ELP Black Moon and In The Hot Seat reissues

[JJ88]

Keyboards in general sounded pretty cheesy in the early 90s. If you listen to Banco del Mutuo Soccorso's reworking of their self titled debut and Darwin, they also sound corny. At the time, we keyboardists did think they sounded pretty good. I used to think the Yamaha DX7 sounded awesome in the late 80s. As technology has matured over the years, I find myself in disbelief how I could've thought the older tech sounded good.

Tony Banks' sound choices also went off a cliff during the 90s, IMHO. We Can't Dance and Calling All Stations have some really horrible sounds.

battema mentioned sounding like a demo...that's what I feel with these sort of sounds. They come off like 'placeholders', just there until they put something better on. But they came out like that.

[JJ88]

Three. There's also "Close to Home," which I think is lovely, and probably the best track on the album despite being just Keith on the piano.

That was one of the two instrumentals I meant...although yes, there are three- 'Romeo And Juliet' I don't even really count, it's so by-the-book. 'Close To Home' is my favourite track as well.

[ThomasKDye]

We Can't Dance and Calling All Stations have some really horrible sounds.

What's weird is I don't even think any of those sounds were remotely in vogue at the time. "Invisible Touch" makes more sense with its patches.. the horn thing on "Anything She Does," the chirpy "tuned percussion" in "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight" feel very much of its time and "relevant" to the then-current music scene. WCD and CAS had sounds that made me think, "Okay, why did he choose that? It sounds weird and not particularly engaging."

[JJ88]

^Particular offenders- 'Alien Afternoon' (parping sounds galore) and that rancid pitch-bend solo on 'One Man's Fool'. Just bad. Invisible Touch is OK, apart from the 'synth brass' on 'Anything She Does' that you mention- my visceral hatred of that sound is a personal thing!

Emerson mentioned in one interview struggling to find a signature sound again after what happened to his Yamaha. Although I preferred him on the Hammond and the Moog anyway!

[battema]

Funny thing, IMHO the latter half of Alien Afternoon is one of the better sounding moments on Calling All Stations. But the first half definitely exhibits some of the less-good tendencies.

Emerson's work with the GX (or was it a CS?) on the ELPowell album was one of his finest moments, IMHO.

[JJ88]

^The one thing on there I really hate is the tone he chose for the solo in 'Love Blind'. (And 'The Locomotion', but that's perhaps best glossed over.)

[Sputnik]

Agreed on all counts. I love "Romeo & Juliet," although largely because ELP's beat is so over-the-top slammin' that it utterly cracks me up. I imagine a vaudevillian chorus line of knights in armor squatting up and down to the rhythmic vamp (I don't know what to call that move--reference the thieves' song in Mr. Magoo's Christmas Carol.) Yet at the same time Prokofiev's theme is so powerful, and Emerson gives it that nasty synthesized twist that he was so good at, that I can soar with the majesty of it at the same time I'm chuckling at the absurdity of it.

As for the Royal Albert Hall show(s), the album shows a pretty tight performance but there seems to have been a concerted effort to stay very close to the original album versions/arrangements. They took far more chances in their 70s concerts, and improvised much more. Again, the sound choices aren't so hot IMHO- Palmer's drum sound is dreadful. What is it, a syn-drum or one of those 'trigger' things??

I have the Albert Hall CD. I agree it's a pretty good performance, and actually I'm happy enough having this which covers most/all I need from Black Moon. Also agree about the sounds, in particular the drums. Pretty dreadful, but lots of albums in this period are marred by that issue.

RE; 'Romeo And Juliet'. It's the lazy 'slap a beat behind a classical tune' they'd been accused of being in the 70s, but never really were. The only bit I like is where Emerson gets off the leash for a bit in the middle of the track.

Hmmm, well, to each their own. You're right, it is a more literal/straightforward interpretation, but I think the beat really makes it slam, and in this particular case I actually like the synth sounds, and even the drum sound works OK in this instance to me. Cozy Powell would have done well on this track, it suits his powerful drumming style. Maybe I just like this piece of music and enjoy hearing it "rocked up."

Bill

[battema]

'Locomotion' doesn't exist. There's a track with some weird noise on my CD that sounds slightly poppy and bland, but I consider that a manufacturing error

I don't hate the 'Love Blind' sound...it, like the song itself, is very much "of it's time" and I can kind of overlook it. But, I definitely understand what you're saying

[iguana]

and now you find yourself in '92 … when ELP premiered their newest single on germany’s best loved and most watched game show … full playback mode, car boot sale props and nifty early90s video fx included:



as for me: i have both albums. they are part of my music collection. that is all.

[battema]

I have the Albert Hall CD. I agree it's a pretty good performance, and actually I'm happy enough having this which covers most/all I need from Black Moon. Also agree about the sounds, in particular the drums. Pretty dreadful, but lots of albums in this period are marred by that issue.
Bill

Not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but there's something "weird" about the sound on the song 'Black Moon' from the Royal Albert show. It almost sounds like the whole thing is....slightly flanged? At the time I took it as an anomaly...but given that the drums are obviously the synth drums on that one, I wonder if most of the track wasn't actually being done live (or was replaced after the fact for the recording).

[battema]

and now you find yourself in '92 … when ELP premiered their newest single on germany’s best loved and most watched game show … full playback mode, car boot sale props and nifty early90s video fx included:



as for me: i have both albums. they are part of my music collection. that is all.

I made it all the way to 0:59 and then...

[JJ88]

'Locomotion' doesn't exist. There's a track with some weird noise on my CD that sounds slightly poppy and bland, but I consider that a manufacturing error

I like the Little Eva record (a Goffin/King song), but this is pure cheese and not funny. What I really don't get is how the Hammer It Out Emerson anthology chose this to represent ELPowell.

[JAMOOL]

I first heard "Black Moon" (the song) on some ELP comp that I was listening to a lot. The first few times I could not believe this was the same singer. Especially since I knew "Touch and Go".

For the record I kinda like a few tunes on Hot Seat - "Gone Too Soon" and "Change" have gotten stuck in my head a couple of times. That's about the nicest thing I can say about it though. The thing doesn't seriously bum me out until the studio run-through of "Pictures" which demonstrates exactly how far down they'd fallen in just 20 years. Compare to Yes's KTA albums where it was like...yeah, they lost a step, but they still sound 90% as good.

[JJ88]

^'Touch And Go' is the best example of how Lake's vocal changed in the 90s. The original is in C. By the 90s he was doing it way down in G.

The Pictures remake...actually, 'The Great Gates Of Kiev' works better for me in a lower key. Otherwise it's too many questionable keyboard sounds again.

[Mister Triscuits]

and now you find yourself in '92 … when ELP premiered their newest single on germany’s best loved and most watched game show … full playback mode, car boot sale props and nifty early90s video fx included:

Great stage set; too bad the budget didn't extend to a drum stool. At 0:35 are they asking "Where's Wetton?"

I made it all the way to 0:59 and then...[/IMG]

Aw, but at 2:07 we get my favorite Emerson trademark move, going back to the days of the Nice: the up/down Hammond sweep.

[Rarebird]

Great stage set; too bad the budget didn't extend to a drum stool. At 0:35 are they asking "Where's Wetton?"

There is a drum stool, Palmer is just not using it.

[Harbottle]

I don't mind ITHS. It's not one I listen to as much as their 70s albums (Minus Love Beach) but it has some nice songs on it. I never liked Black Moon much at all.

I didn't really know much ELP when I bought ITHS, which might help. For some reason I've been going through a bit of a ELP binge at the moment, but only managed half of ITHS and Black Moon before moving on to something else.

[lak611]

^'Touch And Go' is the best example of how Lake's vocal changed in the 90s. The original is in C. By the 90s he was doing it way down in G.

The Pictures remake...actually, 'The Great Gates Of Kiev' works better for me in a lower key. Otherwise it's too many questionable keyboard sounds again.

Have you heard Ride the Tiger, the Lake/Downes project? That was recorded in 1988/1989. Lake's voice had already changed. Whatever happened to him occurred in 1987 or 1988.
https://youtu.be/qt9TPqA77H0


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[JJ88]

^It's such a dramatic difference in a short period of time. He sounds great on ELPowell, listen to the way he sings the opening lines of 'The Score' and it's like 1973 again...in a good way!

I know a few of these 90s ELP tracks originate from that project with Downes. 'Affairs Of The Heart', an average ballad which IMHO only Emerson's keyboards really liven up, and 'Street War', which is at least not another ballad.

[iguana]

Great stage set; too bad the budget didn't extend to a drum stool. At 0:35 are they asking "Where's Wetton?"


Aw, but at 2:07 we get my favorite Emerson trademark move, going back to the days of the Nice: the up/down Hammond sweep.

things like these shouldn't really be an issue at all here but lake looked really fit and healthy around the time of BM’s release. once i got to see the tour (december 1992) he was basically twice the frame. i still find it mindblowing that we lost these two in such a short space of time – their own personal demons and dodgy career moves aside.

[JJ88]

Emerson's death was particularly devastating. There had been rumours for some time about Lake's ill health, although nothing too specific.

[miamiscot]

Both horrible records. Why would anyone waste time (and money) on this when there's so much great music out there?!

[lak611]

things like these shouldn't really be an issue at all here but lake looked really fit and healthy around the time of BM’s release. once i got to see the tour (december 1992) he was basically twice the frame. i still find it mindblowing that we lost these two in such a short space of time – their own personal demons and dodgy career moves aside.

Whatever affected Lake's voice wasn't related to his weight. He was heavy during the 1981 tour with Gary Moore but not as heavy in 1983 with Asia.

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[iguana]

Whatever affected Lake's voice wasn't related to his weight. He was heavy during the 1981 tour with Gary Moore but not as heavy in 1983 with Asia.

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for the record: i grew to become quite fond of lake’s lower, more gravelly vocal style as it turned out to be. taken at strictly face value some songs from that time actually gained considerable gravitas (“farewell to arms”) by his more restrained pathos. hate “daddy” (off ITHS) as much as you will, that song sung this way is just right – and, being a father of a young girl, it gets me every time.

in fact, i believe that here lies one of the biggest missed opportunities in music which will never be rectified again. it's a pity that lake was so self-obsessed with his rock-god-of-yore status … basically too busy to administer his own heritage. “my life is ten songs”? well, do something about it! i always wonder how a little folk-oriented singer/songwriter album by him would have sounded. with a name producer (something which he would have never really tolerated) at his side – i dare say rick rubin – this could have had the impact of an “american recordings” (johnny cash) although it may have been called “english songs” or whatever … but audiences would have had the chance to rediscover a strong and stately voice from the past with material that offers several fathoms.

shouldacouldawoulda has nver suited me or my interests. had to get this off my chest, though.

[Mr.Krautman]

I bought ITHS when it came out and only listened it once, I still have it. (looks like nobody want it) Following this thread I was considering giving it a 2nd chance but finally gave up, I simply didn't find the courage to put it in my CD tray. Any recommended player pre-programming to avoid the shock ? (My CD player doesn't accept cancel ALL tracks).