Some interesting comments here. http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/...ite-photograph
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Some interesting comments here. http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/...ite-photograph
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Laura
Nice. Some pretty forthright comments there from Carl. Nice to see them enjoying themselves onstage in their prime.
Bill
I can't help but feel Palmer is cashing in on the deaths of Emerson and Lake. It would be different if he did one tribute show or a few tribute shows, but an entire tribute tour strikes me as nothing but a money grab on Palmer's part. I've lost respect for him as a result.
Laura
Wasn't he touring on his own before E+L passed?
Sad that he and Lake never fully made peace.
Yes, and it would've been fine had he just continued as he had. The promotion of this entire tour as a "tribute" is what sounds like nothing but a money grab.Originally Posted by battema
I blame nobody but Palmer himself for failure to make peace with Lake. Both Palmer and Lake's wife attended Emerson's funeral. Palmer could've said something to Lake's wife. Lake was still doing interviews last summer, so Palmer could have contacted Lake.
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Laura
We have no way of knowing what transpired between these three lads, and what led to whatever enmity they felt. It may be a "money grab" -- in part -- to pay tribute to his fallen comrades but it's also a sign of respect and acknowledgement that he's never before and never again will be associated with anything so important to the history of music.
Yes, I remember an interview with Lake some years ago where he alluded to a rift with Palmer over the latter not wanting to do more shows. Ultimately the High Voltage footage does not lie- they were very rough (including Palmer!). I know Emerson had problems again so I make allowances for that. As a result of all this, the set-list was simplistic by their standards- notice they didn't even attempt 'Eruption' in that shortened Tarkus. They actually were able to play 'Tarkus' in full even in the late 90s, let alone their 70s peak, so that's an indication of what we were dealing with.
Now, maybe they could have gotten better on tour, as opposed to a one-off show at a festival, but maybe not! The best thing I can say is that at least they went out with a big show, after the stories of some poorly attended concerts in the late 90s.
Last edited by JJ88; 07-11-2017 at 01:06 PM.
Palmer was the worst of the three at that 2010 show. The material Emerson and Lake did on their duo tour a few months prior sounded better. Yes, I saw them in 1998 and they did "Tarkus" in its entirety. If Palmer had been honest, he should have said back in 2010 that he didn't feel capable of performing at the necessary level, rather than word it in a way that placed the blame on Emerson and Lake, rather than himself. Palmer seems to have selective memory these days.
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Laura
He lives without fear of contradiction.
I've lost respect for all the prog rock musicians who stopped pushing the creative process since 1977.
Have you seen him play in his trio? The guy is killing it and whatever $ he's making playing those small venues, he's working pretty hard for it.
I can share two antidotes shared privately to me direct from Keith himself. One, Keith actually liked much of his performance at High Voltage. He was proud of a couple of the solos he did watching back on the DVD. I was actually surprised to hear this from Keith, especially because he didn't like to watch his own performances. He claimed he never watched the Moscow KEB DVD, which is a thousand times better IMO than the HV show. I told him that, but he was just relieved and didn't state he would go watch it.
And Two, Keith had pushed Carl with the idea that the way to reunite ELP was to have additional people on stage with them, similar to other classic bands who bring on additional players in their later years... Keith wanted an additional keyboard player and a guitarist (Likely Marc Bonilla). However Carl absolutely refused the idea saying it had to be just E, L & P, otherwise it wasn't authentic. Keith told me this over lunch back in 2007. Keith said that in these later years Carl became the difficult one, rather than Greg who had lightened up quite considerably.
As far as the set list at High Voltage, they had to cut about 20 minutes from their set just before show time as the festival was running over time. It sounds very much like Carl was trying to rush the set the entire time as well.
interesting were they planning to do pirates? given they did that on the emerson lake tour was kinda surprised to see it not there. and I guess by this logic maybe cest la vie was planned as well? (presume I talk to the wind was a special just for the E&L shows though...)
also didn't emerson and lake play the entire tarkus (albeit with pre recorded drums) on that tour?
My memory of what I watched, it was a shaky performance all round rather than just one obvious weak link, and then there was Lake's 'feedback! feedback!' episode. I also heard there was a huge backstage row, between the crew of that Mott The Hoople tribute thing (concerning the former having their set stopped or something) and the ELP crew?
I think Palmer was right on it having to be just the three of them.
Emerson was playing well again for most of the 2000s- I recall people on the old board raving about the live footage which later appeared as the bonus DVD in the Keith Emerson Band album, and he plays really well on that album too. I guess the Moscow DVD was around the same period as the album? But I know he had further trouble shortly after that- very sad.
^^^
". I also heard there was a huge backstage row, between the crew of that Mott The Hoople tribute thing (concerning the former having their set stopped or something) and the ELP crew?"
My recollection was that, because Mott the Hoople overran by so much, there was no time to do proper soundchecking before ELP went on, & that the onstage sound was more or less worse than useless - & that a lot of the "difficulties" in the performance stemmed from this.
Whatever the ins & outs of the relationships amongst the band members, I'd be loathe to rush to judgement about Palmer's current work. He's lost the two people who were his closest musical companions in the space of months, as well as losing his rhythm partner from Asia - that's a hell of a tough thing to have to have gone through, & however badly any of us might have been affected by their passing, it will have been nothing compared to what Palmer will have suffered.
My opinion...
Carl has a good heart. He spoke of his mates with reverence during the last tour (Pittsbor show)
Not one whiff of exploitation in my judgement. It's a musicians job to help get people interested in hearing the music. If he didn't mention it as a tribute the other half of the people would complain he wasn't showing his mates their proper respect
No. I could have but chose not to go. ELP songs without keyboards have no appeal to me whatsoever.
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Laura
Keith sounded amazingly great on the Moscow DVD, but keep in mind he also had Marc Bonilla thickening up the sound with him, which Marc is really good at doing. I think if you removed Marc from the KEB performance, it would have more or less resembled what we heard at High Voltage. Though, it is true that Keith had further problems with his hand after his European tour with the KEB, forcing him to cancel the US appearances. But, he later went on to do the Emo & Lake tour, which ended with the High Voltage show.
I work for Carl's manager on marketing/merchandise & converse with Carl directly occasionally. Met with him many times. Carl is not exploiting his old band mates at all, IMO. However, there is a certain irony about the way he lives on basically playing music he didn't compose, nor wanted to continue playing with the composers. He's an alright guy though, I think he means well.
Last edited by Man In The Mountain; 07-12-2017 at 10:08 AM.
Why not compose some new material with the new band rather than simply being a "tribute band"? I'm sure the young guys are talented enough to write new songs.
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Laura
That's probably what they're waiting for.
But ask yourself: what puts butts in seats, hearing new stuff or the old ELP chestnuts? Not to say I wouldn't want them to record some new music either, but it's a sad reality of the music biz these days, especially when you're talking the "golden years" acts.
I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.
They could at least do a few brand new songs. Many bands with extensive catalogues still perform some new material on tours. I might even be interested in seeing Palmer's band if they did some new music with drums, bass and guitar, rather than ELP songs sans keyboards, which is a big turn-off to me.
Laura
New songs? They are just a tribute band. "Carl Palmer's ELP Legacy" is the logo they have me put on all his marketing. People go to see Carl Palmer to hear him play ELP.
As far as the lack of keyboards, I'm a keyboard player so you won't get much an argument.... but I would go see them at least once. You don't have to love it, but it's a pretty cool show in the way they interpret it with guitar.
I went to see Palmer's trio years ago down in Fall River, MA. I'm not sure he was booking it as "Carl Palmer's ELP Legacy" at that time, it might have just been "The Carl Palmer Band." Whatever, they did only ELP material.
I thought for what they were trying to do, they did OK. Palmer played extremely well and the bass player was phenomenal. The guitarist is super talented, but adapting all those keyboard parts was a challenge, and he frequently made clear mistakes. I don't really blame the poor guy as he was trying something very difficult, but it was a little uncomfortable hearing him fail to execute the parts.
Overall, I found approaching the music in this way to be disappointing. It lost so much of the texture that makes ELP's stuff so interesting. It was very loud, and felt eventually like a hard-rock shred-fest with the guitar using that very saturated distortion for most of the performance. There there was the interminable drum solo, which I guess would be expected, but it just became a beat-down after a while. To me, it was all muscle and very little finesse. There were a few things that worked better than others, but I definitely would not go again. I would maybe give it a shot if they added keys to expand the sonic palette.
Original material might also draw me, if it were good. I know most of the punters just want to hear ELP stuff, but if this band did an album, taking more advantage of their line-up, and played a few of those songs during the show, it would be a more interesting draw for me. But I doubt that's a big factor with Palmer vis-a-vis selling tickets.
Bill
Paul's style is pretty dry, I wish he would add more texture to his sound pallet. I also would rather see Carl do a proper ELP tribute at this point, with keys and a singer, than attempt original material. I think he has the opportunity now to do it, but perhaps it's too much a task for him to attempt such a thing.
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