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Thread: The latest from Brian Lane, despicable hatchet man for ARW

  1. #401
    Member lazland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    I came into prog later, at the end of the 1980s. My first two albums with John Wetton on them were Asia and Larks' Tongues in Aspic. I wasn't plugged into any fandom to tell me that the latter was "good Wetton" and the former "bad Wetton". Now, some while after his death, I've been listening to some recent purchases like Howe's Anthology 2 (with several Asia tracks), Heat of the Rising Sun (live Wetton/Downes iCon album) and the big UK boxset... and I listen with joy to an artist whose career I enjoy and celebrate. Sure, Wetton made some better and worse songs over his career, but looking back over the whole of his career, I hear plenty of continuity: the same voice, the same melodic sense, the same style of bass playing... and even his weaker material still reminds me of who he was as an artist.

    I get how, as a historical fact, Asia came as a surprise to many fans of UK/ELP/Drama, but it was 35 years ago, so I hope people are over it by now. Can we look back on Wetton's career with a new narrative, seeing it as a whole, rather than as the good times vs the betrayal?

    Henry
    I got into prog earlier, in 1976, but I agree wholeheartedly with every word of this excellent post.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Isn't there an issue about the Platinum certification only being introduced in the late '70s, so earlier albums missed out unless they kept selling after that date too?

    Henry
    There were special rules for albums sold before 1972, due to the availability of sales records.

    Also, the certification dropped. A gold album was 1,000,000 units until it was reduced to 500,000 in 1975. In addition, in 1992 they changed the rules for double albums, so each LP is counted when determining sales.

    Both Tales and Relayer were certified in 1974, and I don't know if they retroactively modified the certifications. I don't think they did. And it wasn't resubmitted. Regardless, it would appear that any sales since 1974 aren't accounted for.

    I also think the column for "certified sales" is a generic number based on the certification. So if it's gold, it says .5 million.

    For example, Yessongs was certified in 1973 (as Gold) and 1998 (as Platinum), and it states certified sales of 1,000,000.

    But if it was Gold in 1973, then it would have sold at least 1,000,000 copies to receive that certification in 1973.

    Which means in 1998, it should have been at least triple platinum, since as a triple album each record is counted. So if sales were 1,000,000 in 1973 (which it had to be to get a Gold certification), it would qualify as 3,000,000 sold as of 1992, and that's not including any sales since March 17, 1973. So certified sales of 1,000,000 seem pretty bogus.

    Likewise, if Tales was certified Gold in 1974 (which it was), then it must have sold 1,000,000 copies to that point (despite the fact that the database and Wikipedia say 500,000 units). Starting in 1992 those 1,000,000 in sales are now 2,000,000 in sales, and that it was released 3 different times on CD, I find it hard to believe that there haven't been another 1,000,000 copies sold, but even if there were only 1,000 copies sold from the first CD release in 1994 to now, it seems like it should at least be 2x Platinum.

    It seems it's not a terribly reliable source of sales information to me, their math just doesn't add up.

  3. #403
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    I was totally resistant to Asia from when they first hit the scene because it so dominated MTV, but a few years ago I started acquiring their later catalog with an open mind and found I really like Wetton's lyrics. He had a nice touch for capturing the trials and tribulations of an "ordinary/extroardinary life." It also helped for a year I read the Classic Rock Society's magazine and Wetton's column in there showed he was a very kind soul who encouraged and appreciated new talent. He was generous with his praise.

    I of course love him with Crimson and UK but I'm now more open to what he did later in his career.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by rghammill View Post
    It seems it's not a terribly reliable source of sales information to me, their math just doesn't add up.
    Thanks for the information.

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    I came into prog later, at the end of the 1980s. My first two albums with John Wetton on them were Asia and Larks' Tongues in Aspic. I wasn't plugged into any fandom to tell me that the latter was "good Wetton" and the former "bad Wetton". Now, some while after his death, I've been listening to some recent purchases like Howe's Anthology 2 (with several Asia tracks), Heat of the Rising Sun (live Wetton/Downes iCon album) and the big UK boxset... and I listen with joy to an artist whose career I enjoy and celebrate. Sure, Wetton made some better and worse songs over his career, but looking back over the whole of his career, I hear plenty of continuity: the same voice, the same melodic sense, the same style of bass playing... and even his weaker material still reminds me of who he was as an artist.

    I get how, as a historical fact, Asia came as a surprise to many fans of UK/ELP/Drama, but it was 35 years ago, so I hope people are over it by now. Can we look back on Wetton's career with a new narrative, seeing it as a whole, rather than as the good times vs the betrayal?

    Henry
    I started right in the mid-'80s. 90125 was the first I'd heard of Yes (and was the first concert I went to), and then got Fragile, Classic Yes, Yessongs, and Drama if I recall. This was the same time that I heard Asia, and Moving Pictures, among many other things (like Judas Priest Screaming for Vengeance, for example), and I was also digging deep into ELO's catalog at the time (actually, I think "Time" was the first album I picked up, then went to Face the Music, II, Out of the Blue, etc.). Hard to remember the order. I'm pretty sure I bought Piper before the Wall (it was cheaper), but heard The Present before Voices in the Sky and then This is the Moody Blues.

    To me, Drama, Moving Pictures, and Asia are all variations of mixing prog and more straightforward rock. But since I came into these bands through those albums, perhaps the evolution seemed stronger to me. Discipline was my introduction to King Crimson, for example, then A Young Person's Guide to... and Robert Fripp/League of Gentlemen God Save the King, which sort of bridges the gap between the two.

    Wetton's Monkey Business makes it very clear, but it's not hard to separate the song in Starless from the rest of the music, for example, it's really just another Wetton song. And John said in past interviews that his major contribution to any band were the songs themselves. The arrangements were from the bands. For example, starting on an off-beat on Time Again was Steve Howe's doing.

    I think that it's the arrangements and not the songs themselves. The later Asia albums released by the classic line-up suffer more due to this (and in particular the lack of Howe on them). They remind me of a lot of Wetton's solo material, that feel more like demos than completed arrangements, but the songs themselves are generally pretty solid. One of my favorite examples to show people about how much an arrangement matters is the demo version vs the finished version of Turn of the Century on Going for the One. Solid song, and a killer arrangement on the final version, but you wouldn't know it if you only heard the first arrangement.

    -Randy

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