Page 1 of 8 12345678 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 182

Thread: The Show That Never Ends: The Rise and Fall of Prog Rock

  1. #1

    The Show That Never Ends: The Rise and Fall of Prog Rock

    Got my copy of David Weigel's new book. I have read only the Introduction but I am already seriously pissed off. It is in places fairly trite, certain both supercilious and condescending, and it plays to tropes about prog rock and its followers that I hope the rest of the book does a better job respecting. Wrote to him a few weeks ago to clarify a comment he made in an interview but never heard back, either.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Lynnwood, WA
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    Got my copy of David Weigel's new book. I have read only the Introduction but I am already seriously pissed off. It is in places fairly trite, certain both supercilious and condescending, and it plays to tropes about prog rock and its followers that I hope the rest of the book does a better job respecting. Wrote to him a few weeks ago to clarify a comment he made in an interview but never heard back, either.
    Interesting, been looking forward to it. I know he is a big fan.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    I have read only the Introduction but I am already seriously pissed off. It is in places fairly trite, certain both supercilious and condescending, and it plays to tropes about prog rock and its followers that I hope the rest of the book does a better job respecting.
    Does he present those tropes as part of a discourse reference - or does he actually reproduce or utilize them?

    From all the books written on the subject of the 'Progressive rock phenomenon' that I've read myself, there's hardly a single one which either doesn't somehow submit to those tropes OR suffers heavily from the exact opposite.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  4. #4
    I'm only a short way in but so far he plays to the tropes.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  5. #5
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    10,168
    Remember, he came to Prog as an outsider, researching it for a series of articles. Before that he was unfamiliar with it.

  6. #6
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Planet Lovetron
    Posts
    7,851
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Remember, he came to Prog as an outsider, researching it for a series of articles. Before that he was unfamiliar with it.
    Well then, maybe he's not the best one to be writing books about it.

    Just sayin'.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Remember, he came to Prog as an outsider, researching it for a series of articles. Before that he was unfamiliar with it.
    I don't know - he was on the same message board as I about 15-16 years ago, and I'm pretty sure he had some knowledge of at least some of the major prog bands at that time.

    As far as the "tropes," sometimes things become common knowledge because they are true. I haven't read the book yet, so I can't comment on what, in particular, he wrote about, but if it's the usual stuff about how it was overblown and silly at times.. I mean, yeah - a lot of it was quite bad and quite silly, even if the great stuff was really great.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,547
    I'll read it either way.
    Prog's Not Dead

  9. #9
    Member Socrates's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    The Land of the Fripp
    Posts
    195
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Well then, maybe he's not the best one to be writing books about it.

    Just sayin'.
    Or maybe this means that he is precisely the best person to write a book about it, not being part of the clique.

  10. #10
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Planet Lovetron
    Posts
    7,851
    Quote Originally Posted by Socrates View Post
    Or maybe this means that he is precisely the best person to write a book about it, not being part of the clique.
    If he's just trotting out tropes, he's just part of a different clique.

  11. #11
    No, the Intro starts by discussing Cruise to the Edge, how some fans are old and fanatic, about how some bands are realizing that this is how to have an audience, about how some bands don't interact with their fans, and it sort of crosses into snarky and sarcastic a lot, and I do not get the feeling of respect for fans.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  12. #12
    ^ That's sad, I guess. On the other hand, the 'Cruise' concepts DO appear almost impossibly corny to outsiders - and arguably as brimstone to the idea of the fat, outdated ol' "progger" unable to define implications of '(artistically) vital' if his life depended on it.

    But then again, most current "prog" bands do not play ships or feature in glossy genre mags or line up for niche festivals as their only viable option of performance.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  13. #13
    Member Socrates's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    The Land of the Fripp
    Posts
    195
    It wasn't really a statement on this book, since I haven't read it, so hardly qualified to comment. I was just making the general point that being a lifelong fan of a genre or a band doesn't mean you are always in the best position to write a book about it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    No, the Intro starts by discussing Cruise to the Edge, how some fans are old and fanatic, about how some bands are realizing that this is how to have an audience, about how some bands don't interact with their fans, and it sort of crosses into snarky and sarcastic a lot, and I do not get the feeling of respect for fans.
    You don't see the latent humor in things like "Cruise to the Edge?" I mean, I considered that to be an embarrassment to all involved right when it came out, and I'm a huge prog fan.

  15. #15
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    small town in ND
    Posts
    4,615
    A review of the book (and a look at prog itself) in the New Yorker:

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...e-of-prog-rock

    Take a gander at the Spotify playlist at the end. Third song in is from PFM.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  16. #16
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    1,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    No, the Intro starts by discussing Cruise to the Edge, how some fans are old and fanatic, about how some bands are realizing that this is how to have an audience, about how some bands don't interact with their fans, and it sort of crosses into snarky and sarcastic a lot, and I do not get the feeling of respect for fans.
    Question : is what he says about Cruise To The Edge ... true?

    Can someone who's been on one of those cruises comment? (Buster..?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    You don't see the latent humor in things like "Cruise to the Edge?" I mean, I considered that to be an embarrassment to all involved right when it came out, and I'm a huge prog fan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ...
    But then again, most current "prog" bands do not play ships or feature in glossy genre mags or line up for niche festivals as their only viable option of performance.
    And lots of non-prog bands, old and new, do play cruise ships. My daughter and son-in-law have been on 3 cruises specifically to view their favorite modern-day bands.
    Regards,

    Duncan

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Kalamazoo Michigan
    Posts
    4,555
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post

    And lots of non-prog bands, old and new, do play cruise ships. My daughter and son-in-law have been on 3 cruises specifically to view their favorite modern-day bands.
    Music cruises are incredibly common these days and as you mention all genres are represented, both young and old. No matter what kind of music, there is a cruise that features it. I was talking to a 20 something guy and his girlfriend the other day who went on a jam band cruise that featured Umprhey’s McGee among others and they totally loved it. I also know quite a few people who have gone on the Legendary Blues Cruise and again, nothing but rave reviews. I don’t get the feeling that most of these people see any particular stigma in supporting these events.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    And lots of non-prog bands, old and new, do play cruise ships. My daughter and son-in-law have been on 3 cruises specifically to view their favorite modern-day bands.
    Not only that, but even some "progs" with an ever so faint hipster-credential go cruisin' - like Knifeworld (next year). So that can't be the point.

    The tropes would only "count" if they somehow complied with actuality, as you say; the truth being that the decadence of lobsters in the tub, Persian carpets on stage, revolving drumpodiums etc. were NEVER exclusive to progressive rock and thus neither appliable as document to its purportedly inherent bombast and self-importance. I'd dare say rural meadow fences and cardboard cattle/sheep in the studio were likely quite exclusive to one band, though.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post


    And lots of non-prog bands, old and new, do play cruise ships. My daughter and son-in-law have been on 3 cruises specifically to view their favorite modern-day bands.
    And each and every one of them should be embarrassed as hell to do it, IMO.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    And each and every one of them should be embarrassed as hell to do it, IMO.
    Not in 2017. Rock music is an altogether dying creed & breed, and this is essentially about survival to the last. I guess that's a despicable or honourless manner to some, but I can see it. If the ship's going down either way, why not just stay aboard it.

    No pun. We're at Toynbee's and Spengler's final stage here anyway, and we don't know what comes after.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  21. #21

  22. #22
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    42°09′30″N 71°08′43″W
    Posts
    3,535
    http://www.npr.org/2017/06/13/531929...campaign=books

    As the '60s came to a close, the strange, swirling sounds of psychedelia emboldened Emerson, Phil Collins of Genesis, Robert Fripp of King Crimson and many others to expand rock's rudimentary template into something far more elaborate and symphonic in scope

  23. #23
    Have not read the book, probably will, but I just wanted to put the record straight on the cruise thing. Just because it has become normal, and includes all kinds of genres, it does not mean that music cruises are not corny and do not embody everything that rock'n'roll is NOT. C'mon. I have no problem with commercial music, or making a buck or anything else. I have no real problem with these music cruises either. But anyone who takes a step or two back can see that a prog cruise is pretty much the perfect antidote to anything that progressive rock originally stood for. Counter-culture, spirituality, art over commerce, challenge over comfort ... So without having read the book I would say the author has every right to be a bit snarky about *progressive rock* cruises ...

  24. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    1,619
    I've never been on a cruise, and probably won't ever go on one - but in some ways, I can't see them as too different from Progday or other festivals. There's bands, there's an audience, they're all in the same small area, and part of the attraction is hanging with the bands and doing things like talking music with Kavus Torabi, jamming with Thijs Van Leer, or getting the bass player for Beardfish so drunk that he cannot stand up, walk, or speak intelligibly in English or Swedish. Now there IS the issue of cost - but I fly in to Progday every year, many people take multi-day road trips to get there, and none of that is exactly cheap. And quite a few prog-fans these days are empty-nesters with good jobs, and able to afford it.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    anyone who takes a step or two back
    We don't step back, we're progressive and always only move FORWARD!
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •