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Thread: King Crimson Asbury Park 1974/ USA album

  1. #1

    King Crimson Asbury Park 1974/ USA album

    Since 1975 we've had *4* different masterings or mixes of the original USA album.

    - original 1975 LP/cassette USA mix & mastering (sourced from Asbury Park and Providence concerts, with Eddie Jobson overdubs)

    - 30th Anniversary USA remastering for CD (and expansion to include all the other Asbury Park concert tracks). The USA mix of the improv track 'Asbury Park' was also made available previously on the Frame by Frame boxed set.

    - 2005 mix (by Ronan Chris Murphy) of the whole Asbury Park concert (first offered online by DGM) (UPDATE: and then released on CD as part of The Collectible King Crimson Vol 1)

    - 2013 mix (by Fripp and Singleton) of the whole Asbury Park concert (first offered in the Road to Red boxed set) (CORRECTION: first offered on the 40th Anniversary edition of USA)

    All four versions are available for comparison on the Road to Red Bluray disc 2. It's kind of interesting to hear how different they are . I still prefer the original LP mix/mastering (available as a UK vinyl transfer on Road to Red) , where Wetton's bass growls fiercely. It's still growling on the 30th Anniversary remastering, but unfortunately there's an irritating new layer of reverb added to everything, and it's much louder. The 2005 mix keeps the growl and and also makes everything louder/compressed, but there's no annoying additional reverb, so this my best alternative (though Cross's mellotron noodling on the 'Asbury Park' improv is not a revelation). The 2013 remix restored the dynamic range missing on the 2005, but emasculates Wetton's bass almost completely -- the worst alternative.

    The Frame By Frame 'Asbury Park' improv, to my knowledge, is the only digital transfer ever made available directly from the USA album masters, and pretty valuable for that (it sounds great).

    Other opinions?
    Last edited by ssully; 04-28-2017 at 11:38 AM.

  2. #2
    Which mix of the Asbury Park show is on the following?

    -40th anniversary Cd + Dvd set of "USA"

    -The Collectable King Crimson Volume One

  3. #3
    Cross' contributions only detract from what it otherwise a brilliant trio improv. Probably the hardest thing they ever recorded.
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  4. #4
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splicer View Post
    Cross' contributions only detract.
    +1
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by yesstiles View Post
    Which mix of the Asbury Park show is on the following?

    -40th anniversary Cd + Dvd set of "USA"

    That's the first appearance of the 2013 Fripp/Singleton remix of the whole concert (I've corrected my post above). The DVD also includes the 2005 Murphy remix and the 30th anniversary 'expanded' remastering of the original USA album.


    -The Collectable King Crimson Volume One
    Seems to be the 2005 Murphy remix of the whole concert.
    Last edited by ssully; 04-28-2017 at 11:54 AM.

  6. #6
    and FWIW I think Cross gets a bad rap. He's perfectly fine on most of the many, many other KC concerts we now have access to. That's him on the 'Starless and Bible Black' and 'Providence' and 'Trio' improvs of course, and they are classic. He didn't suddenly become a lousy musician at Asbury Park somehow.

  7. #7
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    Since 1975 we've had *4* different masterings or mixes of the original USA album.
    Just FTR, you've left out the half-speed mastered vinyl/cassette from circa 1983 (Discogs says 1987, but that's wrong).
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    Just FTR, you've left out the half-speed mastered vinyl/cassette from circa 1983 (Discogs says 1987, but that's wrong).
    ah, right, and I even own that, too

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    and FWIW I think Cross gets a bad rap. He's perfectly fine on most of the many, many other KC concerts we now have access to. That's him on the 'Starless and Bible Black' and 'Providence' and 'Trio' improvs of course, and they are classic. He didn't suddenly become a lousy musician at Asbury Park somehow.
    Absolutely,
    I love the sound be brought to the 72-74 band. I'd be interested to see what he'd bring to the band now. I enjoyed what he did with Stick Men on the Midori album.

  10. #10
    I loved the stripped down version, no overdubs, available from the K.C. Collectors Club. Something about it held my interest and not sure what. Maybe I liked that show without overdubs. There may have been editing on U.S.A., not sure, as most material on the collectors club felt untouched and extended.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    and FWIW I think Cross gets a bad rap. He's perfectly fine on most of the many, many other KC concerts we now have access to. That's him on the 'Starless and Bible Black' and 'Providence' and 'Trio' improvs of course, and they are classic. He didn't suddenly become a lousy musician at Asbury Park somehow.
    I know Fripp and possibly some others have talked about how tired the band was at the end of that tour. Coupled with the fact that Cross had already decided to quit (mentioned in the LTiA Boxed set notes I believe), he may have had more difficulty getting motivated than the others. Having listened extensively to a lot of the Spring/Summer '74 DGM releases - there are plenty of misfires (Wetton singing the wrong verse in Easy Money in Quebec, Fripp playing the Night Watch while the rest are playing Starless in Germany) by other band members. Chalk it up to being a job hazard of an improvising band.

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  12. #12
    Wasn't Cross fired?
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  13. #13
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    If I recall it, he left because the music on stage was so loud that there wasnt really any space for him.

  14. #14
    Again, going from the LTia liner notes, the band had agreed to fire him but he had also decided that he was going to quit anyway. That's likely the case, as Fripp mentioned something along the lines of Cross being very sensitive and not-really cut-out for the music industry.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    and FWIW I think Cross gets a bad rap. He's perfectly fine on most of the many, many other KC concerts we now have access to. That's him on the 'Starless and Bible Black' and 'Providence' and 'Trio' improvs of course, and they are classic. He didn't suddenly become a lousy musician at Asbury Park somehow.
    I always assumed that Eddie Jobson was called in to do the overdubs because Cross' playing didn't come through in the mix. The overdubs are very subtle. Since Cross had quit/been fired at that point it was probably not natural to ask him to do it. So how is the complete concert? I only have the original LP.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffo621 View Post
    Again, going from the LTia liner notes, the band had agreed to fire him but he had also decided that he was going to quit anyway. That's likely the case, as Fripp mentioned something along the lines of Cross being very sensitive and not-really cut-out for the music industry.
    IIRC, Fripp has also commented on the unsuitability of the violin's place in a band, or at least in the band that KC were at that time.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Enid View Post
    I loved the stripped down version, no overdubs, available from the K.C. Collectors Club. Something about it held my interest and not sure what. Maybe I liked that show without overdubs. There may have been editing on U.S.A., not sure, as most material on the collectors club felt untouched and extended.

    The only editing (change of length) of Asbury Park material on the original USA was the early fadeout of 'Easy Money' during Fripp's solo, and the omission of some superfluous fluff at the end of the "Asbury Park' improv. 'Larks II', 'Lament' and 'Exiles' were all full length.

    As far as mixing went, Cross was mixed out of 'Larks II' and his parts replaced by Jobson; he was mixed out of the 'Asbury Park' improv and replaced by...nothing. *That* is actually a 'stripped down' version. ;>

    Cross was also mixed out of '21st Century Schizoid Man', and replaced by Jobson, but that track was from the Providence show, not Asbury Park.
    Last edited by ssully; 05-19-2017 at 12:25 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffo621 View Post
    Again, going from the LTia liner notes, the band had agreed to fire him but he had also decided that he was going to quit anyway. That's likely the case, as Fripp mentioned something along the lines of Cross being very sensitive and not-really cut-out for the music industry.
    In the Great Deceiver box liner notes, Fripp's diaries say that the band had decided to fire Cross in June 1974 (Fripp and Wetton voted in favor of it, Bruford against) but Cross's essay from the early 90's claims that the band was going to do another U.S. tour and he decided not to do it, prompting them to record Red without him.

  19. #19
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    I believe Bruford wanted to retain Cross.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halmyre View Post
    Fripp has also commented on the unsuitability of the violin's place in a band...
    I'd agree with his assessment; Cross, imo, was essentially a vestigial organ in the body of KC. I'd have liked to have seen the return of McDonald, as was rumored (or some other sax player).
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  20. #20
    Just be thankful Cross (who I like in KC) wasn't around to prevent Fripp from playing the main theme of "Starless" on his electric guitar in the studio! Soooo much better than the violin doing it like in every other version.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    If I recall it, he left because the music on stage was so loud that there wasnt really any space for him.
    I like the Starless versions with him playing on it
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by trondis23 View Post
    I always assumed that Eddie Jobson was called in to do the overdubs because Cross' playing didn't come through in the mix.
    He was also a bit out of tune. A hazard of not always being able to hear oneself well in the onstage mix.

  23. #23
    Adding (for no particular reason) : I've always actually preferred the Cross-less 'Asbury Park' to the 'faithful' mix. But with the availability of the originals of the other tracks, I don't really hear why Fripp replaced Cross with Jobson on them.

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