Focus: Hocus Pocus box set

[JJ88]

Yeah, I've been through this before.

There were versions of Focus 3 with 'House Of The King' but not the current Red Bullet CD...not sure it's on any CD of the album. It wouldn't really fit chronologically anyway as it was on their first album as well!

I'm not sure what 'Early Birth' is (on the Red Bullet Hamburger Concerto), doesn't sound much different to the actual 'Birth', a single mix or something?

[Trane]

Sire record track list (though I don't remember it that way), but that was roughly 30 years ago I had the vinyl in hand (lost in Canada)

A1 Round Goes the Gossip5:16
A2 Love Remembered2:49
A3 Sylvia3:32
A4 Carnival Fugue6:02
B1 Focus III6:07
B2 Answers? Questions! Questions? Answers!14:03
C Anonymous II (Part 1)19:28
D1 Anonymous II (Conclusion)7:30
D2 Elspeth of Nottingham3:15
D3 House of the King2:23

And TBH, I hadn't noticed the CD finished on Anonymous 2 (I guess I didn't spin it much)

[Rarebird]

Yeah, I've been through this before.

There were versions of Focus 3 with 'House Of The King' but not the current Red Bullet CD...not sure it's on any CD of the album. It wouldn't really fit chronologically anyway as it was on their first album as well!

I'm not sure what 'Early Birth' is (on the Red Bullet Hamburger Concerto), doesn't sound much different to the actual 'Birth', a single mix or something?

It is a bonus-track, probably an earlier version.

[bRETT]

come again??
I may not read you well, but to me, House Of The King was always part of F3)

It was on the US Sire edition, yes. But I assume it wasn't on the UK album, since the same track appears on "In and Out of Focus" (which wasn't initially released in the US). So I was wondering if the UK album had a really short fourth side, or whether they got the same song on two albums.

[JJ88]

It was on the UK Polydor original:

https://www.discogs.com/Focus-Focus-3/release/628918

Bear in mind that there had been a flurry of interest in Focus in the UK during this period- their first album didn't get as much attention as Moving Waves and I don't think it charted.

[Mister Triscuits]

It was on the US Sire edition, yes. But I assume it wasn't on the UK album, since the same track appears on "In and Out of Focus" (which wasn't initially released in the US). So I was wondering if the UK album had a really short fourth side, or whether they got the same song on two albums.

It was included as filler on the UK album as well. Note that Red Bullet's vinyl reissue of F3 does include "House of the King" (as well as a couple of bonus tracks, which they made space for by squeezing all of "Anonymus 2" onto side 3).

[JJ88]

I have to admit I never much cared for that Anonymous 2 jam. Would have been fine as a single album to me, without that. The CD also moves 'Elspeth Of Nottingham' so that it precedes that jam.

[georob]

I have to admit I never much cared for that Anonymous 2 jam. Would have been fine as a single album to me, without that. The CD also moves 'Elspeth Of Nottingham' so that it precedes that jam.

The Anonymous 2 track does seem to slow down a bit on the album with the bass and drum solos. Other than that it f'in rocks!!! You just need to be in the right frame of mind . The band vastly improved on Anonymous II in concert, by shortening the bass and drum solos, in favor of letting Akkerman and Van Leer run wild. The jams were played differently every night, as can be seen in the various high quality Focus bootlegs from the classic period (see Greg Walker for pressed cd versions, or other dark web sources....lol). The version on the recently released boot "Live from Rotterdam and Texel 1971" is just relentless (I don't think Greg has this one, however. I got it from Doug Larson, but I believe he's sold out of it now).

Anonymous II and Questions/Answers from Focus III, and Eruption from Moving Waves and Hamburger Concerto, are the epics that elevate Focus to one of the premier Dutch prog bands, imho.

Cheers
Rob

[no.nine]

Yup, Sire records put out a much better album cover for F3 and the Rainbow (ideally, the Rainbow set could be expanded too.

But not by much. According to filmed evidence, the only songs not on the Rainbow release are "House of the King" and a solo lute performance by Jan (the same John Dowland piece which opens his solo album Tabernakel, although that version has orchestration).

Knowing their live set lists from the time, it's POSSIBLE that they also played Anonymus II at the show, but the film doesn't bear that out. Could be it wasn't filmed or doesn't exist any more, but it's just as possible it wasn't done that night, as it wasn't always in the set.

And yes, the U.S. covers for 3 & Rainbow are both unquestionably superior.

There are some good things and some listenable ones, but, in general, don't you think [Mother Focus is] a huge let down after what they had done previously? That's what I meant. It's certainly not among their classic releases.

Yes, it was a let down at the time, and I even remember not liking it at first. It grew on me, though. But although I now enjoy the whole album, I have to say that, objectively, it's not one of their best releases. That's why I didn't bother defending all the songs, as I understand what it is about them that even Focus fans tend not to like.

["Early Birth"] is a bonus-track, probably an earlier version.

Yes, an earlier, shorter version. It was originally the B-side of "Harem Scarem".

[Mister Triscuits]

And yes, U.S. cover for 3 & Rainbow are both unquestionably superior.

The problem with the US cover of 3--at least the first pressing, which is the cool one--was that it was so fragile. Back when the album was commonly encountered in used record bins, you almost never saw one where the die-cut parts weren't torn up. Later pressings had just a plain printed version of the cover.

[no.nine]

The problem with the US cover of 3--at least the first pressing, which is the cool one--was that it was so fragile. Back when the album was commonly encountered in used record bins, you almost never saw one where the die-cut parts weren't torn up. Later pressings had just a plain printed version of the cover.

Yes, those covers were fragile. But on artistic grounds, I've never heard anyone defend the European cover against the U.S. one.

BTW, I never knew about that later version without the die-cut; I've never seen one. I know there were two die-cut versions, though - one with the lenticular title, and one with simply a printed color title but it was still under a die-cut. So then, there must have been 3 cover variations of.... .... 3!

[Mister Triscuits]

BTW, I never knew about that later version without the die-cut; I've never seen one.

That's probably what I was thinking of, and what I used to have--I know I didn't have the lenticular version, and, although it was from a used record shop, my copy was undamaged. The second version was probably a little less damage prone because they didn't have the bulge from the plastic insert.

[no.nine]

That's probably what I was thinking of, and what I used to have--I know I didn't have the lenticular version, and, although it was from a used record shop, my copy was undamaged. The second version was probably a little less damage prone because they didn't have the bulge from the plastic insert.

Ah, OK. Then maybe there weren't 3 after all.

[Facelift]

I have to admit I never much cared for that Anonymous 2 jam. Would have been fine as a single album to me, without that. The CD also moves 'Elspeth Of Nottingham' so that it precedes that jam.

Agreed. IMO, for the most part, the longer the Focus track, the less interesting it's going to be.

[Progbear]

I wish I had the lenticular version of 3. I always thought it looked cool!

And people are really over-reacting to the amount of damage this LP sustains. Compared to something like Hawkwind’s In Search of Space, it’s small potatoes.

Agreed. IMO, for the most part, the longer the Focus track, the less interesting it's going to be.

Only if it contains a Pierre van der Linden drum solo. That’s when my eyes glaze over and I reach for the fast-forward button. He left for Trace and took the tiresome, interminable drum solos with him!

[Trane]

I have to admit I never much cared for that Anonymous 2 jam. Would have been fine as a single album to me, without that. The CD also moves 'Elspeth Of Nottingham' so that it precedes that jam.

The Anonymous 2 track does seem to slow down a bit on the album with the bass and drum solos.

I must admit that An II could be shortened before the Bert Ruiter solo, but I really love the gradual rebuilding of the track... However I can do completely without PVDL's drim solo

The problem with the US cover of 3--at least the first pressing, which is the cool one--was that it was so fragile. Back when the album was commonly encountered in used record bins, you almost never saw one where the die-cut parts weren't torn up. Later pressings had just a plain printed version of the cover.

Not aware of this fragility... If memory serves, my copy (maybe a Canadian-market version) had a cut-out (I suppose cut-out = die-cut) and a cardboard glued to it right on the inside of the sleeve, making particularly sturdy and solid. This created some kind of added interest

BTW, I never knew about that later version without the die-cut; I've never seen one. I know there were two die-cut versions, though - one with the lenticular title, and one with simply a printed color title but it was still under a die-cut. So then, there must have been 3 cover variations of.... .... 3!

That's probably what I was thinking of, and what I used to have--I know I didn't have the lenticular version, and, although it was from a used record shop, my copy was undamaged. The second version was probably a little less damage prone because they didn't have the bulge from the plastic insert.

What do you mean by lenticular, please?

Only if it contains a Pierre van der Linden drum solo. That’s when my eyes glaze over and I reach for the fast-forward button. He left for Trace and took the tiresome, interminable drum solos with him!

the PVDL thing on side four is mainly the drum solo and the final return to the Anonymous motif. it's largely expandable.

I can understand that some would prefer 3 as a single disc, but TBH, I love the side 3 bits more than the too-lengthy Q?A! track.

[no.nine]

I'm going to stand up for the bass and drum solos.

The point of this track is that they had been doing this long version of Anonymus live, and decided to take it into the studio to document on record the expanded platform for improvisations it had become. I particularly enjoy Bert Ruiter's unaccompanied bass solo and the incredible sustained groove that develops out of it between him, Pierre and Jan. I've heard several live recordings of this piece, and the bass solo and its subsequent musical development were always different. They could go off in almost any direction. And the wildly different bass solos proved that Bert was every bit as creative as the other three.

And the drum solo -- OK, I understand the criticism. I can see it being tedious for some. But I love good drum solos! And while this isn't one of the best ones I've ever heard, I still find it immersive, as indeed I find the track as a whole. And for me, it fits in on that level.

What do you mean by lenticular, please?

That's the term for the type of printing which moves as your viewing angle changes. Since there's no perception of depth, 'lenticular' is more accurate in this case than the '3D' that some call it (though the printing technology is similar).

[Trane]

The point of this track is that they had been doing this long version of Anonymus live, and decided to take it into the studio to document on record the expanded platform for improvisations it had become. I particularly enjoy Bert Ruiter's unaccompanied bass solo and the incredible sustained groove that develops out of it between him, Pierre and Jan. I've heard several live recordings of this piece, and the bass solo and its subsequent musical development were always different. They could go off in almost any direction. And the wildly different bass solos proved that Bert was every bit as creative as the other three.

Bert is one of the reasons why I tried myself at bass.

That's the term for the type of printing which moves as your viewing angle changes. Since there's no perception of depth, 'lenticular' is more accurate in this case than the '3D' that some call it (though the printing technology is similar).

oh dooooh! wall.gif

Like Satanic Majesties and Stranglers, right?



Never seen that version in NA... or elsewhere , FTM

[gojikranz]

by the way I just saw Baby Driver yesterday. if you are a big focus fan you ought to see it the hocus pocus section is quite awesome and the song is a huge part of the sequence.

it is also a great movie otherwise.

[battema]

Yeah, the Focus was a cool surprise! And yes, a great movie.

[TheLongshot]

Pulled the trigger on the set after taking advantage of a $30 off a $60 purchase for using Amex points.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/shopwithpo...primeweekpromo

[Rarebird]

Bought it yesterday. The booklet really is an update to my original Red Bullet CD's, which contains hardly any information, exept the titles of the songs and the names of the musicians.

[JKL2000]

Bought it yesterday. The booklet really is an update to my original Red Bullet CD's, which contains hardly any information, exept the titles of the songs and the names of the musicians.

Do you mean the new booklet has little info, or it's better?

[Rarebird]

Do you mean the new booklet has little info, or it's better?

The new booklet is better. It contains information on the line-up and history of the CD's and the group. The booklets in the original Red Bullet CD's only mention the titles and the names of the musicians and what other Focus CD's there are.

[ronmac]

We will have it for significantly less....

When and where?