Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567
Results 151 to 172 of 172

Thread: Neal Schon/Jonathan Cain Journey turmoil?

  1. #151
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Planet Lovetron
    Posts
    13,023
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    OK, that sounds like an urban legend to me, like the Love Rollercoaster and In The Air Tonight stories.

    I dunno, it makes a lot of more sense that he just made up the word while working on the demo. A lot of songwriters, will focus more on what the vocal melody is before they even think about what the real words to the song are gonna be. So it makes senses that he was sort of scat/vocalese singing, not really thinking about sounds so much as the notes and the rhythm of the melody. A nonsense word pops out of his mouth. He's unable to come up with something that means anything that works as well with the melody, so he builds the whole lyric around this made up word.

    And like I said, I suspect the same thing happened with Abacab, only there they had probably written that down as a working title, with the idea of calling it something else once the lyric was written. But then it's realized "Abacab" has a nice rhythm sound to it, and fits perfectly into the melody, so they end up keeping it.

    And like I said, Phil (or whoever wrote the words for Abacab) is far from the only person to use nonsense words. Case in point: The Joker, by Steve Miller Band, uses the word "pompatus", which apparently was derived from Miller himself mishearing a word (also made up) in a song by The Medallions.
    You are of course entitled to your opinion. It's too long ago for me to remember specifics in regard to the source, but I was a huge Genesis fan who hadn't quite closed the door on them. I thought the source and info were solid, and frankly didn't give it much thought in the intervening years. I don't see your scat vocalization theory as being any more (or less) likely than a Japanese guy with stuttering/pronunciation issues from a statistical probability viewpoint, so no, I don't think it makes more sense. I'll stick with what I wrote and you can stick with Wiki, and the world will spin blissfully unaffected.

  2. #152
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Vallejo, CA
    Posts
    1,012
    This is kind of how latter-day Genesis/Phil worked sometimes. "No Son Of Mine" came about because Phil was singing "ya nasa ya nasanna bye" or something like that to the demo track, and someone told him it sounded like "You're no son of mine." Phil must have been relieved to have someone make that suggestion!
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  3. #153
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Planet Lovetron
    Posts
    13,023
    Phil doing scat vocals during the songwriting process is totally believable. Phil not being able to find a better word than "Sussudio" is not.

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Phil not being able to find a better word than "Sussudio" is not.
    Well, it was the 80s and people ate it up just fine. At the rate he was cranking out music and making tons of money, I'm not sure if he felt he needed to spend much time making sense.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Phil doing scat vocals during the songwriting process is totally believable. Phil not being able to find a better word than "Sussudio" is not.
    WEll, it happens sometimes. I suppose it's subjective, but maybe he felt there wasn't anything that fit the rhythm of the melody and worked as well as Sussudio.

    Well, it was the 80s and people ate it up just fine. At the rate he was cranking out music and making tons of money, I'm not sure if he felt he needed to spend much time making sense.
    If you read the lyric sheets, it's clear that he (and in the case of Genesis, Mike and/or Tony) spent a lot of time coming up with lyrics that "made sense", so I'm sure it wasn't about that so much as having something that "sounded right". Sometimes it's more important to have something that sounds good than something that people who don't particular like the music at all will be able to understand.

    I mean, that's what rock n roll is all about, in'it?

  6. #156
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    La Florida
    Posts
    7,554
    I always thought Sussudio was Phil doing his Prince imitation.

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Sometimes it's more important to have something that sounds good than something that people who don't particular like the music at all will be able to understand.
    Like I stated, the 80s.

    (BTW, you're taking my reply too seriously.)
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Like I stated, the 80s.
    Not, just the 80's. There were songs with nonsense lyrics going back to the 40's (if not earlier). How else do you explain the popularity of something like Rag Mop?!

    And lots of writers and poets invent words too, like Dr Seuss, Kurt Vonnegut, etc.
    I always thought Sussudio was Phil doing his Prince imitation.
    It does kind of sound like he was trying to write his own version of 1999, doesn't it?

  9. #159
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    La Florida
    Posts
    7,554
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    It does kind of sound like he was trying to write his own version of 1999, doesn't it?
    Yes. The first time I heard Sussudio on the radio in 198whatever I thought it was a cop on 1999.

  10. #160
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    La Florida
    Posts
    7,554
    One other Phil track I liked was Easy Lover, the duet with Phil Bailey from EW&F. It's a guilty pleasure.

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Which was my point. Presumably, at whatever point the word "Abacab" came into it, they must not have been able to find anything that actual meant something, that sounded as good, something Phil would repeat a few years later with Sussudio.

    And as I understand it, it's the chord sequence, it's the ordering of the various sections of the song, though the order they appear in the final song is different from what they were in when Abacab first appeared as working title.
    Right, although coincidentally, the guitar hook of the song is an A chord followed by a B chord. (No C though.)

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    One other Phil track I liked was Easy Lover, the duet with Phil Bailey from EW&F. It's a guilty pleasure.
    Yeah, that was a good song. I always liked the video, where Phil pulls out the Egyptian outfits, with a big smile on his face, and Phillip Bailey just sort of rolls his eyes at him. Always thought that was funny.

    And while we're picking on Phil, there was bit in the Genesis documentary video that came out in the early 90's, at the beginning, where they're at Knebworth, and there's this bit where Phil mentions the Tears For Fears song Sowing The Seeds Of Love, but then the audio abruptly cuts away, and I've always wondered he said about it.

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Not, just the 80's. There were songs with nonsense lyrics going back to the 40's (if not earlier). How else do you explain the popularity of something like Rag Mop?!

    And lots of writers and poets invent words too, like Dr Seuss, Kurt Vonnegut, etc.
    I don't need any lessons. I am quite aware of nonsense lyrics and scat in our history which goes a lot further back than the 40s.

    I am not looking for a debate. I thought I was clear that I was being a bit unserious.

    BTW, my comment was more about the 80s market than anything.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  14. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by pb2015 View Post
    Right, although coincidentally, the guitar hook of the song is an A chord followed by a B chord. (No C though.)
    That's true. I think that was just about the first Genesis song I really heard, and I always dug that guitar riff. Kinda sounds like a Keith Richards thing or something.

    I read somewhere that Abacab itself was their homage to The Stones, The Easybeats and Booker T And The MG's. OK, I can kinda see the Stones in the guitar riff, and I suppose there's a bit of Booker T and Tony's synth parts on that track, but I never did understand where The Easybeats come into it. Then again, like most Americans (the ones who've heard of The Easybeats, anyway), I really only know Friday On My Mind, so I'm not really that conversant on that particular band.

  15. #165
    Member paythesnuka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Posts
    194
    Wait, did Phil Collins replace Jonathan Cain in Journey?
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and... clever" -- David St. Hubbins & Derek Smalls, Spinal Tap

  16. #166
    NEARfest Officer Emeritus Nearfest2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by paythesnuka View Post
    Wait, did Phil Collins replace Jonathan Cain in Journey?
    No no. He said Phil Collins needs a cane for his journey.
    Chad

  17. #167
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Near Philly, PA
    Posts
    6,583
    Bravo
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  18. #168
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    small town in ND
    Posts
    6,432
    Damn, that's the post of the month right there.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  19. #169
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Burlington Twp, NJ
    Posts
    2,272
    In response to this article from "The Hill" about Cain being spotted in the White House, Schon posted this today:

    Wow this is not the Journey I started in 1972 and have been fighting to protect since the beginning.
    I've discussed this many times with Managment and council and they both agreed that there should never be anything to do with religious beliefs or politics with Journey.
    I do not want anyone to think my wife and I are affiliated in anyway with this at all. I've been fighting to protect for the last 2 years.
    This is Not Me or my wife.
    Neal Schon

  20. #170
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Near Philly, PA
    Posts
    6,583
    Schon had to be furious with that.

    This isn't going to end well.

    Interesting that it's Schon vs. Cain. Where does Ross Valory fall on this?
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  21. #171
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Burlington Twp, NJ
    Posts
    2,272
    And in a clear shot at Cain's daily Christian postings, Schon and his wife posted this:

    please hear us lord
    Protect Neal and what he has built JOURNEY
    72 - Eternity
    Journey Tour 2017

  22. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    One other Phil track I liked was Easy Lover, the duet with Phil Bailey from EW&F. It's a guilty pleasure.
    I HATED that song back then, but I heard it the other day and I'd almost consider it pretty cool now. Not sure how I feel about that development.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •