Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 123456789101112 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 288

Thread: Cheer Accident

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer View Post
    Like all Cheer-Accident recordings, it's deeply eccentric [...] It has something in common with what is often called "outsider music", but that doesn't really describe it either - usually "outsider music" either sounds like nothing else at all, or like a very odd and idiosyncratic take on roots music
    I never really thought of the parallel to outsider music, but now that you mention it - I sometimes get a very peculiar reference to R. Stevie Moore's pop formula from some of C-A's own takes on the song-form.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  2. #52
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Fluffy Cloud
    Posts
    2,918
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I never really thought of the parallel to outsider music, but now that you mention it - I sometimes get a very peculiar reference to R. Stevie Moore's pop formula from some of C-A's own takes on the song-form.
    is R Stevie Moore an 'outsider'? He isn't by 'birthright'....

    Completely different music, but RSM, like C-A both insist on doing their own thing and kind of don't care what comes out and embrace what comes out (at least RSM does - I don't really know what C-A's editing process is, if any). Does that make them 'outsiders'? Something to chew on.

    Said the only person in the world who has worked professionally with both!
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  3. #53
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    1,315
    I don't know if there's any accepted definition of outsider music. Irwin Chusid's book on the subject, Songs in the Key of Z, essays one; it's not short or simple enough to easily quote. But to him, outsider status seems to have as much to do with the biographical facts of the artist's life as with their artistic output, and people who are isolated or crazy get extra "outsider" points. He also tends not to include artists who really know what they're doing, but choose to follow another path than most. For example, he mentions but does not include Ives and Zappa, does include Partch, Graettinger, and Beefheart, and places them alongside Wesley Willis and The Shaggs among others. Ultimately, outsider music may be as undefinable as "prog".

    So would R. Stevie Moore or Cheer-Accident count? I'm not sure. Moore and Thymme both have the requisite personal eccentricity, but neither seems to only occupy his own universe, and ultimately both R.SM and C-A play something within the orbit of rock and pop. Deeply personal versions, in each case, but still relatable to other such music.
    Last edited by Baribrotzer; 08-01-2017 at 11:26 AM.

  4. #54
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Fluffy Cloud
    Posts
    2,918
    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer View Post
    I don't know if there's any accepted definition of outsider music. Irwin Chusid's book on the subject, Songs in the Key of Z, essays one...For example, he mentions but does not include Ives and Zappa, does include Partch, Graettinger, and Beefheart, and places them alongside Wesley Willis and The Shaggs among others.
    I'm amazed that Irwin (who I've known for over 35 years - remember, he was once - and may still be - RSM's 'manager') - knew Graettinger; it's outside his usual sphere.

    John, do you recommend that book? I've never read it.
    Last edited by Steve F.; 08-01-2017 at 12:15 PM.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer View Post
    I don't know if there's any accepted definition of outsider music.
    I find it a kinda daft concept, and virtually futile as description. But generally the definition concerns both the nature of the (given artist's) music and an assumed connection herein to something "idiosyncratic" in its human context. A typical example is the more or less mandatory inclusion of Daniel Johnston in the fold, granted his schizophrenia as a token to the "authenticities" of his eccentrica, or indeed Beefheart - and often names like The Shaggs et al. But truth be told I've also seen people like Brian Wilson, Roky Erickson, Syd Barrett, Alex Spence and even highly artistically self-conscious performers like Diamanda Galąs mentioned. Of "prog" related characters, both Robert Wyatt and Comus have appeared, although I couldn't really tell the outsidery of them either. I believe the main reason why someone like R.S.M. (or even Vic Chesnutt) sometimes tend to pop up, is the understanding of an overall independence from anything remotely resembling established market logics in their established status as artists. I dunno.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  6. #56
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    1,315
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    I'm amazed that Irwin (who I've known for over 35 years - remember, he was once - and may still be - RSM's 'manager') - knew Graettinger; it's outside his usual sphere.

    John, do you recommend that book? I've never read it.
    Irwin didn't actually know Graettinger personally, but certainly wrote about him. I own a copy of the book, and I suppose I'd describe it as "interesting but not essential". Most of the artists that (I think) might interest you, you probably already know at least as much about as he prints. The others are typically, ummm, "mental cases" like Jandek - more of sociological or psychological interest than musical, although many of them have semi-legendary status in hipster circles.

  7. #57
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Fluffy Cloud
    Posts
    2,918
    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer View Post
    Irwin didn't actually know Graettinger personally, but certainly wrote about him..
    I'm sorry - I was unclear. I knew Irwin didn't know Graettinger personally. I meant I was surprised he even knew who he was!
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  8. #58
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Fluffy Cloud
    Posts
    2,918
    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer View Post
    The others are typically, ummm, "mental cases" like Jandek
    Irwin was probably the 1st person to 'recognize' Jandek's 'greatness'. He was an early, early proselytizer.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  9. #59
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    1,315
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I find it a kinda daft concept, and virtually futile as description......But truth be told I've also seen people like Brian Wilson, Roky Erickson, Syd Barrett, Alex Spence and even highly artistically self-conscious performers like Diamanda Galąs mentioned.
    Irwin mentions Brian Wilson, doesn't include him - possibly because of his commercial success - but admits that Wilson fulfills most of his criteria. He does include Syd Barrett in the main body of the book, and places Alex ("Skip") Spence in an "other artists of interest" appendix.

  10. #60
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    1,315
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    I'm sorry - I was unclear. I knew Irwin didn't know Graettinger personally. I meant I was surprised he even knew who he was!
    I realize that was probably what you meant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Irwin was probably the 1st person to 'recognize' Jandek's 'greatness'. He was an early, early proselytizer.
    I know. I used to listen to WFMU back when I lived in NJ, and heard some of Irwin's first airplay of Jandek. Back when Irwin also played, "Mousetraps. Yessss, mousetraps!"

  11. #61
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    1,315
    Irwin also talks about Monk a little in his book. So he does know something about jazz, even if he doesn't have a reputation as a jazz expert. It's also possible that when he started developing his interest in "outsider music" - and that would have been in the late Seventies or early Eighties - jazz DJs and fans at WFMU might have said, "Oh, there's a couple jazz guys like that......."

  12. #62
    Review in the inimitable Prog Mag tells us that the opening track of Putting off Death - and the reviewer is pretty clear about how this is actually the only piece on the album he's bothered to hear - starts off "[...] a bit like Steven Wilson". Although he has managed to read from the promo-sheet that this is their 18th album and what C-A's career has essentially been about, albeit without much notable reflection on it from himself. He is also sufficiently experienced to Draw comparisons to Cardiacs, seemingly according to him the 'other' band making a full career out of being constantly experimental. And he concludes that "Language Is" (the song) is very, very strange.

    On another page of the mag, there's a review of a vinyl reissue of IQ's The Seventh House. I've got that one on CD, and at least we're not talking of a band who's made a career out of being constantly experimental, rather sticking to sounding like Genesis'n'stuff.

    Prog really lives. For sure'n'damn certain. With mags like this, how could it not.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Prog really lives. For sure'n'damn certain. With mags like this, how could it not.
    However, note that there is a positive thing hidden under all this. THEY have to tell us what is this marvellous weed they're on, to give it a try. Must be an incredible booster if it makes one so deliriously numb.
    Macht das ohr auf!

    COSMIC EYE RECORDS

  14. #64
    Anyways, I feel a new perspective on C-A comin' on now that I've learned how they sound like Steven Wilson. Suddenly it'll all kinda dawn on me.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  15. #65
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Fluffy Cloud
    Posts
    2,918
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Anyways, I feel a new perspective on C-A comin' on now that I've learned how they sound like Steven Wilson. Suddenly it'll all kinda dawn on me.
    I'm waiting for the 5.1's......
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  16. #66
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    3,219
    What an album. Late but I showed up. I think some of these tunes could've developed a bit more, but the ideas and execution are fantastic. After one listen I can safely say this is a 9 or 9.5/10

  17. #67
    Their most bizarre creation, the CD-R only release of the 50+ minutes oddball work now extremely hard to obtain:



    Clearly Willie Nelson-induced.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  18. #68
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Fluffy Cloud
    Posts
    2,918
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Their most bizarre creation, the CD-R only release of the 50+ minutes oddball work now extremely hard to obtain
    Being reissued in a more easily obtainable form by SkinGraft in the next couple of months, I believe.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  19. #69
    Member Morpheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    90
    Yep, they are also reissuing Salad Days for the first time on vinyl. Their recent vinyl reissues of Dazzling Killmen and Flying Luttenbachers were both great.

  20. #70
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    1,315
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    What an album. Late but I showed up. I think some of these tunes could've developed a bit more, but the ideas and execution are fantastic.
    That's kind of the Cheer-Accident "thing": Their longer tunes tend to sound like medleys or suites, so much so that on some of their albums all the sections seem semi-independent of each other. The division into tracks could equally well have been done as different long tracks, many short tracks, or not at all, and the end result would have seemed almost the same. But usually, every one of those relatively short ideas is inspired and first-rate.

  21. #71
    Orcopian
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    West Midlands, UK
    Posts
    90
    Just picked up Fear draws misfortune via Cuniform's 5 dollar friday deal. Outstanding. C-A have never been on my radar and that was a BIG mistake. Will pay more attention to the 5 dollar deal e-mails if they are all this good.

  22. #72
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    9,267
    ^ I just did too, although I actually thought I was buying their most recent album. Oh well, having it in my Bandcamp collection will be nice, and I'll definitely pay attention to these Friday specials!

  23. #73
    I am a new convert to the band as well. I had Fear Draws Misfortune on my phone for a couple years and just had never listened to it. Finally checked it out a few months ago and I immediately regretted waiting so long and quickly moved on to Putting off Death. I addition to those I have gotten into Introducing Lemon, No Ifs, Ands or Dogs, Enduring the American Dream and What Sequel? The other albums I have heard were good but didn't really grab me like these.

  24. #74
    ^ I'd go out on a most invisible limb and say that you've arguably got hold of the essential ones there.

    Those are some seriously addictive albums; while I got my first couple of C-As in 1998-2000, the band's music as such didn't really catch up with me until after my (first) divorce in 2003 - and especially during summers 2004-06, when I brought along a bunch of C-A CDs on holiday with enough time to fully digest them. I guess it was the balancing of farce-like concoctions, grim rock experimentalism and that highly emotive 'pop' atmosphere which grabbed me so intimately - a soundtrack for both shouting and sobbing.

    Funnily enough, I wasn't quite aware how apparently reminiscent they are of Steven Wilfred until I was told by meticulous interpretation at Prog Magazine. Wish I knew before.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  25. #75
    Member Phlakaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    621
    https://skingraftrecords.bandcamp.co...ons-remastered

    This is out now - and man - you NEED IT. Sever Roots Tree Dies too. Both must haves. The core sound of C-A and in many ways still my fav even with the later releases.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •