP sleeve editions just rehashes of earlier masterings? I could be wrong about that.

You are. The Japanese mini lp CDs are definitely the best sound you will find. Most noticable when doing some serious listening via headphones or great outer speakers, the depth and detail rendered is simply astonishing.

[moecurlythanu]

You are. The Japanese mini lp CDs are definitely the best sound you will find. Most noticable when doing some serious listening via headphones or great outer speakers, the depth and detail rendered is simply astonishing.

Hmm, the mini-LP version of Spriguns -Revel Weird And Wild sounds identical to the earlier Japanese issue to my ears.

[yesstiles]

Early EMI Electrola German cd's from late 1980's are best.

[no.nine]

Early EMI Electrola German cd's from late 1980's are best.

[progholio]

my old vinyl lp's on Harvest still sound mighty fine.

[Kanukisbrave]

Could this be a good set of recordings for Esoteric recordings to redue in all their glory? maybe even the unreleased 2000 record as well?

[presdoug]

I now concur with you, and yesstiles. I recieved my early EMI Pompeii CD, and listened to the whole thing on headphones, and the sound is more natural and revealing, than in my 2002 remaster. The 2002 CD has been EQed to death, is unnaturally bass heavy, and also too bright, by comparison. I am ordering all first five studio recordings in the early EMI German CD format.

[zeprogmeister]

Agreed. The early non-remastered cds sound better.

[arturs]

I now concur with you, and yesstiles. I recieved my early EMI Pompeii CD, and listened to the whole thing on headphones, and the sound is more natural and revealing, than in my 2002 remaster. The 2002 CD has been EQed to death, is unnaturally bass heavy, and also too bright, by comparison. I am ordering all first five studio recordings in the early EMI German CD format.

I agree with you but IMHO that is a bigger problem on Spartacus. That remastered CD just sounds so weird. All bass and then the vocals sound like they were recorded in a closet. I don't have Pompeii on CD though so can't comment on that one.

[JeffCarney]

I now concur with you, and yesstiles. I recieved my early EMI Pompeii CD, and listened to the whole thing on headphones, and the sound is more natural and revealing, than in my 2002 remaster. The 2002 CD has been EQed to death, is unnaturally bass heavy, and also too bright, by comparison. I am ordering all first five studio recordings in the early EMI German CD format.

Iirc, what you're hearing on the 2002 CD is the work of Jens Müller-Koslowski.

If you compare any of his remasters (Eloy, Hoelderlin, Triumvirat, Sweet Smoke) to earlier EMI/Electrola CDs, it's always a similar approach. He overuses everything. Heavy, unnatural EQ, lots of compression and don't forget the no-noise. He sucks everything dry with that stuff. His work is some of the most unnatural I've heard.

The early EMI CDs (80s era) sound very, very good. In fact they compare pretty well with original EMI/Electrola LPs (not quite as good, but close).

It's kind of sad to me because I regard 70s EMI/Electrola vinyl releases as some of the best. Well mastered with nice tonality, depth and soundstage. To think that this company would end up being run in this manner is just sort of pathetic, IMO. But some people like that modernized sound. It's just so far on the opposite end of what this company once was, because from what I've heard their 70s releases were treated with TLC and a more gentle touch.

[presdoug]

I now concur with you, and yesstiles. I recieved my early EMI Pompeii CD, and listened to the whole thing on headphones, and the sound is more natural and revealing, than in my 2002 remaster. The 2002 CD has been EQed to death, is unnaturally bass heavy, and also too bright, by comparison. I am ordering all first five studio recordings in the early EMI German CD format.

Just received the Old Loves Die Hard early EMI CD, and the same as with Pompeii, things sound more natural and true to life. Awesome.

[presdoug]

Iirc, what you're hearing on the 2002 CD is the work of Jens Müller-Koslowski.

If you compare any of his remasters (Eloy, Hoelderlin, Triumvirat, Sweet Smoke) to earlier EMI/Electrola CDs, it's always a similar approach. He overuses everything. Heavy, unnatural EQ, lots of compression and don't forget the no-noise. He sucks everything dry with that stuff. His work is some of the most unnatural I've heard.

The early EMI CDs (80s era) sound very, very good. In fact they compare pretty well with original EMI/Electrola LPs (not quite as good, but close).

It's kind of sad to me because I regard 70s EMI/Electrola vinyl releases as some of the best. Well mastered with nice tonality, depth and soundstage. To think that this company would end up being run in this manner is just sort of pathetic, IMO. But some people like that modernized sound. It's just so far on the opposite end of what this company once was, because from what I've heard their 70s releases were treated with TLC and a more gentle touch.

I will have to hunt down a copy of Eloy Inside, as I just have the early 2000s remaster. Thanks for your input, Jeff.

[no.nine]

I now concur with you, and yesstiles. I recieved my early EMI Pompeii CD, and listened to the whole thing on headphones, and the sound is more natural and revealing, than in my 2002 remaster. The 2002 CD has been EQed to death, is unnaturally bass heavy, and also too bright, by comparison. I am ordering all first five studio recordings in the early EMI German CD format.

IMO the EMI Electrola Spartacus in particular reveals a simply wonderful sounding recording. Full, even, powerful, and incredible bass. I get chills when the Moog bass appears!

I've always wondered if the U.S. Capitol CD sounded the same but never bothered to buy one for comparison since the EMI is so great. But I remain curious!

[arturs]

Just received the Old Loves Die Hard early EMI CD, and the same as with Pompeii, things sound more natural and true to life. Awesome.

How were you able to order the specific version you wanted? Ebay maybe? On Amazon with the marketplace you typically have no idea which pressing you are getting.

[presdoug]

IMO the EMI Electrola Spartacus in particular reveals a simply wonderful sounding recording. Full, even, powerful, and incredible bass. I get chills when the Moog bass appears!

I've always wondered if the U.S. Capitol CD sounded the same but never bothered to buy one for comparison since the EMI is so great. But I remain curious!

I've heard the US Capitol CD, and it is not up to the standards of the EMI one.

[Mascodagama]

How were you able to order the specific version you wanted? Ebay maybe? On Amazon with the marketplace you typically have no idea which pressing you are getting.

Can't speak for presdoug, but Discogs marketplace allows you to do this.

[zeprogmeister]

On Amazon you can search by upc. Get the upc for the version you want off discogs and put that in the Amazon search.

[JeffCarney]

How were you able to order the specific version you wanted? Ebay maybe? On Amazon with the marketplace you typically have no idea which pressing you are getting.

I don't buy CDs any longer but bought hundreds on Amazon Marketplace over the years. I don't think I had the wrong CD sent more than once or twice.

Discogs is easier, but Amazon is not difficult. In a case like this, anything with an issue date of 2002 or later you'd avoid, and try to find one with an issue date of 1990 ( I believe this is as far back as Amazon's system will allow) or so ...

Sometimes original masterings come back into print. This can make things a bit more tricky, but's it's rare.

[no.nine]

I've heard the US Capitol CD, and it is not up to the standards of the EMI one.

Ah, OK. Thanks. I'd assumed they'd be the same, but I'm not really surprised to hear that's not the case.

[presdoug]

Can't speak for presdoug, but Discogs marketplace allows you to do this.

Discogs for me.

[yesstiles]

I don't buy CDs any longer

What about albums that are only available on cd?

[Innerviews]

Among the most stupid things I did during the "great '90s vinyl purge" was get rid of my mint Triunvirat German LPs for basically nothing.

Among the most stupid things I did during the "great '00s CD purge for shiny new remasters" was get rid of my Triunvirat Electrola CDs.

I've managed to get the latter back with the exception of Mediterranean Tales, which seems impossible to track down.

Regarding the differences in early CDs between countries, often different countries used different safety masters to make their CDs. This could do with licensing agreements, costs of sharing/acquiring masters or just lack of knowledge about what was out there.

The intriguing thing about safety masters (often used as vinyl sources) is that those masters widely varied from country to country. Often one album could have 6-10 different global LP masterings. One of the fun and/or frustrating things about the early CD era is a lot of times those CDs reflected the originating country's unique vinyl master. This was probably the case for the US Spartacus CD (which I also dumped).

I am in awe of my stupidity at parting with things that eventually became so valuable and rare.

Sigh...