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Thread: Collecting The Who Live Recordings

  1. #76
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    I think Townshend went overboard with the synths on Who Are You. And musically it feels low on inspiration. Indeed, look at a lyric like 'New Song'; Townshend is basically admitting that he's going through the motions. The less said about 'Guitar And Pen' the better. The title track was strong but I don't think there's much else that great on it. 'Music Must Change' was surprisingly powerful live though.

    Honestly I don't see Face Dances and It's Hard as being much worse in terms of material.

  2. #77
    Hunh. "Guitar and Pen" is one of my favorite songs on Who Are You...And I think It's Hard is much, much better than Face Dances...
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  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I think Townshend went overboard with the synths on Who Are You. And musically it feels low on inspiration. Indeed, look at a lyric like 'New Song'; Townshend is basically admitting that he's going through the motions. The less said about 'Guitar And Pen' the better. The title track was strong but I don't think there's much else that great on it. 'Music Must Change' was surprisingly powerful live though.
    Personally, I thought Entwistle's songs were the highlights of that album. I also really love Sister Disco, though apart from the acoustic guitar coda, I don't think the studio version is as strong as the live arrangement they did with Kenney Jones.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88

    Honestly I don't see Face Dances and It's Hard as being much worse in terms of material.
    Face Dances was definitely worse. Again, it's the Entwistle songs (The Quiet One and You) that are the best of the bunch. Another Tricky Day is a great song, while Don't Let Go The Coat and You Better You Bet are "not bad, but not all that great, either" songs. The rest of the album varies between terrible and forgettable.

    It's Hard, I actually think was better than Face Dances. Here the only songs I'd describe as mediocre are Athena (trivia fact: the original version of the song was called Theresa, and was apparently inspired by Pete's infatuation, at the time, with Theresa Russell, who was dating one of his friends...that's literally the best thing about that song) and Why Did I Fall For That.

    The rest of It's Hard I thought was pretty decent, and I still think It's Hard itself, Eminence Front, A Man Is A Man, I've Known No War and Cry If You Want are all great songs. Cooks County is maybe again in the "just ok" file. Entwistle's songs, Dangerous, It's Your Turn, and especially One At A Time, I think were awesome. It's easy to see why Dangerous was played regularly on the 82 tour, since it was one of the best songs on the album.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I think Townshend went overboard with the synths on Who Are You. And musically it feels low on inspiration. Indeed, look at a lyric like 'New Song'; Townshend is basically admitting that he's going through the motions. The less said about 'Guitar And Pen' the better. The title track was strong but I don't think there's much else that great on it. 'Music Must Change' was surprisingly powerful live though.

    Honestly I don't see Face Dances and It's Hard as being much worse in terms of material.
    New Song is a great opening statement, on which the closing t/t answer in a masteful pmanner
    As for ideas, obviously Townshend was concerned with the state of music (Must Change & Sister Disco), but unfortunately Moon's drumming is rarely up to par

    As for WAY, it's miles better than the suck-shit FD (no redeeming values) and the relatively better It's Hard (the t/t, Eminence and No War are actually OK to good.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    The rest of It's Hard I thought was pretty decent, and I still think It's Hard itself, Eminence Front, A Man Is A Man, I've Known No War and Cry If You Want are all great songs. Cooks County is maybe again in the "just ok" file. Entwistle's songs, Dangerous, It's Your Turn, and especially One At A Time, I think were awesome. It's easy to see why Dangerous was played regularly on the 82 tour, since it was one of the best songs on the album.
    You're kinder than I am on that album... maybe I should give it another chance.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  5. #80
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    OK, I've more or less finished both my (lengthy) Crimson binge and the (shorter) Who binge

    The latter consisted of viewing the live DVDs I owned and revisiting my Next and WAY remasters, especially including the bonus tracks in Next which were supposed to be the Lifehouse (actually I didn't need to revisit the "historical" Next album). Wow, those Lifehouse unused tracks (outside of being part of Odds & Sods) were rather good and almost of the quality of the Next album, though probably not as finalised as Townshend would've liked to if He's gotten his Lifehouse project go-ahead. I mean , there isn't a dud in those six tracks, and all of them would've found a spot easy on By Numbers, ousting third-rate tracks drawn from waste bins search to make an album.

    Anyone of the following deserved wider distribution (ok three of them saw light of day on O&S, and maybe more on other compilations) : Pure and Easy, Baby Don't You Do It , Naked Eye , Water, Too Much of Anything and I Don't Even Know Myself . All of them surpass most of By Number by a head and a neck, no discussion (and not even an "IMHO" either ), save maybe Waist , Friends and Hand or Face


    =================

    as for the naysayers of Who Are You, I relistened this morning to the A-side, and most of the songs are either good or near-brilliant: New Songs, 905 and Sister Disco are good Who tracks, and the slightly-lesser Had Enough and Music Must Change beat a lot of By Numbers tracks (but possibly not the three I mentioned) and I'll get a load of the flipside on my way home.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    I really don't like the 'water'/'daughter' rhyme in 'Water' (especially that 'and I'm sure there ain't one of us who'd say NO! to somebody's daughter' nonsense) but yeah. I wonder why they didn't do another album of all those songs in 1972- I really don't think it would have been much weaker than Who's Next. Some really great stuff lost in the shuffle, alongside the three singles 'Let's See Action', 'Relay' and 'Join Together'.

    I view By Numbers as a success on its own terms- it's deliberately a more low-key album. You can't really compare it to what preceded it because it doesn't sound much like it (save the throwback 'Squeeze Box'). Who Are You seems more forced to me, like they are actively trying to sound like people's perceptions of 'The Who'. The same is true of the weaker elements of the early 80s albums.

    Having said that, whilst I am not particularly a fan of the Jones-era live band, I do think some of the Who Are You tracks really did improve on stage. Both 'Sister Disco' and 'Music Must Change' are far superior in those 1979/80 live versions.
    Last edited by JJ88; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:48 AM.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I really don't like the 'water'/'daughter' rhyme in 'Water' (especially that 'and I'm sure there ain't one of us who'd say NO! to somebody's daughter' nonsense) but yeah. I wonder why they didn't do another album of all those songs in 1972- I really don't think it would have been much weaker than Who's Next. Some really great stuff lost in the shuffle, alongside the three singles 'Let's See Action', 'Relay' and 'Join Together'..
    Funny thing about Relay: back when it first came out (which I believe was somewhere around 82 or so) I ended up with a cassette copy of The Who's Greatest Hits. I'm thinking of the one MCA put out Stateside, with the title spelled out against a Union Jack jacket. At the time, I thought it was a little bit older because the last song on it was Who Are You, though I now realize that was probably because the two albums that came out after Who Are You weren't on MCA (and therefore, they couldn't use any of those songs).

    Anyway, one of the songs on that cassette was Relay, and since I didn't really know the contents of the original albums, nor did I know of the British practice of leaving singles off albums, I didn't know that was never on a regular album. Just now checkign Wiki, I see it was on the Hooligans compilation, which I've never owned, and I know it was on the 30 Years Of Maximum R&B box, but if I remember correctly, they crossfaded from one of those Keith Moon futzing about bits, and as such, you don't get a "clean" intro or however you want to say. Always liked that song, though.

    I recall being surprised they did it in 2000, but then that was around the time Pete was finally getting Lifehouse fully realized, and since that was one of the Lifehouse songs, I guess it makes sense they were playing it live at the time.

  8. #83
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    Mmhhh!!!... the WAY flipside is relatively weaker than it's other facet, except for the stupendous title-track.

    Both G&P and Trick of Light are too long (2 and 1 minute resectively) for their own good, which gives them a filler feel .
    And the string-arranged Love Is Coming Down sticks out like a sore thumb, given the rest of the album

    Of course, I'd kill for two more minutes of WAY's (the track) middle section, which probably the best Who moment ever.



    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Who Are You seems more forced to me, like they are actively trying to sound like people's perceptions of 'The Who'. The same is true of the weaker elements of the early 80s albums.
    .
    I get what you're saying, but imagine that all of the album would've had their Loonie drummer at 100% (instead of 60%) for the whole length of the album, then I'd say that WAY comes +/- to Next's height. Loon is only 100% on the title track and that makes a big difference.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  9. #84
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    ^Yes I could go along with that. The reason the WAY tracks sounded good live with Jones is probably because Moon was far from match-fit by then.'Music Must Change' has a pretty negligible contribution from him. Whereas live, with Jones...


  10. #85
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    Mmmhh!!!.... I think the arragements made it better, but not necessarily KJ's drumming

    ==============

    Change of subject, but I don't think this is worth a different thread.

    As weird as it may be, while The Who was an iconic 70's for me (and still is), I never delved into their individual works during the 70's, though I'm vaguely aware of 80's Daltrey (McVicar and Raging Moon) and Townshend solo albums (from Empty Glass onwards), but simply never about The Who members' 70's solo albums.
    Let's forget Moon's (forgettable) album, but i'm slightly curious as to the other three members discography

    Daltrey: AFAIK, he never wrote any songs (lyrics or music) for the band, and I don't even know if he was able to (after all Johnny Halliday never wrote a note of music), but I know Russ Ballard wrote some tracks, but probably not all of them. So are his three solo albums Who-sounding at all (beyond Roger's voice, that is) and arre they any good (difficult to tell with RYM's rating scheme) or mostly average?

    Entwistle: his four solo (incl Hero), I've never heard, but I suppose his first couple (fairly well-rated on RYM) albums sound like his tracks on Who albums... Is this the case, and are they of equal quality (including musical interplay), or did Townsend only let the best of them on Who albums?? Apparently Rigor, Mad Dog and Hero are not worth my time exploring them, but I am curious about the two longer songs ending the Hero album? Is that Who-esque at all?

    Townshend: only one and half albums (excl Glass, but incl Rough Mix ), but I don't think much of Empty Glass anyways if ypu except the excellent closing track Gonna Get Ya, which would've outclassed anything on Face Dances or It's Hard.
    I guess everyone will tell me WCF is the one to listen to. Is the content related to Lifehouse at all (I see Pure & Easy is in), or are they mostly songs he didn't find worthy or suited for the band?? My little finger tells me that his 70's solo album were considerably folkier (or at least acoustic) than The Who was, but is there anything proggy for a Who's Next or Quadophenia fan?
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  11. #86
    Notes from a former Who-obsessive geek here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Daltrey: AFAIK, he never wrote any songs (lyrics or music) for the band, and I don't even know if he was able to (after all Johnny Halliday never wrote a note of music), but I know Russ Ballard wrote some tracks, but probably not all of them. So are his three solo albums Who-sounding at all (beyond Roger's voice, that is) and arre they any good (difficult to tell with RYM's rating scheme) or mostly average?
    He wrote one song for the Happy Jack longplayer, "My Way", which is largely forgettable. (That album also contains one of two instrumentals Moon contributed to the band, the monstrously silly "Cobwebs and Strange". His other contributions ("Wasp Man", "Dogs Part Two") are only on B-sides.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Entwistle: his four solo (incl Hero), I've never heard, but I suppose his first couple (fairly well-rated on RYM) albums sound like his tracks on Who albums... Is this the case, and are they of equal quality (including musical interplay), or did Townsend only let the best of them on Who albums?? Apparently Rigor, Mad Dog and Hero are not worth my time exploring them, but I am curious about the two longer songs ending the Hero album? Is that Who-esque at all?
    Your list of four is apparently missing either Smash Your Head Against the Wall, which is fair, and [/B]Whistle Rhymes, which for my money is his best solo album; it consists almost completely of the sick sense of humor that produced "My Wife" and "Trick of the Light". Also, Rhymes has some very tasty guitar by (pre-Comes Alive) Peter Frampton and Jimmy McCulloch.

    Looking it up, there are actually eight studio solo albums: I had never heard of The Rock, Music from Van-Pires, or Edge of the World. But of these, only The Rock is a proper solo album.

    Of the ones I've heard Smash Your Head Against the Wall, which is his first solo album, is to my mind the most "Who-esque". It even has a version of his "Heaven and Hell".

    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Townshend: only one and half albums (excl Glass, but incl Rough Mix ), but I don't think much of Empty Glass anyways if ypu except the excellent closing track Gonna Get Ya, which would've outclassed anything on Face Dances or It's Hard.
    I guess everyone will tell me WCF is the one to listen to. Is the content related to Lifehouse at all (I see Pure & Easy is in), or are they mostly songs he didn't find worthy or suited for the band?? My little finger tells me that his 70's solo album were considerably folkier (or at least acoustic) than The Who was, but is there anything proggy for a Who's Next or Quadophenia fan?
    Who Came First? is basically a collection of spruced-up demos. Better, I think, are the Scoop series, but I'm very into the demo thing.

    If you're really after Lifehouse material, the holy grail is The Lifehouse Chronicles: two discs of demos for Lifehouse; two of "experiments"; two of the Lifehouse radio play done by BBC around the millenium. But that's going to cost you big bucks; you might settle for Lifehouse Elements and the Songs from Lifehouse DVD.

    Honestly, I think his best solo record is All the Best Cowboys Have the Chinese Eyes. It certainly has some of his best songwriting on it.
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  12. #87
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    I think the main Daltrey solo album which registered in the UK was his first. 'Giving It All Away' was a sizeable hit. The album was almost entirely co-written by a pre-fame Leo Sayer. Doesn't sound particularly Who-like to my ears.

    In recent years that album Daltrey did with Wilko Johnson also did well.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Mmmhh!!!.... I think the arragements made it better, but not necessarily KJ's drumming
    I think I've mentioned this earlier in this thread, but I read once that not once during the Who Are You sessions did Townshend, Entwistle, and Moon play in the same room. They each overdubbed his respective parts onto what were effectively the demos. Maybe one of the reasons Keith was struggling so much was because that he had to work with what Pete had already put down on his demo. There was no chance to, let's say tweak the arrangement so that it would be more suitable for Keith.

    BTW, is there any other song in The Who's catalog that's in 6/8, besides Music Must Change? I wonder if Keith had ever had to play in a song that wasn't in 4/4 before that (I suppose someone's gonna point out there's something on Quadrophenia that's in 11/8 or something, right?).

    Let's forget Moon's (forgettable) album, but i'm slightly curious as to the other three members discography
    I've never heard Keith's solo album, but I have the understanding he apparently decided he was a singer and was gonna make a full blown effort at making a proper "pop" record, versus making a raucous rock n roll record with Wipe Out style drums splattered all over the place (which is really what he should have done, especially given his apparent affection for surf music). Gene Simmons, he wasn't.
    Daltrey: AFAIK, he never wrote any songs (lyrics or music) for the band, and I don't even know if he was able to (after all Johnny Halliday never wrote a note of music),
    More significantly, neither did Mr. Elvis Aaron Presley. But apart from the examples cited by Sturgeon's Lawyer, Roger apparently also co-wrote Anyway Anywhere Anyhow, which I feel is one of the definitive early Who songs.

    I've never owned any of his solo albums, mostly just heard the songs that got played on MTV. I know his first solo album featured a bunch of Leo Sayer songs. Leo Sayer?! That's almost as bad as Gene Simmons getting Helen Reddy to guest on his solo album! I also remember Nickelodeon, for whatever reason, used to run the Ride A Rock Horse promo film (basically, just a bunch of videos for most, if not all of the songs on the record) on their Special Delivery show, something 8 years after the album had been released!

    Anyway (Anywhere, Anyhow?), I always thought Free Me, Come And Get Your Love (completely different song from the Redbone hit), and Walking In My Sleep were pretty decent songs.

    Do they sound like Who songs? Maybe a little more MOR, but they're good rock n roll songs. Well, Free Me and Come And Get Your Love, that's to be expected, given that those were the ones that were written by Russ Ballard (among other songs of his that Roger recorded). Walking In My Sleep was maybe a little mellower still, but it was a good song.

    Of course, After The Fire, which was written by Townshend (and reportedly originally intended to be performed during their Live Aid set, but it wasn't ready by curtain time) was probably the best of the bunch. A good ballady kind of song. Townshend himself also recorded a version of it, with David Gilmour on guitar.

    I alwyas thought Daltrey's solo career seemed weird, given that he wasn't much of a songwriter. I could understand Pete and John making solo records, because maybe each felt he had songs that didn't "fit" The Who, or maybe had a surplus of material that was otherwise not being used by the band. Maybe Roger just wanted to do one record, once in awhile, where he didn't have to knock someone flat on his ass to get his way.

    Entwistle: his four solo (incl Hero), I've never heard, but I suppose his first couple (fairly well-rated on RYM) albums sound like his tracks on Who albums... Is this the case, and are they of equal quality (including musical interplay), or did Townsend only let the best of them on Who albums?? Apparently Rigor, Mad Dog and Hero are not worth my time exploring them, but I am curious about the two longer songs ending the Hero album? Is that Who-esque at all?
    I've got his first couple solo records, Smash Your Head Against The Wall and Whistle Rymes, which I remember little of, and Too Late The Hero. Too Late The Hero has some cool bass playing on the first couple songs, Try Me and Talk Dirty. But I can't remember much about the rest of the record. Too Late The Hero itself is one of those ballad type things that goes on way too long, as I recall.

    My general feeling, as best as I remember, about those records is there isn't enough thunder on them, if you know what I mean. I mean, we're talking about The Ox here, one of the greatest rock bassists, if not the greatest. You'd expect him to be blasting away the way he did on The Real Me, Won't Get Fooled Again, etc.

    I mean, that does happen on a few songs here and there, notably on the two songs I named above, but it feels like he was trying too hard to be "Paul McCartney" on those records, ya know, trying to be a frontman/lead vocalist that "an audience can relate to", or whatever, and maybe going a little too MOR, for the whichever purposes. I think he even admitted this once, when he was interviewed in Guitar Player (back when GP still covered bass), that it took me a little while to realize that he maybe he took the wrong approach sometimes with his solo records.
    Townshend: only one and half albums (excl Glass, but incl Rough Mix ), but I don't think much of Empty Glass anyways if ypu except the excellent closing track Gonna Get Ya, which would've outclassed anything on Face Dances or It's Hard.
    I really only know Empty Glass and All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes, and I haven't listened to them in so long, I really only remember the singles from those records. I got sick of Let My Love Open The Door ages ago, though I suppose it's a decent song. Rough Boys would have made a great Who track (they played it on the 89 tour), but I gather Daltrey vetoed it. Slit Skirts I think is a brilliant song about aging, and Face Dances Part Two is a really good song too.

    Somewhere around here, I have White City, which my mom retrieved from a thrift store me probably about 15 or more years ago, but I never actually listened to it. David Gilmour plays on a couple songs (one of which he co-wrote, a remnant of the About Face era), so you know those two songs, at least, have stellar guitar work.

    I remember seeing the Deep End concert MTV at the time, but again, remember little about it, apart from the fact that Gilmour was the guitarist and Townshend himself restricted himself to acoustic (yeah, keep telling yourself that letting someone else play electric is going to save what's left of your hearing, Pete). I recall Pete telling the audience that he called up Dave Wakeling and asked him what the tuning he used on Save It For Later (which he covers during the show). Oh yeah, and they do a couple R&B standards (one was called Barefootin' or something like that), and Pete let Gilmour sing Love On The Air (another of the songs that the two of them co-wrote). I've got a bootlegs copies of a couple of the Deep End shows on cassette (they only played a handful of shows).

    But once again, I think Townshend was moving in a different direction as a writer, and was becoming more of a singer/songwriter than a Rocker (oooh, I just realized Pete might take offense to that) by that time.

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post

    Looking it up, there are actually eight studio solo albums: I had never heard of The Rock, Music from Van-Pires, or Edge of the World. But of these, only The Rock is a proper solo album.
    Those came later, during the 90's, I believe. There was also a live album, I think it was called Left For Live or something like that, which I have. That's a great disc, if you can get past the fact that he has the post-mid 80's bass tone of his, i.e. too much distortion and flanger, all over it.


    Who Came First? is basically a collection of spruced-up demos. Better, I think, are the Scoop series, but I'm very into the demo thing.
    I remember borrowing the first Scoop album from the library not long after it came out. He had a really cool synth solo piece on that record, which I think he said he recorded to test a new tape machine he had just gotten. And some of the demos of The Who songs were really good too. I remember really liking So Sad About Us.


    If you're really after Lifehouse material, the holy grail is The Lifehouse Chronicles: two discs of demos for Lifehouse; two of "experiments"; two of the Lifehouse radio play done by BBC around the millenium. But that's going to cost you big bucks; you might settle for Lifehouse Elements and the Songs from Lifehouse DVD.
    I have the boxset that they were selling on the 2000 tour. I remember debating buying it, and I think I was finally swayed when the merch guy basically told me that I'd pay about 20 dollars more if I was to buy it anywhere else. The only thing I remember about it is Teenage Wasteland, a sort of extended orchestral based song that contains the lyrics from Baba O'Riley, but virtually none of the other elements we associate with that song. I also recall that there were a couple tracks that were based off the keyboard/synth experiments he was doing that led to things like Baba and Won't Get Fooled Again. I don't think I ever actually listened to the radio play.

  15. #90
    BTW, I just looked Daltrey's solo records up on Wikipedia. I forgot that McVicar features Townshend, Entwistle, and Daltrey all playing on it, and therefore some consider an "unrecognized Who album", even though none of them contributed to the songwriting. On the other hand, Wikipedia also cites a couple other drummers and bassists as also playing on it, so I don't know how much of the album Pete, John, and Kenney actually played on.

    There's also this, from the Parting Should Be Painless page:
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Daltrey
    Pete and I both said the Who was an alternative to heavy metal, but toward the end, John got more into that and Pete and I further away from it. Because we were compromising so much, we ended up just settling into what we knew how to do best. It bored me to tears, and I know it bored Pete to tears, too.
    That first clause might explain why a lot of Pete's songs seemed to get mellower on those last three albums, while John's seemed to go in the opposite direction. Compare something like It's Hard to One At A Time, or almost anything on Face Dances against You and The Quiet One.
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:43 PM.

  16. #91
    BTW, I think this might be the first thing I ever heard by The Who. My recollection it was something that I saw on MTV, the very first day we had cable TV, and it's kind of what made me a fan. I still kinda covet Townshend's black Schecter Telecaster copy:



    An dhere they are tearing it up The Quiet One:


  17. #92
    ANd I still say this is pretty awesome:


  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    That first clause might explain why a lot of Pete's songs seemed to get mellower on those last three albums, while John's seemed to go in the opposite direction. Compare something like It's Hard to One At A Time, or almost anything on Face Dances against You and The Quiet One.
    I certainly don't mind a mellower sound per se and I thought 'You Better You Bet' was a strong comeback single, poppy as it was. That pop side was always part of their make-up, they were a terrific singles band and you have great album tracks like 'So Sad About Us' early on.

    It's those 'quirky' songs Townshend was writing in that period I can't deal with- 'Did You Steal My Money', 'Cache Cache' etc. I've never been able to make up my mind about 'How Can You Do It Alone' either, if nothing else it's marginally better than those two but it's decidedly odd....and not really in a good way.

    No question that the production on Face Dances emasculated the album's overall effect even further. Too fussy and sterile.

    It's Hard sounds better and the lows aren't so low, but a lot of that album has a 'going through the motions' feel to me. Daltrey has gone on record as saying something like he 'hated it then, still hate it now'.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post
    Your list of four is apparently missing either Smash Your Head Against the Wall, which is fair, and [/B]Whistle Rhymes, which for my money is his best solo album; it consists almost completely of the sick sense of humor that produced "My Wife" and "Trick of the Light". Also, Rhymes has some very tasty guitar by (pre-Comes Alive) Peter Frampton and Jimmy McCulloch.

    Of the ones I've heard Smash Your Head Against the Wall, which is his first solo album, is to my mind the most "Who-esque". It even has a version of his "Heaven and Hell".

    If you're really after Lifehouse material, the holy grail is The Lifehouse Chronicles: two discs of demos for Lifehouse; two of "experiments"; two of the Lifehouse radio play done by BBC around the millenium. But that's going to cost you big bucks; you might settle for Lifehouse Elements and the Songs from Lifehouse DVD.
    I didn't forget Ent's first two albums, but yeah, I didn't write their names down in my post , saying that's where I suspected would be more Who-flesh to be found. Thanks for your answers
    Ok, I guess I'll have to stop obssessing over the Lifehouse tracks after having looked for all three titles you mentioned.
    It doesn't look like there is much more than the bonus available on the remastered Next reissue, just different versions (live, demos or alt takes).
    I will hunt down the Young Vic recordings though.


    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    BTW, I just looked Daltrey's solo records up on Wikipedia. I forgot that McVicar features Townshend, Entwistle, and Daltrey all playing on it, and therefore some consider an "unrecognized Who album", even though none of them contributed to the songwriting. On the other hand, Wikipedia also cites a couple other drummers and bassists as also playing on it, so I don't know how much of the album Pete, John, and Kenney actually played on.
    That first clause might explain why a lot of Pete's songs seemed to get mellower on those last three albums, while John's seemed to go in the opposite direction. Compare something like It's Hard to One At A Time, or almost anything on Face Dances against You and The Quiet One.
    Interesting, that McVicar might just be another Moon-less Who album... I shall give it another listen (my brother had it at the time, along with Raging Moon)

    As for Entwistle's grabling a much larger share of later Who albums with his compositions, I saw an interview that he finally understood that he had to let Daltrey sing them in order to get them on them albums... True enough, since Roger played no instruments (outside of the Harminica) during the instrumental interplay, he was reduced to dance around the stage when either John or Pete sang their bits... Of course by the last tour in 82, he was strumming some rhythm guitar to give himm some more substance (even Jagger got to that point in the 80/90's, while Gillan banged congas)
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  20. #95
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I think I've mentioned this earlier in this thread, but I read once that not once during the Who Are You sessions did Townshend, Entwistle, and Moon play in the same room. They each overdubbed his respective parts onto what were effectively the demos. Maybe one of the reasons Keith was struggling so much was because that he had to work with what Pete had already put down on his demo. There was no chance to, let's say tweak the arrangement so that it would be more suitable for Keith.

    BTW, is there any other song in The Who's catalog that's in 6/8, besides Music Must Change? I wonder if Keith had ever had to play in a song that wasn't in 4/4 before that (I suppose someone's gonna point out there's something on Quadrophenia that's in 11/8 or something, right?).
    I don't know, because it's unlikely that Townshend would've left Mootruggling if there was a way out... I mean those two had a real love/hate relationship, sort of a big & little brother thing... On stage, Moon is always looking at what Pete is doing, not even throwing a glance at John and Roger, while Pete though worrying about Keith fragility (drugwise, that is) and at the same time resenting his goof-ups (including the explosive fireworks stunt that deafened him). But Keith was so intuitive that I don't think tricky time sigs would've been a probleml to learn or improvise to.


    Do they sound like Who songs? Maybe a little more MOR, but they're good rock n roll songs. Well, Free Me and Come And Get Your Love, that's to be expected, given that those were the ones that were written by Russ Ballard (among other songs of his that Roger recorded). Walking In My Sleep was maybe a little mellower still, but it was a good song.

    I alwyas thought Daltrey's solo career seemed weird, given that he wasn't much of a songwriter. I could understand Pete and John making solo records, because maybe each felt he had songs that didn't "fit" The Who, or maybe had a surplus of material that was otherwise not being used by the band. Maybe Roger just wanted to do one record, once in awhile, where he didn't have to knock someone flat on his ass to get his way.
    Yup, I always figured something like that, but never saw it spelled. Roger was a bit like Jagger (except that Jagger was a prolific writer), trying himself in movies and getting to spend gis time there on top of those solo albums.

    As for Ballard: I kinda of like some Russ' songs, but always preferred Rod Argent's in that group, but there are two RB solo albums I find worth my while: Barnett Dogs and Into The Fire (never saw his first two in the bins, though), but he most me right ftyer that one. I also loved his carved-out Strat >> it looked so cool.
    They should issue a compilation where Russ plays all of the songs he wrote for others, cos there are quite a bit I think.

    I've got his first couple solo records, Smash Your Head Against The Wall and Whistle Rymes, which I remember little of, and Too Late The Hero. Too Late The Hero has some cool bass playing on the first couple songs, Try Me and Talk Dirty. But I can't remember much about the rest of the record. Too Late The Hero itself is one of those ballad type things that goes on way too long, as I recall.

    My general feeling, as best as I remember, about those records is there isn't enough thunder on them, if you know what I mean. I mean, we're talking about The Ox here, one of the greatest rock bassists, if not the greatest. You'd expect him to be blasting away the way he did on The Real Me, Won't Get Fooled Again, etc.
    I totally know what you mean about thunder, and yes, that's what I'd be looking for in his early solo albums. I mean, he's #2 in that band and without him, The Who wouldn't have been the powerhouse it was. Energy-wise, I thin Pete fed himself on John's amazing bass line


    I really only know Empty Glass and All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes, and I haven't listened to them in so long, I really only remember the singles from those records. I got sick of Let My Love Open The Door ages ago, though I suppose it's a decent song. Rough Boys would have made a great Who track (they played it on the 89 tour), but I gather Daltrey vetoed it. Slit Skirts I think is a brilliant song about aging, and Face Dances Part Two is a really good song too.

    Somewhere around here, I have White City, which my mom retrieved from a thrift store me probably about 15 or more years ago, but I never actually listened to it. David Gilmour plays on a couple songs (one of which he co-wrote, a remnant of the About Face era), so you know those two songs, at least, have stellar guitar work.
    Well, as I said, I'm aware of the 80's solo albums, but it's not like I value much of it
    I even prefer Empty Glass because there is much more energy (at least in Rough Boys and Gonna Get Ya) compared to Chinese's Eyes' "poppy" flavour (if memory serves, only the second track does something for me), and there are Face dances reprises on the latter album, and that gets me puking. nd TBH, I even like the extended disco version of Gonna Get Ya
    My brother had bought Scoop, and I played it a couple of time, but indeed demos are not my stuff. White City not only has Gilmour, but it's also a concept album but also features too much 80's production values, but I still have a relative soft spot for it, but it's also the last I had and paid attention to.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  21. #96
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I even prefer Empty Glass because there is much more energy
    That's the thing I find lacking in Pete's solo work. While there is some quality songwriting it just seems to lack the spit and fire that great rock has. If I wanted James fucking Taylor I'd go to my wife's record collection.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    As for Entwistle's grabling a much larger share of later Who albums with his compositions, I saw an interview that he finally understood that he had to let Daltrey sing them in order to get them on them albums... True enough, since Roger played no instruments (outside of the Harminica) during the instrumental interplay, he was reduced to dance around the stage when either John or Pete sang their bits... Of course by the last tour in 82, he was strumming some rhythm guitar to give himm some more substance (even Jagger got to that point in the 80/90's, while Gillan banged congas)
    Well, Roger could have played guitar at any given point. I mean, in The Detours, both he and Townshend played guitar, Roger on electric, Townshend on acoustic. It was only after the first singer (Colin Dawson, I believe was his name?) quit that Roger put the guitar away and became the lead vocalist.

    Jagger started playing guitar with The Stones in the mid 70's, I think. And he's actually playing on the studio records, too. I recall that there's a couple songs here or there, where there's something that sounds like a classic "Keith" riff, but it's neither Keith nor Ronnie, but in fact, Mick.

    Another guy like that was Jon Anderson. Guy had to start playing guitar and percussion (or sometimes, keyboards) during those long instrumental interludes.

    including the explosive fireworks stunt that deafened him)
    For the record, I saw one interview on TV where Pete eventually admitted he now believes it wasn't the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour pyro mishap that caused his hearing problems, but rather the redundantly powerful PA the band used during the 70's.
    I totally know what you mean about thunder, and yes, that's what I'd be looking for in his early solo albums. I mean, he's #2 in that band and without him, The Who wouldn't have been the powerhouse it was. Energy-wise, I thin Pete fed himself on John's amazing bass line
    If you look at Chris Squire's Fish Out Of Water, it's very much the album you'd want him to make. Or at least, the solo album I wanted him to make, i.e. one where the bass was up front and center. There's no guitar playing on the record (he's credited with playing 12 string electric guitar, but I'm not sure where it occurs), and the keyboards and drums and orchestrations stay out of the way.

    I don't feel like that's what John did. I"m not sure if he believed he needed to make a "crossover" record or what, but I don't feel like he went for it the way he should have. But I should add, I haven't listened to those records in ages, so maybe I should withhold further comment until I can dig 'em out and listen to them. I recall, there's some good songs, it's just the bass isn't pumped the way I'd like it.
    there are Face dances reprises on the latter album, and that gets me puking.
    Well, I wouldn't really call it a reprise. Personally, I always thought Face Dances Part Two was a good song, probably would have improved Face Dances the album if it had been there, but I thought I read once the song didn't even exist until after the Face Dances sessions.

  23. #98
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Well, Roger could have played guitar at any given point. I mean, in The Detours, both he and Townshend played guitar, Roger on electric, Townshend on acoustic. It was only after the first singer (Colin Dawson, I believe was his name?) quit that Roger put the guitar away and became the lead vocalist.
    Thanks for the reminder, as I'd forgotten (though I did read Townshend Who I Am book). FTM, he could've learned a basic KB ot percussion instrument as well

    If you look at Chris Squire's Fish Out Of Water, it's very much the album you'd want him to make. Or at least, the solo album I wanted him to make, i.e. one where the bass was up front and center. There's no guitar playing on the record (he's credited with playing 12 string electric guitar, but I'm not sure where it occurs), and the keyboards and drums and orchestrations stay out of the way.

    I don't feel like that's what John did. I"m not sure if he believed he needed to make a "crossover" record or what, but I don't feel like he went for it the way he should have. But I should add, I haven't listened to those records in ages, so maybe I should withhold further comment until I can dig 'em out and listen to them. I recall, there's some good songs, it's just the bass isn't pumped the way I'd like it.
    Yup, I'd want the same as you from such an outstanding bassis (though TBH, Squire's Fish is a bit too much in the group's style, not complaining, though), but then again, I can understand so totally a band member wanting to do something very different than his band, rather than some kind of "bettered" (according to his own gospel) version of it, though I can imagine most fans salivating (drooling) over the latter possibility

    Well, I wouldn't really call it a reprise. Personally, I always thought Face Dances Part Two was a good song, probably would have improved Face Dances the album if it had been there, but I thought I read once the song didn't even exist until after the Face Dances sessions.
    Well, if Rough Boys and Gonna Get You (from Empty Glass) had been on FD and even inserted Sea Refuses No River (from Cowboys) on FD (or (It's Hard, FTM), The Who's last two albums might've been a fair bit better to my eyes.

    Townsend's versions on Gonna Get Ya


    BTW, the extended (bit less energetic) disco version:
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  24. #99
    A new Who studio album, titled "Who", has been announced.
    Info on the official site www.thewho.com.

    Townshend finally convinced Daltrey to record his latest songs… I'm curious.

  25. #100
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    They played at least one of them live, called 'Hero Ground Zero'. Mid-tempo, not unlike 'Real Good Looking Boy'.

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